The World Cup goes ahead

[The Frying Scotsman]

10 hours ago, The Rocket said:

When he got picked for the first time for Oz, 9/11 occurred and there was talk a tour to England would have to be cancelled, when asked whether he was worried about flying to Europe Rylesy said " I don`t care where we play them, I`ll play them in Afghanistan if I have to". I was a big fan of his before that remark, and bigger after. 

Sadly the same couldn't be said for Robbie O'Davis, who when asked about the same tour, said that the problem with England is, there are a lot of terrorist targets over there, "like Buckingham Palace, and the Eiffel Tower....."

And we wonder why they call us "Mungoes".

[Jim from Oz]

10 minutes ago, The Frying Scotsman said:

Sadly the same couldn't be said for Robbie O'Davis, who when asked about the same tour, said that the problem with England is, there are a lot of terrorist targets over there, "like Buckingham Palace, and the Eiffel Tower....."

And we wonder why they call us "Mungoes".

From memory, Shane Webcke pulled out of the tour after the terrorist attacks, saying he wanted armed guards at the airport for the kangaroos arrival and when that wasn’t forthcoming he pulled out.

[Jim from Oz]

If anything is to derail the RLWC, this will:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/16/englands-covid-unlocking-a-threat-to-the-world-experts-say?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

[Exiled Wiganer]

9 hours ago, Jim from Oz said:

If anything is to derail the RLWC, this will:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/16/englands-covid-unlocking-a-threat-to-the-world-experts-say?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

This is, at every level, complete nonsense. The former Manchester Guardian’s approach to the UK is essentially to wage war on it, and to corral any anti UK opinion it can find and pass it off as gospel. It is sad to see. 

There is compelling logic behind the UK approach - we have high levels of antibodies, we have fantastic vaccines (and it looks as if the Oxford vaccine offers life long protection via T cell stimulation), and we have lead the world in developing treatments for this. We have to have an exit wave to exit this, and the best time to do so is 1) during summer, and 2) while we have a highly transmissible variant against which the vaccines are hugely effective. This variant is keeping at bay the nastier ones. By October/November, Covid will be as much of a risk as a bad flu year - horrific, absolutely tragic - but one which we can and have to live with. As an economy and as a society we cannot choose lockdown and restrictions on people’s ability to be educated and earn a living (or afford to carry on paying for people to be furloughed, as that stores up infinite trouble further down the track). 

The timing for the World Cup is pretty much perfect, long enough for the exit wave to fall away (and by some estimates that is already beginning) and prior to any final deep winter pinch point. 

[dkw]

10 hours ago, Jim from Oz said:

If anything is to derail the RLWC, this will:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/16/englands-covid-unlocking-a-threat-to-the-world-experts-say?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

Don't quote the guardian for gods sake, it's a terrible load of old ######. 

[Mr Frisky]

22 hours ago, Southerner said:

There’d always be an asterisk against the winner. 

Not really - if you take the 1980 Olympics as an example when you look at say Alan Wells- he is shown as 100m Olympic champion- not an asterisk in sight.

He won, he got the medal and his name in the record books! - can you name some of the American sprinter who may have beat him? - I can't but we all know who won.

The joy of the WC is usually the smaller nations anyway thats why only in a WC can you get say 10k for Scotland V Italy  - its an event and the wider public won't care the Aussies arnt there.

[JonM]

12 hours ago, welshmagpie said:

All Southern Hemisphere teams on a chartered flight from Sydney (Oct 14-15).

Better hope there's no covid cases on that plane!

[JonM]

47 minutes ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

This is, at every level, complete nonsense. The former Manchester Guardian’s approach to the UK is essentially to wage war on it, and to corral any anti UK opinion it can find and pass it off as gospel. It is sad to see. 

The same story is in the Torygraph, the Evening Standard, the Daily Mail and other tabloids, if you prefer your "news" with a right-wing bias.

[Tommygilf]

I really don't think Aussie RL fans get how small time the Kangaroos are as a "draw" over here in the UK. The Kiwis, as a "New Zealand Rugby team" have just as much if not more kudos than their Australian counterparts. The Kangaroos play so infrequently that they have virtually zero recognition here.

Australia don't show up? As near as makes no difference nobody cares.

Australia only play with UK/France based players? Absolutely fine, a minute fraction of a niche actually know/care who from the NRL will make the Aussie team. As a side note if anything that would likely make the Pacific and other heritage reliant teams stronger too.

Its a shame that the Kangaroos stock has fallen so low, but that is a reflection of the decline of prioritising International RL in recent times.

[Exiled Wiganer]

1 hour ago, JonM said:

The same story is in the Torygraph, the Evening Standard, the Daily Mail and other tabloids, if you prefer your "news" with a right-wing bias.

