Sat 17 Jul: Challenge Cup Final: Castleford Tigers v St Helens KO 15:00 (BBC TV)

[Old Frightful]

8 hours ago, Dave T said:

I think we have been spoilt - the last 6 finals have all been excellent battles. 

Whilst the one immediately previous to those was just "excellent".

Every player deserves huge admiration after that game yesterday, incredible that they could serve that up in that sort of heat. I thought I did well walking to the pub in it.

Have to say I was shaking my head in disbelief at the young lass trying to sing Abide with me and God save the Queen. Not blaming her, whoever put her in that position needs a good slap. The huge roar at the end helped as it brought me back to reality when I was actually expecting Simon Cowell to start analysing her performance.

That the game was such a terrific spectacle for as long as it was again is credit to the players. I was hoping Cas might do it and it looked very promising up to half time but the early part of the second 40 mins did for them.

Where has this bloke been?

 

[fieldofclothofgold]

Congratulations to St Helens and well played Castleford for contributing to a great game which deserved a full stadium. 

[Hela Wigmen]

Bearing in mind I haven’t watched it back yet, my initial thoughts are that it was the old cliché of a game of two halves. Once we scored our first try we sparked Cas into life and every time they attacked they were a threat with them throwing the ball around and Evalds’ pace. He was also deservedly the Lance Todd winner.

At half time I thought they had our measure but then the intervention of Jack Welsby especially and big shifts from Matty Lees, Morgan Knowles and James Roby in the second half was the big difference. That was the tenth time this year we’ve kept a side scoreless in either half, which is some stat really. 

We we’re sat in a neutral area closer to the Cas fans and they were all very gracious and congratulated us. Good club Cas. 

[Harry Stottle]

I am totally neutral by way of the two teams competing the final so no axe to grind with whoever won, but I can't help but feel that the referee spoiled what was a great even contest by suddenly awarding completely and totally innocuous free kicks, it took all the momentum out of the game and in my opinion favoured one team much more than the other.

I am not saying it was done with any premeditation by Mr Moore, but this is show piece event, the game should be allowed to flow and the player's should be the centre of attention, not the official which I do believe he acheived more screen time than any individual player the longer the game went on.

Just my opinion.

[Dave T]

50 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

I am totally neutral by way of the two teams competing the final so no axe to grind with whoever won, but I can't help but feel that the referee spoiled what was a great even contest by suddenly awarding completely and totally innocuous free kicks, it took all the momentum out of the game and in my opinion favoured one team much more than the other.

I am not saying it was done with any premeditation by Mr Moore, but this is show piece event, the game should be allowed to flow and the player's should be the centre of attention, not the official which I do believe he acheived more screen time than any individual player the longer the game went on.

Just my opinion.

Whilst the penalties were frustrating, I do think they came as a result of Cas blowing and struggling with the physical battle. It was tough, but difficult to ignore these infringements. 

[Waynebennettswinger]

59 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

I am totally neutral by way of the two teams competing the final so no axe to grind with whoever won, but I can't help but feel that the referee spoiled what was a great even contest by suddenly awarding completely and totally innocuous free kicks, it took all the momentum out of the game and in my opinion favoured one team much more than the other.

I am not saying it was done with any premeditation by Mr Moore, but this is show piece event, the game should be allowed to flow and the player's should be the centre of attention, not the official which I do believe he acheived more screen time than any individual player the longer the game went on.

Just my opinion.

One you’re entitled to. FWIW I think the ref did ok but my team won so I am bound to be happier….pretty sure the penalty count was 6-4 in favour of Saints with the six agains at 2-2, personally wasn’t scratching my head at any of the calls either way although I did think a penalty could have been called against my team at least once when it wasn’t.  Moore was happy enough to go to the video ref when he needed unlike the arrogant ignorance of this facility by previous final refs. 
If anything the video ref took way too long that would be my only gripe. 
 

Fair assessment from Dave T above that Cas got pulled as they were tiring.

Overall really enjoyable final. Cas took their chances superbly first half but were worn out when Saints clicked. There’s a lot to be said for patient build up but Saints went into panic mode after the first try and Fages had a shocker. Welsby came on and was excellent IMHO, Saints calmed down and just wore Cas out in the end.

Evalds the right call, he is such a danger. Cas can be proud of their efforts.

There may yet be a Grand Final to come but this could be the end of an era for Saints depending who comes and goes. Lots of Saints fans grumble about Kyle Amor but I was very pleased to see him get over, he never lacks in effort. Was told that he didn’t have a deal a few years back and begged to stay, working harder than ever…Grand Finals and a Challenge Cup have followed with a try at Wembley. If he retires or moves on then he’ll have bowed out a happy man

 

[DavidM]

Is Evalds a shout for the WC squad , he’s been quality for some time ?

