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Replacement for Australia


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3 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

The majority of people aren’t stupid though, they will figure out the best team isn’t actually playing. It’s like the AFL International games/series, Australia don’t participate due them obviously being way way better than any other opponents. Could it still be enjoyable? Yes. Would it be as authentic? No

I don’t think the winners could legitimately call themselves world champions, just World Cup winners. 

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2 minutes ago, Eddie said:

I don’t think the winners could legitimately call themselves world champions, just World Cup winners. 

which is the sort of semantics that no one will care about IMHO.. (i agree by the way)

A picture of England holding the world cup above their head on the back page of the newspaper will catch peoples attention.. even if it says "but Australia weren't there" will be hidden in the text and either seen but not thought about or not even seen.. there will be some as per @Johnoco (sorry mutli quoting from different pages without losing what you are typing is beyond me) but we need to get the larger numbers that just dont know/care/be arsed to work it out.. we just need to grab some attention, once we have it then we have to run with it (and that is the key... )

The problem is, as always, what we do afterwards with the interest we may garner, before they actually give a toss that australia werent there, which they will, granted, once they get into the sport but by that point hopefully they will remember COVID and this sort of stuff happened but also they will be hooked with the club game (and a few internationals, please god got the international game sorted)!

Thats why i dont think its important.. for those that know they are probably already into the game, some will miss it completely and be hooked therefore who cares, there'll be some that will know they arent there but be hooked anyway so who cares, then there are those that will care (but these are likely to be people that we wouldnt hook anyway).. we need new fans and the international game, with our without Australia is a really good way to get them initially. 

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16 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

The majority of people aren’t stupid though, they will figure out the best team isn’t actually playing. It’s like the AFL International games/series, Australia don’t participate due them obviously being way way better than any other opponents. Could it still be enjoyable? Yes. Would it be as authentic? No

Is that not because no one else plays AFL??

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The 1976 Olympics don't count either apparently because of the 29 nations that pulled out because of the All Blacks tour to apartheid South Africa...

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15 minutes ago, Pulga said:

The 1976 Olympics don't count either apparently because of the 29 nations that pulled out because of the All Blacks tour to apartheid South Africa...

Or the Moscow and LA olympics due to Russia/US pulling out of the others games

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From my perspective, it's simple. Let's say, with all due respect, Greece pulled out - I'm confident that most fans would just say, "OK, who should replace them?" 

Australia are simply one of the 16 teams currently on the 'fixture list'. Let's just find the '17th team' and offer them a place instead. 

Bullies have to be stood up to and can get pretty shocked when it happens. Call their bluff!

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29 minutes ago, Mr Frisky said:

Is that not because no one else plays AFL??

Yes professionally at least. But the point is you don’t need to be a seasoned afl watcher to appreciate that obviously you aren’t watching the best of the best. That doesn’t mean you couldn’t still enjoy it (well obviously as it’s afl nobody could enjoy it 😉 ) it just means it’s not the creme de la creme.

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46 minutes ago, Eddie said:

I don’t think the winners could legitimately call themselves world champions, just World Cup winners. 

In that scenario yes, but the winners of the Jules Rimet trophy are considered world champions. But if there was a WC where big hitters didn’t take part, the overall winners would have that tag hanging over them….”well they won but Brazil and Germany weren’t in involved”. And that’s in football who can be, and are, selective about who gets to their WC tournament. 
RL cannot afford to lose its top nation for World Cup. It’s either arrogant or naive to think otherwise.

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12 minutes ago, Alan Robertson said:

From my perspective, it's simple. Let's say, with all due respect, Greece pulled out - I'm confident that most fans would just say, "OK, who should replace them?" 

Australia are simply one of the 16 teams currently on the 'fixture list'. Let's just find the '17th team' and offer them a place instead. 

Bullies have to be stood up to and can get pretty shocked when it happens. Call their bluff!

