The Broadcasting and Business side of the NRL.

[unapologetic pedant]

5 hours ago, DC77 said:

This entire post is personal opinion (and a biased one). 

Specifically which parts of the post are personal opinion? I agree I am biased (heavily), but the TV ratings are unvarnished fact.

[unapologetic pedant]

2 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

In Syd, SE Qld and WA (maybe all of NSW, QLD, WA and SA) the local AFL teams are all presented live on FTA. I would simply say, that is where fans go for their AFL fix. There is less reliance on Pay TV which would actually suggest that AFL fans watch less of other teams fixtures and as such being less the casual viewers that you think.

I would have thought that people who only watch their local team on TV are the casuals. Proof of the pudding would be if most Swans/Giants/Lions/Suns games went behind a paywall. How many extra subscriptions would be sold in Sydney and SEQ? I suspect not many.

 

2 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

 I have also theorised in the past that whilst ratings for the two sports across all TV is similar, there are more individual eyeballs watching AFL than NRL. Theory being, more RL fans will watch multiple fixtures a week than AFL. Of course that theory is totally unsubstantiated, but it’s one of only few theories I have as to why AFL continues to get significantly more TV income than NRL when the Pay TV viewing figures especially are in favour of NRL.

I agree that when everything is factored in, the best conclusion is that aggregate NRL/AFL TV ratings are neck and neck.

However, unlike you I still think this is qualitatively weighted in favour of NRL. The higher STB numbers have been matched in the last couple of years by the streaming figures. Which confirms that there are more people willing to pay to watch NRL on a screen than AFL. Plus, NRL misses out on higher ratings in WA and SA by having no local interest in the competition.

[The Rocket]

30 minutes ago, unapologetic pedant said:

I agree that when everything is factored in, the best conclusion is that aggregate NRL/AFL TV ratings are neck and neck.

The predominance of FTA as most Australians preferred medium for viewing television leads to a warped view of the significance of the advantage that afl have in that particular medium in overall viewing patterns. 

This is of course exacerbated by the murky world of PayTV viewing figures and the even murkier new world of on-line and BVOD viewing figures.

But at the end of the day the figures speak for themselves. Over the course of the 2021 regular season the NRL had 15 million more viewers than the afl.  Even taking out 10m for SOO, that leaves a 5 million advantage for League in a season of 200 games compared to the afls` 207 game season.

This also doesn`t allow for the fact that one of our teams home viewers are not even included in the total. Nor the estimated 1m people who follow League in N.Z.

In 2022 the NRL have reached an agreement with Foxtel to broadcast all 32 pre-season matches, this will only add to the NRL advantage. Pre-season matches already broadcast by the afl and included in their regular season/pre-finals cumulative total.

There is no getting away from it, if you take away the hype created by Channel 7 and the afl, and the misleading impression this gives, League is soundly outrating afl even with it often being its` own worst enemy, a FTA broadcaster that acts more often like a ball and chain than a cheerleader and not having the significant advantage of having teams in every capital city.

 

 

[DC77]

2 hours ago, unapologetic pedant said:

Specifically which parts of the post are personal opinion? I agree I am biased (heavily), but the TV ratings are unvarnished fact.

Aussie Rules has a bigger fanbase than the NRL. They have more members, and they have more people who go to games. More people who watch Aussie Rules on TV, are interested in Aussie Rules, than those who watch the NRL on TV, are interested in the NRL. The NRL has four times the number of “event” games than Aussie Rules, and they are able to garner casual viewers for these games who otherwise have no interest in RL. 

All of this is directly from the data, published in the fella’s book, which he explains in the podcast.

Your post is opinionated and not based on data. 

https://player.whooshkaa.com/episode/811618

So which football code is Australia's most popular - and why isn't it Rugby League??

[DC77]

5 hours ago, The Rocket said:

You`ve been run off the other forum, you might as well save your typing finger, I didn`t read that post, I`ve said all I have to say to you I`m not interested in exchanging posts with someone who can`t help having sly digs at League all the time. Take a hike.

Mature response.

i have no interest in Aussie Rules so I’m not fighting it’s corner in any battle with RL. I don’t see it declining the way you do, and as the most popular football code in Oz over 150 years after its creation it looks more than durable to withstand any changes (including an Asian influx).

 

[DC77]

Can only assume the responders haven’t listened to the author of code wars or the data accumulated. Another titbit,

The RL Origin games, are put on in an uncompetitive midweek time slot, the result of which it is able to garner casual viewers for the “events” who otherwise would not watch RL.

