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Replacement for Australia


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4 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

The 1980 Olympics were definitely tainted by the withdrawal of the USA. I remember the British sprinter Alan Wells won the gold in the 100M (I think) and while it was a good achievement, it was definitely a case of....'would he have won it if X had taken part' 

For a truly premier competition, you want to beat the best opposition.

He may not have won (saying that he won the World 100m in 81 against the Americans) if the US had been there but the point is he is in the record books and has the gold.

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15 minutes ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

How did he get on in 1984?

He was done by early 83 as you will remember- he did win the world 100m in 81 though.

Edited by Mr Frisky
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3 minutes ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

If Australia don’t take part you could see the likes of Tedesco play for Italy, Tyson Frizell for Wales, Josh Papalii for Samoa and David Fifita for Tonga 

To be honest Tonga would be a bigger loss to the WC - The Aussies & GB can't beat them...

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10 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

The 1980 Olympics were definitely tainted by the withdrawal of the USA. I remember the British sprinter Alan Wells won the gold in the 100M (I think) and while it was a good achievement, it was definitely a case of....'would he have won it if X had taken part' 

For a truly premier competition, you want to beat the best 

From wiki: Following the Moscow Olympics, there was some suggestion that Wells's gold medal had been devalued by the boycott of the games. Wells accepted an invitation to take on the best USA sprinters of the day, among others, at a track meeting in Koblenz in West Germany. Less than two weeks after the Moscow gold, Wells (10.19) won the final in Koblenz beating Americans Stanley Floyd (10.21), Mel Lattany (10.25), Carl Lewis (10.30) and Harvey Glance (10.31). Lattany went straight over to Wells after crossing the line to say, "For what it's worth, Allan, You're the Olympic champion and you would have been Olympic champion no matter who you ran against in Moscow."

Edited by Whippet13
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9 minutes ago, Mr Frisky said:

He was shot by early 83 as you will remember- he did win the world 100m in 81 though.

I was a wee nipper back then so all I can rely on is the testimony of others and what history tells us.

If you’re telling me that the 1980 Olympics was one of the great Olympics and the US withdrawal makes no odds then fine.  But I must warn you that I don’t believe that to be a widely held view in sporting circles.

I can understand why you want to use the analogy though, but I think it’s flawed.  I think if Australia don’t come then whomever is crowned World Champion will have doubts about them.

Unless of course you’re thinking this lays the groundwork for a future matchup maybe even tour including Australia at a future date in time?  That is the only positive I can see.

 

Edited by Gerrumonside ref
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8 minutes ago, Whippet13 said:

 

From wiki: Following the Moscow Olympics, there was some suggestion that Wells's gold medal had been devalued by the boycott of the games. Wells accepted an invitation to take on the best USA sprinters of the day, among others, at a track meeting in Koblenz in West Germany. Less than two weeks after the Moscow gold, Wells (10.19) won the final in Koblenz beating Americans Stanley Floyd (10.21), Mel Lattany (10.25), Carl Lewis (10.30) and Harvey Glance (10.31). Lattany went straight over to Wells after crossing the line to say, "For what it's worth, Allan, You're the Olympic champion and you would have been Olympic champion no matter who you ran against in Moscow."

What about the other sports that the USA normally does well in at the Olympics?

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8 hours ago, ShropshireBull said:

Who would people like to see replace Australia if they don´t show up? 

It's  not just Australia you need to replace: the great majority of players for Samoa, Cook Islands, Tonga, Fiji, New Zealand and Papua New Guinea play in the NRL! 

Nobody in our very lightly affected country wants to go to the font of all infection just for a game well below NRL standard. However, on the positive side the UK in whatever guise might finally make a final! Good luck!

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6 hours ago, Madgicsh said:

It's  not just Australia you need to replace: the great majority of players for Samoa, Cook Islands, Tonga, Fiji, New Zealand and Papua New Guinea play in the NRL! 

Nobody in our very lightly affected country wants to go to the font of all infection just for a game well below NRL standard. However, on the positive side the UK in whatever guise might finally make a final! Good luck!