[Harry Stottle]

10 minutes ago, DavidM said:

Is Evalds a shout for the WC squad , he’s been quality for some time ?

He should be David.

[Hela Wigmen]

17 minutes ago, DavidM said:

Is Evalds a shout for the WC squad , he’s been quality for some time ?

I think it’s going to be tough to usurp Tomkins for him. There’s the element of trust between Wane and Tomkins having worked together before and Tomkins himself is having a great year too. 

I’m sure he’ll qualify for Ireland based on being called Niall and once drinking a Guinness, mind. 

[Gates1]

On reflection.

Good game, thought everyone involved made it a good occasion from players to fans.

Looks to be a bit of debate from some Cas fans on social media about the Roby try.  For me it was a 50/50 call and no problem with the decision.  Cas should have a) caught the ball or b) scrambled better.

As a Cas fan didnt expect to win, but it's the hope that kills you .  Looked to be in with a good shout at half time but personally felt we should have set up for a drop goal at the end of the half two scores would have put Saints under alot more pressure 2nd half.  Ultimately the best team won though.

[Chris22]

Thought the first half was a magnificent contest and the second half not so. I haven't watched it back (and was very nervous throughout) but I didn't think it was a classic, mainly due to the stop start nature, especially of the second half. Absolutely no criticism of the players for that at all though. They both gave it everything and the conditions were absolutely stifling. How on earth they played and to such a high standard in that heat I do not know.

Castleford's first try was outstanding and I loved to see a side play open, expansive rugby in such a big game. Half time came at a very good time for us as if Castleford had extended their lead to two scores, we were in big trouble, even a drop goal may have changed the dynamics.

I have looked at Roby's try and think the decision was wrong and that Grace jumped from touch. You win some, you lose some, as we did with Knowles' no try in 2019. I would be annoyed if I was a Cas fan but I'm not sure you can lose a game by 14 points (as we did in 2019) and argue that one call lost you the match.

We were far better in the second half and more composed. We got back to doing what we do well, led by Paasi, who was magnificent and game changing.

A fantastic occasion to have 40,000 at Wembley. All fans that I saw conducting themselves brilliantly and I heard a number of police officers comparing favourably our fans behaviour to the scenes at the Euro 2020 final last week. That's something we should be really proud of as a sport.

[Chris22]

Also Jack Welsby was outstanding. To come off the bench and be unexpectedly asked to play at scrum half then assist the game-changing try is special. I don't necessarily think it's helpful to overhype a young player but this lad's potential is huge.

[Gates1]

16 minutes ago, Saint 1 said:

All the Cas fans I came across were great. 

Similarly Saints, Leeds, Wakey, etc! fans I came across and we had a drink with.

As someone who was losing a bit of interest in the game.  The whole atmosphere reminded me of everything I love about about it (despite the result).

[Gates1]

16 minutes ago, Chris22 said:

Thought the first half was a magnificent contest and the second half not so. I haven't watched it back (and was very nervous throughout) but I didn't think it was a classic, mainly due to the stop start nature, especially of the second half. Absolutely no criticism of the players for that at all though. They both gave it everything and the conditions were absolutely stifling. How on earth they played and to such a high standard in that heat I do not know.

Castleford's first try was outstanding and I loved to see a side play open, expansive rugby in such a big game. Half time came at a very good time for us as if Castleford had extended their lead to two scores, we were in big trouble, even a drop goal may have changed the dynamics.

I have looked at Roby's try and think the decision was wrong and that Grace jumped from touch. You win some, you lose some, as we did with Knowles' no try in 2019. I would be annoyed if I was a Cas fan but I'm not sure you can lose a game by 14 points (as we did in 2019) and argue that one call lost you the match.

We were far better in the second half and more composed. We got back to doing what we do well, led by Paasi, who was magnificent and game changing.

A fantastic occasion to have 40,000 at Wembley. All fans that I saw conducting themselves brilliantly and I heard a number of police officers comparing favourably our fans behaviour to the scenes at the Euro 2020 final last week. That's something we should be really proud of as a sport.

Agree with everything above.  Other than the Roby try, I actually think it's as close to a 50/50 decision as you will ever get, so I dont feel it was a wrong decision as such.  Although i dont like the on field call element.  I think if the ref genuinely doesnt know he shouldnt have to guess .

[Damien]

8 hours ago, Old Frightful said:

Where has this bloke been?

 

I love to read comments like that. Unfortunately though one of his replies sums up the problems the sport faces when it comes to capitalising on that interest. For too many neutrals they are just too far removed from what the game does on a weekly basis:

Also you then get the normal insecure replies from cretins going on about stereotypes and moaning that the fev v York game wasn't shown.

[meast]

21 hours ago, hindle xiii said:

I like Welsby, he has great utility value.

Jack or Young Welsby?

