Rugby League World Cup 2021 (Merged Threads)

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

8 hours ago, MidlandsJohn said:

Stuff like "Invitational" and "President's" teams just make me think either of RU and cricket tours where you play thrown-together squads like this as a warm-up before the real internationals, or events like basketball All-Star games where, even though It's nice to be selected, the game itself ends up having next to no real competitive element and in the case of basketball, just looks like a giant 3-point shooting and dunk contest spread out over the length of a full game.

Replace Aus and NZ with actual nations.

The Tongan invitational 13 side has been sensational - and was a result of a governing body being a d***head. Parallels here too

Australia 13 would still be Australian players and would still be passionate and would still be very good. Non obsessive fans (I.e. not us on here) would understand exceptional circumstances etc - Covid 

I say we do it

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

6 hours ago, voteronniegibbs said:

Leave Australia and New Zealand where they are. Play the world cup without them. Then over the next decade invite Tonga PNG and Samoa on northen hemispere tours. They'll prove very popular with the passion they play the game and crowds will fill stadiums. At the next world cup Australia and New Zealand can be left out again as their ratings will be so low they will need to play qualifying games against each other.  If deemed good enough they will still have to prove they are trustworthy enough to get a place. 

Ha, in a dream world that would be beautiful! 

[Toby Chopra]

9 minutes ago, RayCee said:

We all at things differently and I can’t see anything you’ve mentioned having merit. 

Going ahead is the best option IMO and cancelling it altogether is the second best. For me a postponement is the worst option. There are no guarantees for 2022. The cost of postponing will be sizable. Going up against a  Football WC too is foolish. The ARLC don’t seem interested in the RL WC and I that won’t change next year when they find other reasons not to support it. Handing all power to the ARLC is the last thing the sport needs. International RL should not be dictated to by any body within the sport. 

As for the financial situation, the WC organisers are in the best position to make a call on that one. Your assumed pessimism regarding people turning off the tournament is speculation and unproven. Again, the WC committee will consider all such factors and will move forward accordingly. The glass is still half full to me.

The truth is, neither of us fully know the financial reality, so it's impossible to say which of the three options carries the most financial risk. It all depends on the agreements the tournament has with government, stadiums insurance companies and sponsors and none of that is public. Whichever is the least damaging is the option they should choose. And as I said, postponement should only be considered if strongly binding commitments can be received from Aus/NZ. If they won't provide those then of course it's not worth doing. Providing them does, however, give the Aussies a way out of this hole though, as they aren't coming out of this untarnished themselves. 

What I would also say is that I don't think the world cup clash next year is necessarily the disaster people make out. Even on the current dates, only the final would actually cross over, and the rest of the sporting world will be carrying on in the weeks beforehand, so why not us? It's not like it's in the same country. 

Is it perfect? No. Could it be the least worst option depending on the (unknown) financial facts? Yes. 

But what would be the worst option would be to make a choice purely driven by rage and hurt and an urge to lash out at those that spurned us. I think we all know that rarely works out. 

But I trust the organisers, now the emotion of last week is subsiding, will make a sober and correct choice. 

[Jim from Oz]

2 minutes ago, Toby Chopra said:

The truth is, neither of us fully know the financial reality, so it's impossible to say which of the three options carries the most financial risk. It all depends on the agreements the tournament has with government, stadiums insurance companies and sponsors and none of that is public. Whichever is the least damaging is the option they should choose. And as I said, postponement should only be considered if strongly binding commitments can be received from Aus/NZ. If they won't provide those then of course it's not worth doing. Providing them does, however, give the Aussies a way out of this hole though, as they aren't coming out of this untarnished themselves. 

What I would also say is that I don't think the world cup clash next year is necessarily the disaster people make out. Even on the current dates, only the final would actually cross over, and the rest of the sporting world will be carrying on in the weeks beforehand, so why not us? It's not like it's in the same country. 

Is it perfect? No. Could it be the least worst option depending on the (unknown) financial facts? Yes. 

But what would be the worst option would be to make a choice purely driven by rage and hurt and an urge to lash out at those that spurned us. I think we all know that rarely works out. 

But I trust the organisers, now the emotion of last week is subsiding, will make a sober and correct choice. 