Really most oceanic players play in oceanic comps? Thanks I had no idea until you told us. Pretty sure the nrl cant block other nations players from going as they signed the agreement and clear players do want to go but NRL is threatening them.  

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6 hours ago, Madgicsh said:

It's  not just Australia you need to replace: the great majority of players for Samoa, Cook Islands, Tonga, Fiji, New Zealand and Papua New Guinea play in the NRL! 

Nobody in our very lightly affected country wants to go to the font of all infection just for a game well below NRL standard. However, on the positive side the UK in whatever guise might finally make a final! Good luck!

I didn't know the UK had a RL team in the WC...... ho to live in a world when you think the NRL is the only Rugby worth watching, its not often the Aussie don't look outside their front door now is it.

Take it you are also on an Olympics forum asking for your country to pull out as well son..

Edited by Mr Frisky
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How is it every other Australian sports would jump at the chance of representing  their country, especially in a WC?

The  Govt is not preventing them taking part. It's just the insularity of the NRL. A s long as it does not upset their comp, that's the main reason for not attending, not Covid.

They are that insular they cannot even  get  expansion of the game in Aussie  right. 

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1 minute ago, frank said:

How is it every other Australian sports would jump at the chance of representing  their country, especially in a WC?

The  Govt is not preventing them taking part. It's just the insularity of the NRL. A s long as it does not upset their comp, that's the main reason for not attending, not Covid.

They are that insular they cannot even  get  expansion of the game in Aussie  right. 

The Aussie games team are in Japan where Covid is rampant and no dissent there from the authorities.

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14 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

In the post covid world , public transport is dead 😉

Leigh, ahead of their time... who'd have thunk it 😜

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14 hours ago, ShropshireBull said:

Exactly, decisions shouldn´t be made for banter purposes but getting a north amercian country in just to troll everyone.. I´m willing to make an exception this time. 

Enjoyed a few of these tbf. On Australia not being in devaluing tournament. Denmark entered Euro´s many years ago when Yugoslavia disintegrated and Denamrk won the trophy. Noone said they weren´t the champions of Europe or deligtimised the tournament so I don´t accept that without Australia it isn´t valid. 

In fact, International RL showing we can be a success without them might actually have some positive consequences down the line. If England did win, I´d be whoring them around have a game in USA and Canada as ´World Champions England´.

South Africa were not in the RU world cup in 1987 and 1991 (for obvious reasons) but were one of the strongest international teams in the world at the time (if they had been allowed to play) but no one would say the 87 and 91 world cups didnt crown the world champions.. 

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10 hours ago, Whippet13 said:

 

From wiki: Following the Moscow Olympics, there was some suggestion that Wells's gold medal had been devalued by the boycott of the games. Wells accepted an invitation to take on the best USA sprinters of the day, among others, at a track meeting in Koblenz in West Germany. Less than two weeks after the Moscow gold, Wells (10.19) won the final in Koblenz beating Americans Stanley Floyd (10.21), Mel Lattany (10.25), Carl Lewis (10.30) and Harvey Glance (10.31). Lattany went straight over to Wells after crossing the line to say, "For what it's worth, Allan, You're the Olympic champion and you would have been Olympic champion no matter who you ran against in Moscow."

Yes I remember that too. He was a very good sprinter and IIRC there was talk about him being the ‘fastest white man alive’ or something like that. He definitely wasn’t second rate.

But the fact is he didn’t beat all comers in the olympics as some opted not to compete. That’s not his fault but it definitely changes the complexion of his win. 

And Australia not taking part in the RLWC would be akin to USA, China and several European countries withdrawing from the Olympics or Brazil and Germany withdrawing from the football WC. I don’t believe they will actually withdraw though.

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14 minutes ago, RP London said:

South Africa were not in the RU world cup in 1987 and 1991 (for obvious reasons) but were one of the strongest international teams in the world at the time (if they had been allowed to play) but no one would say the 87 and 91 world cups didnt crown the world champions.. 

Because they had replacements of a similar standard, sadly RL doesn’t have that luxury. There would definitely be questions if the All Blacks had withdrawn though.

