Relegation Off?

[wiganermike]

10 hours ago, sentoffagain2 said:

Although i support Fev no one would take greater pleasure than me to see Trinity achieve the potential a city should have.I supported Trinity from 1956 until 1972/3.Getting on my bike when a youngster and watching training sessions which were open in those days I went to Wembley three times and saw Trinity get beat by Huddersfield in the Championship final when going for the 4 cups in a season only achieved at that time by Hunslet and Huddersfield.I was on good terms with a few of the Trinity Legends of that Period and for a time worked for the man who bankrolled Trinity prior to an early death in his early fifties Ronnie Fell.Trinity have underachieved for the last 50 years.A fresh start in a purpose built stadium with Health .Education and sporting facilities is the way forward .Go ahead and patch up the ground but in another 15 to 20 years it will be back to square one.I live in Sheffield and have done for over 25 years it would have been so easy to go back and watch Trinity in S.L but i am a Rover and am proud to be one.

A minor point but Swinton also won all 4 cups as well during the 1920s.

[sentoffagain2]

11 minutes ago, wiganermike said:

A minor point but Swinton also won all 4 cups as well during the 1920s.

  Sorry for missing that.

[Saint Toppy]

I don't know where people keep getting these rumours from that SL will be increasing the number of teams ??

The existing clubs are already taking a hit financially for the next few years with the reduced TV contract, there's not a cat in hells chance they'll then divide up the smaller pot of money between an additional 2 teams. Thats not them being selfish, thats being practical and trying to preserve what they've already got before bringing in expansion.

There's absolutely no point in expanding to 13, 14 or more teams if you then bankrupt several existing SL clubs in the process.

If the RFL genuinely want a 14 club SL then its up to them to bring in the finances to make it viable either through increased sponsorship or an improved TV deal in 2Yrs time.

[RP London]

1 hour ago, Harry Stottle said:

How long before the RL/SL contradicts or retracts the Chapman statement?

It is only fair they should advise the public one way or the other.

Chapman was not talking as an employee or representative of the RFL or SL so its not something they should/could retract. 

The operational rules (or whatever they are called) for this year are that relegation will happen and that the league standings are based on points percentage, whatever your view on that is those are the rules. Therefore the only time they need to advise the public is if that changes. They have enough on their plate without confirming this every 5 minutes because someone has talked out of turn. 

IF this changes then fair enough but at the moment there is no change and the rules are as they were at the start of the season.

[Smudger06]

1 hour ago, lucky 7 said:

If there is no relegation from Super League and the Championship grand final winners are not allowed into Super League that will drive even more people away from the sport.

Nail on head 

[Smudger06]

There's gonna be promotion, Toulouse and Featherstone would not have assembled the squads they have if not. 

[Smudger06]

Just now, Smudger06 said:

There's gonna be promotion, Toulouse and Featherstone would not have assembled the squads they have if not. 

But relegation ? 

Can't see the money / will been there to expand at present. 

[Chris Taylor]

26 minutes ago, Saint Toppy said:

There's absolutely no point in expanding to 13, 14 or more teams if you then bankrupt several existing SL clubs in the process.

The SL clubs need to look at how they can increase revenue that is not TV based. 

How much is the drop on the TV deal for SL clubs (specifically SL clubs)? What will be hit hard, is the the money the RFL & teams below SL. 

 

[Clogiron]

25 minutes ago, Smudger06 said:

There's gonna be promotion, Toulouse and Featherstone would not have assembled the squads they have if not. 

That statement doesn't bear witness to past history, The Cougar's paid out a six figure sum to sign Daryl Powell then a week later Slimey Mo at the behest of the Dirty Digger pulled the rug from under them, of course he did it only in the best interests of the game,same as the position he took up as head of the European Super League.

[steve oates]

2 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

How long before the RL/SL contradicts or retracts the Chapman statement?

It is only fair they should advise the public one way or the other.

From the start of the year Ken Davey was saying something like, as it stands P&R was on and he had nothing to assume otherwise, which was hardly definitive.

This appears to be in line with the idea talks on P&R were postponed until August, and this may even be connected with the French TV deal, which according to the Rugby Leaguer today Catalans pay the French TV company £15,000 a match to be televised.

But that (one sided) deal is now off, as the French TV company want more? The the winner of the Championship could be Toulouse and after Fev's super win at wembley nobody would deny them an SL place if they earned it. Toulouse could deny them that but could they afford to pay £15,000 or even more a match to get their SL games on TV?

I love the saturday Catalans feeds so imagine an alternate French home game every week, but will this end up being a black out if Bein aren't interested unless the clubs pay more?? And if Toulouse paid £20K a match, would Featherstone complain, given all the years they have strived to get in SL....... 

[paulwalker71]

1 hour ago, Smudger06 said:

There's gonna be promotion, Toulouse and Featherstone would not have assembled the squads they have if not. 

