BBC CC Preview

[Eddie]

Not sure if this impossibly Northern stereotyping does the game’s profile much good, I can’t imagine it enticing any Southerners to watch for a start. If they ignored the mining and working class elements and showed more exciting clips of past finals it would be better. 
 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/rugby-league/57855672

[Phil]

3 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Not sure if this impossibly Northern stereotyping does the game’s profile much good, I can’t imagine it enticing any Southerners to watch for a start. If they ignored the mining and working class elements and showed more exciting clips of past finals it would be better. 
 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/rugby-league/57855672

Oh dear, I’m as proud a northerner as there is but this is just unimaginative stereotyping 

[Dunbar]

To be honest, I can't see a lot wrong with it.  Yes, references to northern towns (which they are) and some white rose, red rose stuff (bit cliched) but other than that I saw footage of tough, skillful players and passionate fans and at the end a reference to a 'Northern Invasion'.

I think we can get a little bit hung up on this stuff.  The Challenge Cup final is 'the' day that the sport and the fans of Rugby League take over London, that is what it is famous for and that is why it is a special occasion.  I would use it rather than challenge it.

[soulboy]

4 minutes ago, Phil said:

Oh dear, I’m as proud a northerner as there is but this is just unimaginative stereotyping 

Those tired graphics are now on for the 1895 final add that to the CC preview, it really is cheap and insulting. 

[Gerrumonside ref]

Being from northern England is the greatest thing in the world.

We have a proud heritage.

I don’t wish to pretend that my fore fathers were eating lah de dah McFlurries all day long to curry favour with others!

[Eddie]

3 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

To be honest, I can't see a lot wrong with it.  Yes, references to northern towns (which they are) and some white rose, red rose stuff (bit cliched) but other than that I saw footage of tough, skillful players and passionate fans and at the end a reference to a 'Northern Invasion'.

I think we can get a little bit hung up on this stuff.  The Challenge Cup final is 'the' day that the sport and the fans of Rugby League take over London, that is what it is famous for and that is why it is a special occasion.  I would use it rather than challenge it.

If it was Harlequins v Saracens in their cup they wouldn’t show footage of Pearly Queens played to a backdrop of Chas n Dave though. 

[Tommygilf]

Its Castleford vs St Helens, I really don't see what is wrong with the promo - its perfectly factual. If Hull City played Newcastle in the FA cup final I imagine they would do something similar about dockyards etc.

Ultimately you can only work with what you've got, and what they have is Castleford vs St Helens. I hope they make a bit about the c. 11 nations represented in the two teams this afternoon. 

To me that promo doesn't scream "northern game for northern people". Its just authenticating and highlighting the heritage of the two towns who are now at the largest stadium in the country.

[Eddie]

9 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Its Castleford vs St Helens, I really don't see what is wrong with the promo - its perfectly factual. If Hull City played Newcastle in the FA cup final I imagine they would do something similar about dockyards etc.

Ultimately you can only work with what you've got, and what they have is Castleford vs St Helens. I hope they make a bit about the c. 11 nations represented in the two teams this afternoon. 

To me that promo doesn't scream "northern game for northern people". Its just authenticating and highlighting the heritage of the two towns who are now at the largest stadium in the country.

Yeah if it was Newcastle v Hull they would, whereas if it was Southampton v Bristol City they wouldn’t - it’s just grim northern stereotyping. Maybe it’s because I’ve moved away from the NoE that I see it differently to if I hadn’t, it makes me cringe though. 

[Gerrumonside ref]

1 minute ago, Eddie said:

Yeah if it was Newcastle v Hull they would, whereas if it was Southampton v Bristol City they wouldn’t - it’s just grim northern stereotyping. Maybe it’s because I’ve moved away from the NoE that I see it differently to if I hadn’t, it makes me cringe though. 

So how should it be advertised then?

[Gerrumonside ref]

2 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Yeah if it was Newcastle v Hull they would, whereas if it was Southampton v Bristol City they wouldn’t - it’s just grim northern stereotyping. Maybe it’s because I’ve moved away from the NoE that I see it differently to if I hadn’t, it makes me cringe though. 

This seems a rather pompous way of saying, “if only you lived in the heaving metropolis of, erm, Norfolk...you would understand how stupid we all look!”

[Eddie]

2 minutes ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

This seems a rather pompous way of saying, “if only you lived in the heaving metropolis of, erm, Norfolk...you would understand how stupid we all look!”

Not in the slightest, I’m saying that as I often hear northern stereotype comments from southerners it probably grates more on me than if I still lived up north where I wouldn’t ever hear those comments. 

[Dunbar]

7 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Maybe it’s because I’ve moved away from the NoE that I see it differently to if I hadn’t, it makes me cringe though. 

I have also moved away from the North of England and maybe that is why I am OK with it. It is a heritage that I am proud of.

[Eddie]

6 minutes ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

So how should it be advertised then?

Just about how exciting the game is and maybe a bit about Powell leaving and Saints being the champions, you know the usual sort of stuff. 