[Gates1]

8 minutes ago, Damien said:

I love to read comments like that. Unfortunately though one of his replies sums up the problems the sport faces when it comes to capitalising on that interest. For too many neutrals they are just too far removed from what the game does on a weekly basis:

Also you then get the normal insecure replies from cretins going on about stereotypes and moaning that the fev v York game wasn't shown.

I'd love to see the rl try and co-ordinate a social media surge.

Lots of high profile people comment on RL (footballers, boxers, even politicians).  Most with 10x more social media followers then any rl club.

Personally I'd have a great promo put together for the grand final, invite them all and ask them to retweet the promo (on the same day).  Aswell.as asking all fans and spo sponsors to do the same.

[meast]

5 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

I am totally neutral by way of the two teams competing the final so no axe to grind with whoever won, but I can't help but feel that the referee spoiled what was a great even contest by suddenly awarding completely and totally innocuous free kicks, it took all the momentum out of the game and in my opinion favoured one team much more than the other.

I am not saying it was done with any premeditation by Mr Moore, but this is show piece event, the game should be allowed to flow and the player's should be the centre of attention, not the official which I do believe he acheived more screen time than any individual player the longer the game went on.

Just my opinion.

That tends to happen when one team is struggling, either on the scoreboard, on possession/territory and certainly energy levels, the team on top usually benefit more due the nature of the opposition doing anything they can to stop the flow.

Nothing to see here, I thought he had an excellent game and I think he's a very good referee.

[Futtocks]

5 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

I am totally neutral by way of the two teams competing the final so no axe to grind with whoever won, but I can't help but feel that the referee spoiled what was a great even contest by suddenly awarding completely and totally innocuous free kicks, it took all the momentum out of the game and in my opinion favoured one team much more than the other.

I am not saying it was done with any premeditation by Mr Moore, but this is show piece event, the game should be allowed to flow and the player's should be the centre of attention, not the official which I do believe he acheived more screen time than any individual player the longer the game went on.

Just my opinion.

Of course, if the referee had allowed the game to "flow" and it still favoured the same team, you wouldn't call for more stringent application of the laws of the game, would you?

[Rupert Prince]

To Mr Stottle (My reply got lost)

There were two errors, and the first was probably driven by the second.

The first error was a clear high tackle on the Cas player just on half time.  Cas played on and ended up 30 yards back.  A clear error by the ref who should have called play back and Cas would have kicked 2 points.

Those 2 points would have been a shadow on the game in the latter part of the game for Saints thinking .  Cas' mistake was doing several short kick offs - especially the first.

With within a 6 point game they ought to have gone deep to keep Saints away from their own line.  

Given the controversy over the disciplinary last week i find it absurd not to have seen the former penalty - and a yellow card - not given yesterday.

[JonM]

51 minutes ago, Gates1 said:

As someone who was losing a bit of interest in the game.  The whole atmosphere reminded me of everything I love about about it (despite the result).

Yes, one of those days where you'd be happy to have brought friends and family and you just know that anyone would've come away with a really positive opinion. The game was excellent, saints, cas and neutral fans were happily chatting away to each other where I was sat (although it was amusing to hear Saints fans moaning for the first 50 minutes about individual players, the coach, the referee, the rules...) Same walking round Wembley before and after - lots of happy folk mingling, chatting with the police and stewards etc. 

I wonder how much the reduced capacity affects our perception. Previous years, the posts on here the next day would've all been about the empty seats. When you have an excuse for half the seats being empty, the focus is on how great the matchday experience was and how enjoyable the game itself was.

[JonM]

13 minutes ago, meast said:

Nothing to see here, I thought he had an excellent game and I think he's a very good referee.

Yes, I thought he got pretty much everything right, top refereeing performance by a very good referee. Nice also to see that there was no protesting or backchat to the ref - Saints were pretty bad for that a couple of seasons back.

[Josef K]

On 17/07/2021 at 15:02, Roy Haggerty said:

Oh dear. Abide with me not the very best version I’ve heard. Still, can’t say I’d have much voice if I was stood there trying to sing it in front of 45000 people. 

What happened to all the singalongs with Brucie, Tarby, Cribbinsy, Glovery, Cliffy, they were meant to have been great. Jonny Vegas should’ve sang the National Anthem. 

[Josef K]

23 hours ago, Davo5 said:

Another Saints player miraculously passes a HIA in a big final after staggering around the pitch.

They must’ve been using the same Witch Doctor that Cas used too get everyone fighting fit for the final. I don’t think a doctor, whether a witch or not would put a players health in jeopardy just for a game.

[Old Frightful]

2 hours ago, Damien said:

Also you then get the normal insecure replies from cretins going on about stereotypes and moaning that the fev v York game wasn't shown.

I replied pointing out it was on the red button for all and sundry to enjoy.

I presume I'm correct in that?, landlord of the Whalebone sorted it and he doesn't have Sky.