(I am sorry, but they are unrelated points, entirely. The context and presentation is entirely different - it is an opinion, but only one of a number, and while weight should be given to it, the UK has a massive body of its own evidence to draw upon. To take another example from earlier today, the SA variant is a worry because the vaccines are LESS effective against them - they are still remarkably effective, however. This was presented as the vaccines being INEFFECTIVE in the Guardian. That isn’t politics, that is dangerously ignorant. It suits the “UK’s past, present and future is dreadful” approach, from this once great paper. I still buy it most days, of course. It’s what Andy B would want me to do. ) 

Anyway, sorry about the rant, and I respect all and any genuinely held views to the contrary. My point was ultimately a narrow one around the logic behind the position we are taking, and why that is good news for the World Cup, as opposed to 8 months of lockdown or attempting the same thing in the autumn, either one of which approach would have been disastrous to us. 

 

 

[The Frying Scotsman]

2 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

The Kiwis, as a "New Zealand Rugby team" have just as much if not more kudos than their Australian counterparts. 

I get what you are saying, but this part really isn't true.

The vast majority of people who turn up at Rugby League international games, are Rugby League fans.

The non-RL general public in the UK don't really turn out in any numbers, as the game is so comparatively invisible to the public consciousness. As such... The fans know that the Australians have far more kudos... Just take a quick look at the thread on here who think we should bring back those old fashioned 1980s style Kangaroo Ashes tours.

 

[Dave T]

3 minutes ago, The Frying Scotsman said:

I get what you are saying, but this part really isn't true.

The vast majority of people who turn up at Rugby League international games, are Rugby League fans.

The non-RL general public in the UK don't really turn out in any numbers, as the game is so comparatively invisible to the public consciousness. As such... The fans know that the Australians have far more kudos... Just take a quick look at the thread on here who think we should bring back those old fashioned 1980s style Kangaroo Ashes tours.

 

 

For an ordinary series there is some truth in that - the Aussie have generally returned bigger crowds than the Kiwis, but that is because we have been poor at getting the new fans into grounds. We do it at some grounds like in London and we got 67k in for Eng v NZ in 2013, and 10k higher for the Kiwis than when we played the Aussies at Olympic Stadium. 

In 2008, England v NZ got a higher crowd for the WC semi than for the Aussie semi. In 2013 the Kiwis were a bigger draw than the Aussies, and in 2017 the Aussies were hardly a draw, with the likes of Tonga being a bigger draw. 

When we move outside of our normal fan base, which is what an Rlwc should be doing, the Aussies are not a great draw. 

I'm not ruling it out, but an Aussie group game isn't on my must see list. 

[Gomersall]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/rugby-league-warriors-coach-nathan-brown-questions-decision-to-proceed-with-world-cup-as-planned/PVEEBFJ246ZNBAWELK6ES2ULJ4/

[Tommygilf]

56 minutes ago, The Frying Scotsman said:

I get what you are saying, but this part really isn't true.

The vast majority of people who turn up at Rugby League international games, are Rugby League fans.

The non-RL general public in the UK don't really turn out in any numbers, as the game is so comparatively invisible to the public consciousness. As such... The fans know that the Australians have far more kudos... Just take a quick look at the thread on here who think we should bring back those old fashioned 1980s style Kangaroo Ashes tours.

I mean to go to the effort to actually turn up to an RL game means by definition you must have at least a passing interest in RL.

In broader terms, for the national side we get a far broader fanbase in my experience. That is the best thing about it and is why it has to be the vehicle for expansion of the game in terms of awareness etc. I'm glad the national side doesn't require people to be league one season card carrying members. I'm glad it has a more casual appeal. 

I think you've misread what I've said. The Kangaroos have kudos amongst the relatively small, and shrinking, RL fanbase from pre 1996. That they are often amongst the loudest or most influential figures in the game or on boards like this one doesn't make it true for the rest of the country however - or for younger RL fans like myself. 

The best example of this, and what really hammered it home for me, was the Kiwis vs England at the Olympic stadium London in front of 45k in 2015. 1 year later in the 4 nations against Australia (a nation with a far larger diaspora and international RL reputation in a more marketed competition locally), 35k crowd. That 10k difference was genuinely shocking to me when I was sat at the second game until it dawned on me that the between RLs total lack of visibility, Australia not being as well associated with "rugby" as New Zealand, and the real tragedy that the Kangaroos have zero cut through as an elite sporting institution like they should imo. That is similarly reflected in the decline of the GB side in the minds of the Australian public too.

It would have been interesting to see how the cancelled 2020 ashes series would have gone.

[Mr Frisky]

1 hour ago, The Frying Scotsman said:

I get what you are saying, but this part really isn't true.

The vast majority of people who turn up at Rugby League international games, are Rugby League fans.

The non-RL general public in the UK don't really turn out in any numbers, as the game is so comparatively invisible to the public consciousness. As such... The fans know that the Australians have far more kudos... Just take a quick look at the thread on here who think we should bring back those old fashioned 1980s style Kangaroo Ashes tours.

 

 

Not really true for a WC though is it.

If you take the Scotland games at workington in 2013 there was about 8000 for both games ( as the ground holds 10k anyone who was at those games will probably tell you there was 10k+ in the ground...

The only 2 clubs within 1.5 hours drive are Haven and Town and between them they average around 1800 - 2500 a game.

Where do you think the other 5 to 6000 or so were from?