Lol Australia are *just another team* are they? Aye alright 

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38 minutes ago, Pulga said:

The 1976 Olympics don't count either apparently because of the 29 nations that pulled out because of the All Blacks tour to apartheid South Africa...

With all due respect to the nations concerned, that didn’t have a major impact on the games as the vast majority of the countries were from Africa and unlikely to win many medals anyway. Except possibly Kenya and Ethiopia in the long distance running. 

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3 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

Lol Australia are *just another team* are they? Aye alright 

From a tv figures perspective in England and nuetral fans, the answer would be yes... If England vs New Zealand gets to the final then that will do more than Australia vs X. From a commercial perspective Aussies aren´t that important. 

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2 minutes ago, Alan Robertson said:

No, of course they are not. However, they need to be treated as such if they start attempting to dictate terms to 15 other nations.

They aren’t dictating anything though, they’re just saying (or at least some of them are) that they value the NRL/Origin over international competition. It would be nice if they could see the bigger picture. 

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1 minute ago, Johnoco said:

I should add from a personal perspective, it wouldn’t stop me attending WC games. But then I’m not a new punter.

i've got new punters going to England v Greece... they know its going to be a stonking but their attitude is "its a world cup"..  I have tickets for the final, no matter who is in it, my whole family are coming, my wife and daughter are coming "because its a world cup final"... they wont care australia arent in the tournament, frankly they probably wont know.. 

New punters are game by game.. they want to go and watch a world cup, they are wanting to watch X vs Y.. the fact that in another game somewhere else Australia are no longer playing is going to be largely irrelevant. 

The biggest problem to overcome will be the refunds for the australia games already sold.. but depending on who comes in maybe those games will be fine as the group games may well be closer anyway!

As said earlier, some people will be affected as new punters but most will be ok and that is what we have to deal with.

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2 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

They aren’t dictating anything though, they’re just saying (or at least some of them are) that they value the NRL/Origin over international competition. It would be nice if they could see the bigger picture. 

they're saying move it/cancel it as we wont be coming this year... thats them trying to dictate to the RLWC.. sorry but we can differ on opinion of how it will affect it but I cannot see how you can believe that they are not trying to dictate this to their own interests.

Edited by RP London
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1 minute ago, ShropshireBull said:

From a tv figures perspective in England and nuetral fans, the answer would be yes... If England vs New Zealand gets to the final then that will do more than Australia vs X. From a commercial perspective Aussies aren´t that important. 

Ok bud, whatever you say.

But ask any British RL fan what the ultimate goal is? The answer is to beat Australia in a series or WC.

Sticking your fingers in your ears and going ‘not bothered, ask anyone’ doesn’t change that.

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Just now, RP London said:

they're saying move it/cancel it as we wont be coming this year... thats them trying to dictate to us to the RLWC.. sorry but we can differ on opinion of how it will affect it but I cannot see how you can believe that they are not trying to dictate this to their own interests.

I don’t think they should cancel it or anything. I’m just acknowledging the reality that Australia not partaking would render any subsequent triumph slightly hollow. 
We know this is true, it’s not easy to admit but it’s true. 

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2 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

I don’t think they should cancel it or anything. I’m just acknowledging the reality that Australia not partaking would render any subsequent triumph slightly hollow. 
We know this is true, it’s not easy to admit but it’s true. 

Of course it's true, but if they are not coming then it's where we are so let's embrace it and move on.

I am WAY more bothered about NRL players being available for England and all the other nations than I am about Australia coming over.  England playing in a competition with a strong Tonga, NZ, Samoa, Fiji, France etc is still of great interest to me and I suspect most people, particularly neutrals.

Edited by FearTheVee
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Just now, Johnoco said:

Ok bud, whatever you say.

But ask any British RL fan what the ultimate goal is? The answer is to beat Australia in a series or WC.

Sticking your fingers in your ears and going ‘not bothered, ask anyone’ doesn’t change that.