[Gerrumonside ref]

1 minute ago, Eddie said:

Not in the slightest, I’m saying that as I often hear northern stereotype comments from southerners it probably grates more on me than if I still lived up north where I wouldn’t ever hear those comments. 

People travel and encounter people from other parts of the country.

We are not living in medieval times.

 

[Gerrumonside ref]

2 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Just about how exciting the game is and maybe a bit about Powell leaving and Saints being the champions, you know the usual sort of stuff. 

I’d doubt those same Southerners would have a clue about either.

Yes, I agree at some point you’ve got to focus on the game itself and purely that.

But as an opening salvo to a neutral audience I see no problem with setting the scene and establishing a level of tradition about two of our great clubs.

[Eddie]

4 minutes ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

I’d doubt those same Southerners would have a clue about either.

Yes, I agree at some point you’ve got to focus on the game itself and purely that.

But as an opening salvo to a neutral audience I see no problem with setting the scene and establishing a level of tradition about two of our great clubs.

Fair enough mate, we can agree to differ. 

[Bob8]

54 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Not sure if this impossibly Northern stereotyping does the game’s profile much good, I can’t imagine it enticing any Southerners to watch for a start. If they ignored the mining and working class elements and showed more exciting clips of past finals it would be better. 
 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/rugby-league/57855672

The sculpture of Henry Moore set to the music of Thomas Beecham would be another approach.

[Dave T]

1 hour ago, Dunbar said:

To be honest, I can't see a lot wrong with it.  Yes, references to northern towns (which they are) and some white rose, red rose stuff (bit cliched) but other than that I saw footage of tough, skillful players and passionate fans and at the end a reference to a 'Northern Invasion'.

I think we can get a little bit hung up on this stuff.  The Challenge Cup final is 'the' day that the sport and the fans of Rugby League take over London, that is what it is famous for and that is why it is a special occasion.  I would use it rather than challenge it.

In the past we would get offended over this stuff because the BBC coverage treated us like Northern Oiks, but I'm with you here, I actually really liked it. 

They started with the mining references but they absolutely made it clear that it was a modern sport with the positioning. 

I liked it a lot. 

[DavidM]

I thought that was well done . We slag off a lack of publicity then slag off how they do it . 

[Dave T]

47 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Just about how exciting the game is and maybe a bit about Powell leaving and Saints being the champions, you know the usual sort of stuff. 

The clips showed the excitement, and there was a reference to Powell reign being almost over. 

[Eddie]

6 minutes ago, Dave T said:

The clips showed the excitement, and there was a reference to Powell reign being almost over. 

After people has disengaged with the miserable northern parody. 

[Dave T]

1 minute ago, Eddie said:

After people has disengaged with the miserable northern parody. 

Based on the responses in the thread you seem to be on your own mate. 

But the thing you wanted them to mention - they did. 

[Tommygilf]

1 hour ago, Eddie said:

Yeah if it was Newcastle v Hull they would, whereas if it was Southampton v Bristol City they wouldn’t - it’s just grim northern stereotyping. Maybe it’s because I’ve moved away from the NoE that I see it differently to if I hadn’t, it makes me cringe though. 

Depends on what the "North" is you're describing is?

Mentioning industrial mining and glassblowing in buildup would be irrelevant, untrue and clear stereotyping if it was Leeds vs Salford like last year. I'd totally agree with you if that were the case.

But its Cas vs St Helens, unless you want to misrepresent these places as "Greater Leeds" and "Greater Liverpool" and then talk about them as dynamic growing metropoles then you're going to struggle to say much else other than what the preview said. They're both post industrial northern towns that really haven't had much in the way of investment or economic interest for at least 40 years. Across so many (economically deprived) northern towns, the RL club is the only thing they have going for them and its been that way for decades. Its also important imo that the North of England that isn't the big 5 or so cities isn't forgotten - especially when they reach a national stage like the Challenge Cup Final.

British Sports crowds respect authenticity. If you're a "dirty old town" as the song goes then that's fine. If you want to change that image, as plenty of Northern Cities have put millions into doing, that's fine too. Being ashamed of what you are however would be far more cringeworthy than acknowledging what St Helens and Castleford stand for as towns and Rugby League clubs.

[EastLondonMike]

2 hours ago, Eddie said:

If it was Harlequins v Saracens in their cup they wouldn’t show footage of Pearly Queens played to a backdrop of Chas n Dave though. 

Of course they wouldn’t. Why would they?! RL clubs have more in common with both than any union club ever will.

As a Londoner I don’t have any problem with the mining/glass blowing historical reference. Paints a picture of hard working, solid working class heroes.

[Rupert Prince]

2 hours ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

People travel and encounter people from other parts of the country.

We are not living in medieval times.

 

I think that this is true, although I do think at even now there are still echoes of the Harrying of the North in 1069 - and this despite all the billions of development money.  Its a bit of a way of thinking. Is it a bit of a chip on our  shoulder or some condescension from the South.  I suppose we can all moan at the Midlands.

But the fact is, and this is where we are, it's a northern game and we need to make the most of that.  The point is we need to have a STRONG northern game - not one on its knees. 

In other news I always hate these intro pieces before the game.  I switch-on on the kick off.