Because Aussie Rules has a higher % of fans who are solely interested in their sport than RL fans are with RL, Aussie Rules can garner strong ratings regardless of what it is up against, which is not the case with RL hence they will move games around as they did this year with the Melbourne Storm fixture,

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/sep/14/nrl-puts-rugby-league-back-in-its-box-by-appeasing-afl-with-finals-fixture-move

Aussie Rules has more solid foundations than RL. 

[unapologetic pedant]

55 minutes ago, DC77 said:

 More people who watch Aussie Rules on TV, are interested in Aussie Rules, than those who watch the NRL on TV, are interested in the NRL. 

You haven`t paid a blind bit of attention to the argument I made about the regular week-to-week balance between casual viewers on FTA and paying subscribers.

There is no point engaging with you.

[Sports Prophet]

21 hours ago, The Rocket said:

 

In 2022 the NRL have reached an agreement with Foxtel to broadcast all 32 pre-season matches, this will only add to the NRL advantage. Pre-season matches already broadcast by the afl and included in their regular season/pre-finals cumulative total.

 

That is great news. More games to watch and starting earlier in the season. That will help negate the one or two week start the AFL gets on League.

[Sports Prophet]

On another note, in the last week on the ABC Sports webpage, 2 stories about RL and 8 Aus Rules.

I’ll try not to make this a weekly update per the blowout scores

[Sports Prophet]

20 hours ago, DC77 said:

Can only assume the responders haven’t listened to the author of code wars or the data accumulated. Another titbit,

The RL Origin games, are put on in an uncompetitive midweek time slot, the result of which it is able to garner casual viewers for the “events” who otherwise would not watch RL.

Because Aussie Rules has a higher % of fans who are solely interested in their sport than RL fans are with RL, Aussie Rules can garner strong ratings regardless of what it is up against, which is not the case with RL hence they will move games around as they did this year with the Melbourne Storm fixture,

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/sep/14/nrl-puts-rugby-league-back-in-its-box-by-appeasing-afl-with-finals-fixture-move

Aussie Rules has more solid foundations than RL. 

I’ve read his book. Well three quarters through it. A very good read with a lot of quantitative and quantitative data.

[The Rocket]

56 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

I’ve read his book. Well three quarters through it. A very good read with a lot of quantitative and quantitative data.

I know I`m wasting my breath but why don`t you take your afl love-in over to Future-is League`s " Fumbleball`s Fear of Rugby League " thread. This is meant to be a thread where people can come and read articles and commentary in relation to the OP. Not for me to have to keep rebutting inane fumbleball propaganda.

It is very afl though, no international forum of their own, ride on the coat-tails of League. Bit like those afl adds they run on the Foxtel International Rugby League page I suppose.

But then I know, over there no one would read your posts. Bit sad really.

[Sports Prophet]

51 minutes ago, The Rocket said:

I know I`m wasting my breath but why don`t you take your afl love-in over to Future-is League`s " Fumbleball`s Fear of Rugby League " thread. This is meant to be a thread where people can come and read articles and commentary in relation to the OP. Not for me to have to keep rebutting inane fumbleball propaganda.

It is very afl though, no international forum of their own, ride on the coat-tails of League. Bit like those afl adds they run on the Foxtel International Rugby League page I suppose.

But then I know, over there no one would read your posts. Bit sad really.

It’s a book about the business of sport. Code Wars. Very specific to the Broadcasting and Business side of RL, per the thread title. Pick it up and give it a read.

I’m not sure any of my posts have been either supportive or dismissive of either AFL or NRL. A neutral position, usually based on fact unless I am stating opinion which is usually noted in my post.

[DC77]

1 hour ago, Sports Prophet said:

It’s a book about the business of sport. Code Wars. Very specific to the Broadcasting and Business side of RL, per the thread title. Pick it up and give it a read.

I’m not sure any of my posts have been either supportive or dismissive of either AFL or NRL. A neutral position, usually based on fact unless I am stating opinion which is usually noted in my post.

That’s a problem in RL, any neutral comment is seen as “an attack”. 

The other poster went on about subscribers (pay tv), continually overlooking the crux of the point (ie. the data) that Aussie Rules is more popular than RL. 

 

[John Drake]

1 hour ago, DC77 said:

That’s a problem in RL, any neutral comment is seen as “an attack”. 

The other poster went on about subscribers (pay tv), continually overlooking the crux of the point (ie. the data) that Aussie Rules is more popular than RL. 

 

This thread is titled: The Broadcasting and Business side of the NRL.

It was not intended to be a willy-waggling argument about its relative popularity to another sport.

Get back to the original subject of the thread.

Any more wanging on about AFL and you'll find your posting rights removed from this forum, which, in case you hadn't noticed, is dedicated to the discussion of Rugby League.