Most were people who don't attend normal RL matches and most didn't support the teams on show but they attended the occasion - a World Cup in West Cumbria!

I also stood with dozens of Scottish RU fans who came down for the games on coaches - mainly from the Scottish Borders and for most those were their first ever RL matches and they were amazed by how good the games were.

Yes a lot of fans who go to WC matches are existing fans but you can say that about most World cups - but there is no doubt a WC can draw out casual fans or people who know nothing about the game.

[DavidM]

1 hour ago, Mr Frisky said:

Not really true for a WC though is it.

If you take the Scotland games at workington in 2013 there was about 8000 for both games ( as the ground holds 10k anyone who was at those games will probably tell you there was 10k+ in the ground...

The only 2 clubs within 1.5 hours drive are Haven and Town and between them they average around 1800 - 2500 a game.

Where do you think the other 5 to 6000 or so were from?

Most were people who don't attend normal RL matches and most didn't support the teams on show but they attended the occasion - a World Cup in West Cumbria!

I also stood with dozens of Scottish RU fans who came down for the games on coaches - mainly from the Scottish Borders and for most those were their first ever RL matches and they were amazed by how good the games were.

Yes a lot of fans who go to WC matches are existing fans but you can say that about most World cups - but there is no doubt a WC can draw out casual fans or people who know nothing about the game.

Yep

[Rawschach]

The Kangaroos should be the biggest Rugby team on the planet - incredible skilled athletes and an absolute machine at winning games.  Being so good is seen as a positive in other sports.

It says a lot about our sport (and the overall attitude to international matches) that the view on here is that it doesn't matter that much if they turn up or not for the World Cup.  

I prefer watching England / GB against the Kiwis because we have more chance of winning.  I find Australia hard to watch as they are too professional and still win even when playing badly (with the odd dodgy decision here and there)

If they do send a slightly weakened team then I would be happy with that (not a team based around players who play in England as that would be daft) but I suspect the press would be all over it and talk the tournament down. The actual games will get little publicity.

 

[GeordieSaint]

1 hour ago, Rawschach said:

It says a lot about our sport (and the overall attitude to international matches) that the view on here is that it doesn't matter that much if they turn up or not for the World Cup.

The issue isn’t we don’t want them. Of course we do. We want to beat the best. It’s the attitude that’s the issue. The attitude that their pre-season games are more important than the biggest competition in the game. That’s why people are basically same screw them… we’ll do it without them. 

[Scubby]

5 hours ago, Gomersall said:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/rugby-league-warriors-coach-nathan-brown-questions-decision-to-proceed-with-world-cup-as-planned/PVEEBFJ246ZNBAWELK6ES2ULJ4/

We love having rep players. Brown loses all credibility to talk about International RL with this statement?

"For us as a club, to see most of our squad turn up in February next year, when we're a new club as it is with a lot of new players and being on the road for two years straight, I would have thought it's not the right move for the Warriors."

What about the players who cannot play State of Origin FFS?

[Rawschach]

Yes I agree with you on that GeordieSaint.  That is what I was getting at - it is the NRL and the clubs with their narrow minded approach that has led to the Kangeroos not being a bigger presence in the World

It certainly is not about ability

[Rawschach]

2 minutes ago, Scubby said:

We love having rep players. Brown loses all credibility to talk about International RL with this statement?

"For us as a club, to see most of our squad turn up in February next year, when we're a new club as it is with a lot of new players and being on the road for two years straight, I would have thought it's not the right move for the Warriors."

What about the players who cannot play State of Origin FFS?

So narrow minded.  The Kiwis doing well surely rubs off on the Warriors and generates interest and money.

You would have hoped someone who has coached over here would have a bit more of an open minded view 

[Scubby]

6 minutes ago, Rawschach said:

So narrow minded.  The Kiwis doing well surely rubs off on the Warriors and generates interest and money.

You would have hoped someone who has coached over here would have a bit more of an open minded view 

Yes, these guy don't have State of Origin. They get third party sponsorships and endorsements for being international players. Brown has just shown a total lack of understanding for the culture within his squad.

[Big Picture]

Tournament CEO Jon Dutton on the 5Live Rugby League Podcast.

[RayCee]

There was a man named Jed who was known in his town for throwing a great party. However, with Covid, he had to abide by the rules and when it was OK to hold it, he started organising one. One guest in particular was always welcome, Oswald, a well known local with celebrity status and when there always delivered.

The problem with Oswald (Ozzie to the locals) was he had a busy schedule and when invited was never enthusiastic. He had to check his diary but was sure it would not be possible. The invitation was left with him anyway. 

When other invitees heard about his vacillating yet again, it put them in two camps. Some thought the party should be cancelled until it suited Ozzie. Others thought if they did that, when would it suit him? He was always too busy in his own little world. Let's party anyway. Jed the host decided to go ahead regardless and leave it over to Ozzie.

[Gomersall]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/rugby-league-why-new-zealand-might-skip-the-rugby-league-world-cup/KPRHR47WBBCADDNAHY6UG5UJJQ/