Yeah, that's working on the assumption that the rules won't get changed mid-season

Unfortunately, history shows that's an assumption that can't be made in our sport

[Damien]

2 hours ago, ShropshireBull said:

Looking bk at Cup final stats since Wembley. First game their also included Catalans and included highest ever crowd since 1987 . 85,000 is 2010 with Warrington vs Leeds but last three seasons where full crowds were allowed it´s less than 70,000 .

So for me RFL have a choice whether we choose managed decline for the final now every big club has been there a few times or they can take a loss one season to make a spectacle and sell it out to re¡invigorate the final as an event.

I´d reserve 15k tickets each for the finalists and then put 60k available for 20 quid with kids ticket free with adult. Advertise it on the BBC in the World Cup and say "we want you to be part of rugby league´s (or rugby´s if you want to troll them) largest ever crowd in the 21st century. 

Take the hit one year on the tickets post world cup so you can re-energise and re-engage sponsors and hospitality for the next decade. 

But people who want to go for £20, or indeed less, can already do so any year. Kids tickets could be got anyway for virtually nothing. Pricing isn't the issue. Thinking it is is just repeating the same flawed strategy of cut price offers and pile it high rather than making it an event and targeting new people. 

[Saint Toppy]

1 hour ago, ShropshireBull said:

Sadly I think that is back to front. Unless we expand and bring in new teams in bigger markets (Newcastle, Toulouse, Bradford (don´t laugh), there is no incentive for the sport to attract more income. Clubs at the bottom of the league are going to have to take the reduction (especially since then have been protected from relegation for two consecutive seasons). 

Where is this money going to come from in the short term, its not just RL thats suffering because of Covid. There's not many business nationally that have thrived over the last year or so, the likelihood of being able to attract major new investment in todays circumstances are pretty slim. The sport is just going to have to bite the bullet and do the best they can to get through until the economy as a whole improves and investment is up for grabs.

Bringing in Newcastle, Toulouse etc for 2022 wont make a blind bit of difference at the moment for attracting new investment, its a complete pipe dream to think they will.

 

[lingaro]

On 17/07/2021 at 18:17, fighting irish said:

I'm fickle, I  crave novelty and I yearn for geographic diversity and a move towards a true (growing and blossoming) European Super League, which will raise the profile of the game (here, in France and across Europe). With a fair wind, and a great World Cup, the game will climb to new and unprecedented heights of popularity and from now on everything in the garden will be Rosy.

bet you voted brexit too

[Harry Stottle]

2 hours ago, RP London said:

Chapman was not talking as an employee or representative of the RFL or SL so its not something they should/could retract. 

OK then, considering Chapman was probably addressing most of the people with an interest in Rugby League in this country it would be in the best interests if only to pacify a lot of enquiring minds if there was any substance to Chapmans announcement or not.

Yes I am well aware of the rules that have been stated, are you saying Chapman is a rumour starter has made this up just to antagonise the viewing public, what I don't understand is there were 3 people along side him who are not short on coming forward if they feel they can contradict anyone on any RL topic, is it a case of 'there's no smoke without fire'. 

Contrary to your statement, the RFL/SL should squash the suggestion if it is wrong. 

 

[Damien]

16 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

Did I not say that we should be advertising it in a world cup (when we will have millions of eye balls who normally don´t watch league)? The tickets being cut price has nothing to do with the point about targeting new people, which you missed. 

Also obviously this year is no fair baramoter but 25 quid for under 16 is hardly "virtually nothing". By kids I mean anyone under 18, not just 6 year olds. 

Well don't cut the prices of tickets. Having an effective strategy shouldn't revolve around price cuts.

You could get tickets as cheap as £3.75 for children, I think most consider that to be virtually nothing. 

[Smudger06]

Did anyone actually see these comments? Did it happen.........?

If it did, Did he mean last year? Or was he just plain wrong? 

[Eddie]

Obviously debating the merits of P&R over and over again is ok but there is literally no reason to think there’ll be no relegation this year, Chapman doesn’t know any more than any of us it must have been a mistake. 

[RP London]

23 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

OK then, considering Chapman was probably addressing most of the people with an interest in Rugby League in this country it would be in the best interests if only to pacify a lot of enquiring minds if there was any substance to Chapmans announcement or not.

Yes I am well aware of the rules that have been stated, are you saying Chapman is a rumour starter has made this up just to antagonise the viewing public, what I don't understand is there were 3 people along side him who are not short on coming forward if they feel they can contradict anyone on any RL topic, is it a case of 'there's no smoke without fire'. 

Contrary to your statement, the RFL/SL should squash the suggestion if it is wrong. 

 

I dont think it matters one jot what was said to be honest. I doubt anyone is really all that bothered if there is or isnt relegation or promotion from Super League/championship this year.

I am not sure if it even worth the air time to contradict him and take up air time as things could end up being a debate. 

For me its just nit picking that isnt needed. I would much rather the RFL/SL took any time they would have spent refuting this (against someone who is a staunch advocate for the game) actually pushing the game. If they responded to every false rumour from someone who does not work for them it would be a large amount of wasted time. 