We will  all know on Monday after the meeting of the Asia Pacific rugby league group

 

 if they all agree to go I say, let the World Cup go on!

The 1984 Olympics in Los Angeles were without the entire eastern block and they were absolutely brilliant

[Toby Chopra]

17 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

My view on progressing here.

If we get guarantees that Tonga, Fiji, Samoa, PNG et al are coming (and it's a big if) then we should absolutely progress with the tournament.

They have some of the best players in the world (as do England) and we will probably get some of the elite players who would have played for the Kangaroos or Kiwis as well.

It's a no to any Australian or Kiwi rebel teams for me - a World Cup is a nations tournament and if Australia or New Zealand decide not to participate then that is on them.

Replace them with other nations and get on with it.  I desperately hope that there is some kind of reverse and the Kangaroos and Kiwi's come as I still crave a fantastic World Cup but without them we can still have a celebration of the sport... and maybe give them pause for thought on their decision.

All this being said, all it will take is one PI nation to pull out now under pressure from the NRL and the domino effect will mean they all pull out and then the whole thing is off.  If that happens then some people at the top of the game in Australia and New Zealand will go down in history as saboteurs of our game and they should be ashamed of themselves (as they should be already).

Seems about right. 

[Jim from Oz]

4 hours ago, DlEHARD said:

As an Aussie I am very unhappy and angry with the ARL...

Please email the NRL everybody and let them know how you feel NOW, fan pressure will it be important in salvaging the World Cup

feedback@nrl.com.au

[GeordieSaint]

1 minute ago, Jim from Oz said:

Please email the NRL everybody and let them know how you feel NOW, fan pressure will it be important in salvaging the World Cup

feedback@nrl.com.au

I love your optimism. But it’s a dead end. ARLC have said there’s no more negiotation. I’ve seen a similar statement from the NZRL. This has nothing to do with COVID and everything to do with power and money.

[Griff]

I'd go ahead.

If it's too late to organise replacements - well, we've had a 14 team competition before.  Bring back the cross group games.

It's not ideal but neither is letting a couple of countries run the show.

[Jinking Jimmy]

Well said, James Graham!

[welshmagpie]

behind a paywall but you get the gist. 

[Dave T]

I'm not a fan of inidigenous or Maori teams playing - players miss out through no fault of their own. 

I'm OK with artifical teams of some sort though, we see West Indies in Cricket, and there is the Olympic 'other nationalities' section. 

I think it needs to be Australia XIII and NZ XIII instead of Kangaroos and Kiwis though if you do this. 

[GeordieSaint]

5 minutes ago, Jim from Oz said:

We will  all know on Monday after the meeting of the Asia Pacific rugby league group

If they all agree to go I say, let the World Cup go on!

The 1984 Olympics in Los Angeles were without the entire eastern block and they were absolutely brilliant

Absolutely agree.

I think the competition we still be a financial success. The central funding and impressive array of sponsors will be retained. Yes, it’ll have an impact on crowds where the Aussies/Kiwis are a draw but I have the upmost faith in the Leeds/Warrington population to still turn up in great numbers if the US/Serbia/Brazil are playing instead. The impact on those nations (both in terms of financial and prestige) will be fantastic and it’ll also send the message that the game is bigger than two nations. 

Big if in regards to those Pacific nations but I think we’ll still make the tournament a roaring success. 

[RP London]

1 hour ago, Scubby said:

Fans may even boycott Aus and NZ games even if they do come in 2022.

I know I certainly would. 

[theswanmcr]

Some really good comments and thoughts from everyone. 
 

The big problem now is that even if it postponed what is to stop this happening next year? They’ve already shown they will do whatever they want and whenever they want and could easily pull the same trick again.

To go ahead though we need 1) All nations at full strength with cast iron guaranteees 2) Govt support - this will be key… how much do they want this to happen to show that we are ‘open for business’ and do they support it if we run without Oz and NZ. I expect there’s some serious talks happening/planned for next week there.

 

[Jim from Oz]

8 minutes ago, GeordieSaint said:

I love your optimism. But it’s a dead end. ARLC have said there’s no more negiotation. I’ve seen a similar statement from the NZRL. This has nothing to do with COVID and everything to do with power and money.