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10 hours ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

If Australia don’t take part you could see the likes of Tedesco play for Italy, Tyson Frizell for Wales, Josh Papalii for Samoa and David Fifita for Tonga 

That’s not some sort of bonus, it highlights the problem of the weaknesses in international RL.

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10 hours ago, Mr Frisky said:

He may not have won (saying that he won the World 100m in 81 against the Americans) if the US had been there but the point is he is in the record books and has the gold.

I think he would have won anyway. But the question will always be there….

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8 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

Because they had replacements of a similar standard, sadly RL doesn’t have that luxury. There would definitely be questions if the All Blacks had withdrawn though.

really?? the african representative zimbabwe got beaten twice having 60 and then 70 points put on them in 1987 then three times over 50 points in 1991?? the extra team brought in instead of South Africa were roundly walloped..

yes they had/have more depth at the top level but lets remember Tonga beat Australia last year, New Zealand were 2008 world champs, they only won the 2017 world cup by 6 points in a tight affair they could have easily lost... the winner could well have won it even if Australia were there. That is the point.. not about what happens further down but could someone else really have won it if they were there, and the answer is yes.. so play on!

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8 hours ago, Madgicsh said:

It's  not just Australia you need to replace: the great majority of players for Samoa, Cook Islands, Tonga, Fiji, New Zealand and Papua New Guinea play in the NRL! 

Nobody in our very lightly affected country wants to go to the font of all infection just for a game well below NRL standard. However, on the positive side the UK in whatever guise might finally make a final! Good luck!

you're making the same error as gould is... basing a decision on todays information rather than on how the modelling is. We are fully open, our stadia are open. With the vaccination programme (the best in the world) going to plan, infection rates (and more importantly hospitalisation rates) will be very low by October and November. 

 

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6 minutes ago, RP London said:

really?? the african representative zimbabwe got beaten twice having 60 and then 70 points put on them in 1987 then three times over 50 points in 1991?? the extra team brought in instead of South Africa were roundly walloped..

yes they had/have more depth at the top level but lets remember Tonga beat Australia last year, New Zealand were 2008 world champs, they only won the 2017 world cup by 6 points in a tight affair they could have easily lost... the winner could well have won it even if Australia were there. That is the point.. not about what happens further down but could someone else really have won it if they were there, and the answer is yes.. so play on!

I’m not remotely a fan of RU but the fact is that they have much more depth at international level. Yes they too have mismatched games but at their top level the best ones are capable of beating each other fairly regular.

We both know what a disaster Australia not participating (or sending a B team) would be for the tournament, it’s foolish to kid ourselves otherwise.

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23 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

I’m not remotely a fan of RU but the fact is that they have much more depth at international level. Yes they too have mismatched games but at their top level the best ones are capable of beating each other fairly regular.

We both know what a disaster Australia not participating (or sending a B team) would be for the tournament, it’s foolish to kid ourselves otherwise.

Honestly.. i dont agree. I think it will mostly go unnoticed by the majority of the people we need to get interested in the game. Unless, of course, we shout about it too much and make it seem less worthy.. if we are all positive about the tournament i dont see it as being an issue at all. 

 

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3 hours ago, RP London said:

Honestly.. i dont agree. I think it will mostly go unnoticed by the majority of the people we need to get interested in the game. Unless, of course, we shout about it too much and make it seem less worthy.. if we are all positive about the tournament i dont see it as being an issue at all. 

 

The majority of people aren’t stupid though, they will figure out the best team isn’t actually playing. It’s like the AFL International games/series, Australia don’t participate due them obviously being way way better than any other opponents. Could it still be enjoyable? Yes. Would it be as authentic? No

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11 hours ago, Madgicsh said:

It's  not just Australia you need to replace: the great majority of players for Samoa, Cook Islands, Tonga, Fiji, New Zealand and Papua New Guinea play in the NRL! 

Nobody in our very lightly affected country wants to go to the font of all infection just for a game well below NRL standard. However, on the positive side the UK in whatever guise might finally make a final! Good luck!

I liked your first paragraph, the less said about the second the better though. 

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