For RL fans they know the truth (if they really think about it rather than knee jerk) and for none RL fans tuning in I doubt they really care.. if they enjoy the game and start to look for more i dont see that being something that will put them off.. just dont really see the point in getting into it. Sometimes you just have to let things go and become yesterdays news and it disappears away.. which this has done (havent seen it covered anywhere except for here), if you engage with it though you can end up in a rabbit hole (its a well worn policy for many, just let it go)

[RP London]

21 minutes ago, Smudger06 said:

Did anyone actually see these comments? Did it happen.........?

If it did, Did he mean last year? Or was he just plain wrong? 

To be honest i watched pretty much the whole thing and i dont remember him saying it.

[PECETTO]

3 hours ago, Saint Toppy said:

I don't know where people keep getting these rumours from that SL will be increasing the number of teams ??

The existing clubs are already taking a hit financially for the next few years with the reduced TV contract, there's not a cat in hells chance they'll then divide up the smaller pot of money between an additional 2 teams. Thats not them being selfish, thats being practical and trying to preserve what they've already got before bringing in expansion.

There's absolutely no point in expanding to 13, 14 or more teams if you then bankrupt several existing SL clubs in the process.

If the RFL genuinely want a 14 club SL then its up to them to bring in the finances to make it viable either through increased sponsorship or an improved TV deal in 2Yrs time.

Who are you talking about  

[RP London]

40 minutes ago, Smudger06 said:

Did anyone actually see these comments? Did it happen.........?

If it did, Did he mean last year? Or was he just plain wrong? 

Ok he said it at about 30 minutes into the program (its on Iplayer.. i skipped through bits where he wasnt talking and found it). 

It was in a very throw away point where they were talking about how difficult it has been this season and the fact cas have had a month off and saints have been playing and getting wins. He said pointing the question at Jamie Peacock:

"We have had this conversation before ahead of the final, not in such extreme circumstances, about players being rested, teams being rotated, because there are play offs at the end of the Super League season so if you can squeeze in you're alright or, if you're looking the other way down, there isn't relegation this season. So a lot of the Castleford players haven't been featuring for a while and even the last game they played, when they were thumped by 70 points to 18 by Salford, that wasn't the players that you're going to see out here, so positive or a negative?" 

While he could have corrected him, i'm really not sure there is any point in doing that rather than answering the question put to him.. especially when they are on timescales to get to other segments of the show.

[lingaro]

 

On 18/07/2021 at 09:58, ShropshireBull said:

Castleford with their stadium generated revenue of 6 million quid in 2017.  Their full stadium on tv is a better advert for the Sport than Huddersfield. 

We should definitely be going to 14/15 teams but it should be staggered and decided on the field. 

1 down,  2 up until we get to the right number. There is York, Newcastle,  Toulouse,  Fev all with infrastructure in place to go up. 

(Also please dont respond these clubs arent gen enough rev.  The whole point is in SL they could because of the commercial opportunities the top flight has.) 

Next season, you have got Leigh Widnes to add to the above. Edit: Dont forget Sheffield with new stadium that could expand if needed. 

most sensible thing I’ve read in years about RL.

[Saint Toppy]

47 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

Nowhere, I said people would have to take a cut. It isn´t a pipedream as it will bring in more money and attract new investors for those clubs. 

Of course they would have to take a cut. Splitting the TV money with an additional 2 teams is a cut, made even worse by the fact the TV deal for the next 2 years is about 1/3rd less than the current deal.

The RFL can't attract major blue chip sponsors and wads of cash and neither can the most successful SL clubs like Saints, Wigan & Leeds. Your living in fantasy land if you think a new SL club like Newcastle or Toulouse are going to rock up and attract major sponsorship. Even the Newcastle football team can only attract an online gambling company who's deal is in the region of £6-7M a year and a secondary sponsor who is an online holiday search engine as their major shirt sponsors. If the major PL team who attract 50K+ fans every game in the city can only get £6-7M a year what chance a RL team who only attract a few hundred fans. 

[Smudger06]

3 minutes ago, RP London said:

Ok he said it at about 30 minutes into the program (its on Iplayer.. i skipped through bits where he wasnt talking and found it). 

It was in a very throw away point where they were talking about how difficult it has been this season and the fact cas have had a month off and saints have been playing and getting wins. He said pointing the question at Jamie Peacock:

"We have had this conversation before ahead of the final, not in such extreme circumstances, about players being rested, teams being rotated because there are play offs at the end of the Super League season so if you can squeeze in you're alright or if you're looking the other way down there isn't relegation this season. So a lot of the Castleford players haven't been featuring for a while and even the last game they played when they were thumped by 70 points to 18 by Salford that wasn't the players that you're going to see out here, so positive or a negative?" 

While he could have corrected him, i'm really not sure there is any point in doing that rather than answering the question put to him.. especially when they are on timescales to get to other segments of the show.

Nice 1 RP  

Really sounds like this thread is based on a nothing then.