I totally agree it has nothing to do with Covid and everything about power and money, but I still implore everyone to let the NRL know how disgusted they are about it, every tiny little bit of pushback helps, and most of all, it’s always important to stand up to bullies! 

[GeordieSaint]

3 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I'm not a fan of inidigenous or Maori teams playing - players miss out through no fault of their own. 

I'm OK with artifical teams of some sort though, we see West Indies in Cricket, and there is the Olympic 'other nationalities' section. 

I think it needs to be Australia XIII and NZ XIII instead of Kangaroos and Kiwis though if you do this. 

I am not a big fan either. But what a massive two fingers up to the ARLC/NZRL if their own player base does this… same with the Pacific Islanders… I’d accept them simply out of spite! 

[RP London]

1 hour ago, Toby Chopra said:

Then fans would be contributing to the demise of English rugby league. 

We all feel betrayed, and we have been. So it's natural to want to stick it to the Aussies and tell them we can do without them forever. I've felt that too. 

But when tempers have settled we have to find a way back from this. There's no future for international rugby league without Australia, and without international rugby league the English game would be on the fast track to total marginalisation. 

It's a terrible situation, but cutting off our noses to spite our faces will be even worse. 

Don't agree... I'd buy tickets to other games but I would avoid anything involving those two... if the other games were packed but there's were half empty I think that would speak well. 

[MrPosh]

I don't have tickets, yet, but I'm planning on one group game and the semi at the Emirates.

If this goes ahead without Aus and NZ I will add in a couple more games to reward the bravery of the organisers. I suspect many will do the same.

[Jim from Oz]

Postponement to next year is a non-starter, V’landys et al have shown by this disgusting act of bastedry that he/the NRL etc do not give a flying you know what about the World Cup!
 

They will not come over next year, either!

[Damien]

With the record and unprecedented levels of funding the RLWC is in a better position than ever before to continue without Australia and NZ. We are not dependent financially on the participation of Australia or NZ for the first time ever.

I'm not interested in teams like the indigenous and Maori teams, however much I would like to see the black eye it gives to the Aussies and Kiwis. We need bona fide nations in the RLWC and I wasn't a fan of the Maoris being included in 2000. It's divisive leaves the game open to ridicule.

The RLWC has to continue and take place for the good of the game and the IRL. The major difficulty is if we have any more withdrawals from PNG, Tonga, Fiji or Samoa. That is why I would be paying them enough to ensure they still play and make the decision easier.

Edited July 24, 2021 by Damien

[Griff]

4 minutes ago, RP London said:

Don't agree... I'd buy tickets to other games but I would avoid anything involving those two... if the other games were packed but there's were half empty I think that would speak well. 

Yeah - I'd go to other games too.

They're usually better games anyway.

[Jim from Oz]

Just now, MrPosh said:

I don't have tickets, yet, but I'm planning on one group game and the semi at the Emirates.

If this goes ahead without Aus and NZ I will add in a couple more games to reward the bravery of the organisers. I suspect many will do the same.

Champion attitude.
 

I feel many fans would be like you.

I know if I could escape the prison that is Australia, I would be going to every single game I could get to! Just to say, #### you to V’landys!!

[RP London]

33 minutes ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

The Tongan invitational 13 side has been sensational - and was a result of a governing body being a d***head. Parallels here too

Australia 13 would still be Australian players and would still be passionate and would still be very good. Non obsessive fans (I.e. not us on here) would understand exceptional circumstances etc - Covid 

I say we do it

I think it would be a bigger slap in the face to v'landys if we have an aus 13 and nz 13 made up of a real strong squad that said "I want to play"... his player welfare argument goes out the window then... 

Unless he is sort of waiting for them to do that and he says oh OK then but you know the consequences we want you all at pre season training on time.. no excuses... you've broken the cba etc..

[Jim from Oz]

This is great. Every bit of resistance to the V’landys coup is vital

[Damien]

18 minutes ago, GeordieSaint said:

I love your optimism. But it’s a dead end. ARLC have said there’s no more negiotation. I’ve seen a similar statement from the NZRL. This has nothing to do with COVID and everything to do with power and money.

Surely it's better to try and make your feelings known rather than just give up and take it lying down?

Well done to everyone that has made their feelings know