So again, you said that Australia matter. The commercial numbers (which is what counts) shows Australia vs England is no greater a draw to the tv audience than England vs New Zealand or Eng vs Scotland in the Four Nations. I know Australians like to think they are special but the numbers would suggest, as I´ve already told you and it seems to have upset you with that tedious childish "ok bud" "alright man" that you aren´t as important as you think you are.  I think the ultimate goal is for us to have the best tournament possible this year for the financial future of the game in the NH. 

Also, I think Australia´s "we´re so special" attitude is prbably alienating a significant number of fans who largely couldn´t care whether you come or not.  

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3 minutes ago, RP London said:

i've got new punters going to England v Greece... they know its going to be a stonking but their attitude is "its a world cup"..  I have tickets for the final, no matter who is in it, my whole family are coming, my wife and daughter are coming "because its a world cup final"... they wont care australia arent in the tournament, frankly they probably wont know.. 

New punters are game by game.. they want to go and watch a world cup, they are wanting to watch X vs Y.. the fact that in another game somewhere else Australia are no longer playing is going to be largely irrelevant. 

The biggest problem to overcome will be the refunds for the australia games already sold.. but depending on who comes in maybe those games will be fine as the group games may well be closer anyway!

As said earlier, some people will be affected as new punters but most will be ok and that is what we have to deal with.

Good stuff and we’ll played for getting new people to attend. I’m sure they’ll enjoy it, even if it was a walkover for Greece 😉

But there is a big difference in enjoying newer teams giving it a shot and enjoying the experience and watching someone win it knowing that the best side didn’t take part. It doesn’t mean it’s rubbish or anything, it just means it’s not been done by beating Australia- which has been the ultimate dream of British RL fans since before I was even into RL.

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As hopefully 80%+ of those attending are not regular rugby league fans most wont give a moneys:)

From a professional marketing point of view the Top 6 (Apart from England) would be

1/New Zealand

2/France 

3/Australia

4/Samoa

5/Fiji

6/Tonga

 

 

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1 minute ago, Johnoco said:

I don’t think they should cancel it or anything. I’m just acknowledging the reality that Australia not partaking would render any subsequent triumph slightly hollow. 
We know this is true, it’s not easy to admit but it’s true. 

I dont disagree that to RL fans we would prefer Australia to be there.. however, as we have seen, australia can be beaten by others, it is not their god given right to be in the final, and they are beatable, as seen last time they graced the international stage with their presence. Therefore (depending on the draw) we could play NZ or Tonga in the final anyway as they could have knocked them out previously.. so shame yes but i would celebrate it anyway and you can only beat whats in front of you.

However, that is for the RL fan, to me the world cup is massive for bringing new none RL lovers to the game and, unless everyone bangs on and on about it, i dont think any would care. Just seeing and England Captain lift the trophy would grab attention and that is what we need.. 

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49 minutes ago, Pulga said:

The 1976 Olympics don't count either apparently because of the 29 nations that pulled out because of the All Blacks tour to apartheid South Africa...

What about the 1974 Lions tour was that okay? It was a healing mission apparently

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1 minute ago, ShropshireBull said:

So again, you said that Australia matter. The commercial numbers (which is what counts) shows Australia vs England is no greater a draw to the tv audience than England vs New Zealand or Eng vs Scotland in the Four Nations. I know Australians like to think they are special but the numbers would suggest, as I´ve already told you and it seems to have upset you with that tedious childish "ok bud" "alright man" that you aren´t as important as you think you are.  I think the ultimate goal is for us to have the best tournament possible this year for the financial future of the game in the NH. 

Also, I think Australia´s "we´re so special" attitude is prbably alienating a significant number of fans who largely couldn´t care whether you come or not.  

Well let’s see then shall we? Do you really think a RLWC without its current champions and overall leaders will have no impact on attendance or commercial income? You’re dreaming.

I hope they press on regardless of whether Australia deem themselves worthy of turning up but let’s not pretend it won’t be a massive blow. 
But I don’t believe it will come to that anyway.

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