[unapologetic pedant]

1 hour ago, John Drake said:

This thread is titled: The Broadcasting and Business side of the NRL.

It was not intended to be a willy-waggling argument about its relative popularity to another sport.

Get back to the original subject of the thread.

Are we permitted to dissent when a moderator intervenes? If so, I disagree with the general thrust of the above rebuke.

I don`t think we can understand "The Broadcasting and Business side of the NRL" without reference to AFL. All the facts and figures are mutually benchmarked. On Aussie RL forums, their threads about TV deals, ratings, and coverage are replete with NRL/AFL comparisons.

AFL have far higher crowds and memberships. NRL is roughly level on aggregate TV ratings and out-rates AFL on platforms where payment is involved. Delving into these relative measures of popularity can reveal a lot about the strengths and weaknesses of Rugby League on and off the field.

In the particular case of DC77, I shan`t be responding any further to him on this topic because he makes no attempt to address any details that don`t fit his preferred narrative.

[DC77]

14 hours ago, John Drake said:

This thread is titled: The Broadcasting and Business side of the NRL.

It was not intended to be a willy-waggling argument about its relative popularity to another sport.

Get back to the original subject of the thread.

Any more wanging on about AFL and you'll find your posting rights removed from this forum, which, in case you hadn't noticed, is dedicated to the discussion of Rugby League.

John the comment you responded to, taken in isolation, looks like a “X is more popular than X”. But that isn’t the gist of it. It’s merely a follow on to a broader comment about differing viewership among the codes (I’ve linked the podcast on this). I’m done with the subject in any case but the podcast is a good listen for anyone that’s interested in the sporting landscape of another country.

[The Rocket]

Couple of pieces of news:

Avid Wests/Tigers fan and regular attendee at Leichardt new Premier of N.S.W. Dominic Perrotet has confirmed the State Government will push ahead with plans to up-grade at least three suburban Rugby League grounds at an expected cost of approximately $250m each. Presently the three most likely are Penrith, Brookvale and a new stadium in southwest Sydney at Liverpool.

Australian telecommunications giant Telstra and naming rights sponsor of the NRL has agreed to purchase Digicel, the largest mobile phone carrier across the Pacific in a $2.5b deal. It is believed the Australian company was offered cheap finance by the Australian Gov`t to prevent a possible take-over of the PNG based company by a Chinese Govt backed bid.

Hopefully this will see a continuation of the carriers sponsorship of Rugby League in that country.

The final figure is in for the 2021 Grand Final, 3 753 000 across all viewing platforms. Great result following on from a bumper finals series.

Seems that negotiations over the FTA deal have stalled over price. Stories circulating suggest that Ch.9 is offering $110m/ season with the NRL insisting on a minimum of $120m. A decision is expected soon.

 

 

[unapologetic pedant]

10 hours ago, The Rocket said:

Avid Wests/Tigers fan and regular attendee at Leichardt new Premier of N.S.W. Dominic Perrotet has confirmed the State Government will push ahead with plans to up-grade at least three suburban Rugby League grounds at an expected cost of approximately $250m each. Presently the three most likely are Penrith, Brookvale and a new stadium in southwest Sydney at Liverpool.

What happened to Kogarah?

Any ideas on how to get Sydney RL "fans" into these suburban grounds on a regular basis? Other than the local team winning all their games. My feeling on Kogarah and Brookvale is that they need a big League Tag push in the respective junior leagues.

And why Liverpool rather than Campbelltown? Cheaper to build anew rather than redevelop? The Tigers appear to be concentrating their junior efforts on the rapidly growing Macarthur Region and Group 6.

I`ve read reports that Newtown have had some success reviving the traditional suburban oval RL experience at Henson Park. This hallowed RL turf is the target of a rival sport. I shan`t mention which sport, lest the thread get locked amid a welter of "wanging willy-waggling". Personally, I`d be more worried about "waggling willy-wanging". We each have our distinctive pet hates.

[Sports Prophet]

Playing out of modern facilities with surplus ammenities will be a good start to getting people through the turnstiles.

I don’t think Kogarah was ever in line. Govt and NRL are looking to the future. One with Dragons in Wollongong and the Sharks in NSW Cup or interstate.

Personally, I think Penrith is a bad call. It’s not exactly the most affluent area that can pull the corporates in to pay for the facilities. Parra is down the road for a big game if they want it.

A new stadium in Loftus serving Sharks and Dragons in neutral(ish) territory for both could serve both existing clubs, their supporters and their corporates, as well as acting as a community sports precinct for one of Australia’s largest grassroots sports participation regions.

Liverpool can serve Wests and Bulldogs, rather than Campbelltown just serving Wests. 

[unapologetic pedant]

From the Brisbane Times -

"Stan Sport will play host to a three-week-long feast of international Rugby from Sunday following the news the streaming service has secured the rights to the 2021 Autumn Nations series.

A total of 20 matches will be broadcast, which includes every game of the Rugby Championship outfits Australia, New Zealand, South Africa and Argentina`s respective spring tours".

This has to be a typo. They must mean 2022.

[Sports Prophet]

6 hours ago, unapologetic pedant said:

From the Brisbane Times -

"Stan Sport will play host to a three-week-long feast of international Rugby from Sunday following the news the streaming service has secured the rights to the 2021 Autumn Nations series.

A total of 20 matches will be broadcast, which includes every game of the Rugby Championship outfits Australia, New Zealand, South Africa and Argentina`s respective spring tours".

This has to be a typo. They must mean 2022.

Not by the way I’m reading it. That will be the upcoming fixtures in the N Hem’ that feature fixtures with nations from the Rugby Championship. Pretty self explanatory really.

[unapologetic pedant]

8 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

Not by the way I’m reading it. That will be the upcoming fixtures in the N Hem’ that feature fixtures with nations from the Rugby Championship. Pretty self explanatory really.

I should have added an emoji. This one  claims to be sarcastic, but I`m not convinced. Maybe this would be better - . Some of these are so small, I can barely see what they`re supposed to be.

Had I included a line about brave Wallabies risking their health and safety coming to Covid Island, it might have been removed as political by a moderator.

Over on the thread that`s now locked you seemed to have got the hump. How badly?  or.

[unapologetic pedant]

After a period of quiet -

"NRL chief executive Andrew Abdo issues warning to Nine as TV rights talks reach critical point".

No elaboration. Just nebulous comments that the game won`t sell itself short.

An article appeared a couple of weeks ago detailing large falls in ratings across the whole of Channel Ten`s programming. Serious questions being asked whether three terrestrial commercial networks are sustainable long-term.

I still think a separate deal with 10 for one NRL game on Saturday nights could be mutually beneficial.

Nine apparently don`t want to put sport up against Seven`s AFL game in that slot. (apart from RU on their secondary channel) All the evidence indicates negligible impact on Fox League`s ratings when games are simulcast. And it would be a chance for Ten to produce a version of FTA coverage that would keep Nine honest.

[The Great Dane]

9 hours ago, unapologetic pedant said:

After a period of quiet -

"NRL chief executive Andrew Abdo issues warning to Nine as TV rights talks reach critical point".

No elaboration. Just nebulous comments that the game won`t sell itself short.

An article appeared a couple of weeks ago detailing large falls in ratings across the whole of Channel Ten`s programming. Serious questions being asked whether three terrestrial commercial networks are sustainable long-term.

I still think a separate deal with 10 for one NRL game on Saturday nights could be mutually beneficial.

Nine apparently don`t want to put sport up against Seven`s AFL game in that slot. (apart from RU on their secondary channel) All the evidence indicates negligible impact on Fox League`s ratings when games are simulcast. And it would be a chance for Ten to produce a version of FTA coverage that would keep Nine honest.

I really wish that ViacomCBS would go all in on the FTA rights, and then go hard for the streaming rights when they come available again.

Ten and Paramount+ need a major local sports product if they are going to be competitive, and the NRL desperately needs to excise the cancer that is Nine.

[The Rocket]

Australia`s fifth richest person and 215th richest person in the world has purchased a 25% stake in the South Sydney Rabbitohs.

Worth an estimated $10 billion dollars Mike Cannon-Brookes co-founder of Sydney based software company Atlassian has joined forces with Russel Crowe and James Packer, the latter being Australia`s 9th wealthiest person, to own a one quarter share of the Rabbitohs. Cannon-Brookes said of the purchase:

I feel super-excited, super-pumped,” Mr Cannon-Brookes told The Daily Telegraph.

“And a sense of responsibility — it’s a bit daunting. The responsibility to keep growing the legacy. It’s such a famous legacy club, it’s such an amazing story, it’s about continuing to write the next ­couple of chapters — or help write the next couple of chapters.”

Just a year ago, Mr Cannon-Brookes became the first Australian to own an NBA team after he took on a minority stake in the Utah Jazz.

“Hopefully I can bridge some connections (in the US) to see how other clubs and leagues run and there’s probably some lessons to be learned on how that can help bring better experiences to the members,” he said.

The article in full:

Mike Cannon-Brookes buys in to the Rabbitohs dream (theaustralian.com.au)