Rugby League World Cup 2021 (Merged Threads)

[RayCee]

There is no appreciation from the ARLC and NZRL for the efforts made to appease them. The disinformation that has followed is deplorable. All the WC organiser's efforts has been thrown back in their face with no hint of remorse. I really feel for the players but the administrators nothing but appalled.  

The money that is going to be spent on getting Aus and NZ teams over (private jets?) and back quarantined - all paid by the WC organisers - is substantial. Maybe their presence would more than cover that. However, teams from the US and say Serbia would cost a fraction of that, leaving more money after the tournament to be hopefully spent on developing RL internationally. Of course, that depends on things that we aren't privy to, in terms of the ramifications of a no show by Aus/NZ. 

Another postponement is presumably unavoidable but I would have liked a statement that it is going ahead. If a country like the US is prepared and offered to step in, is it fair to keep them hanging, hoping a better deal can be struck with someone else? 

[Jim from Oz]

37 minutes ago, Jim from Oz said:

So I don't know whether to think,

"Great, this means they're going hell bent on getting the tournament on this year, and are just tying up loose ends as far as player commitments from the 14 confirmed teams, and working out who the two new teams will be and getting player commitments from them, and/or giving the ARLC/NZRL one final chance to get on board."

OR:

"Oh no, they might be trying to work out if they CAN hold it next year" – a decision which I think is disastrous and fraught with dangerous consequences.

OR:

"Oh no, it's one final shot and getting RLWC 2021 off the ground, but they're resigned to cancellation" – a decision which is definitely disastrous.

OR,

"Maybe it's an insurance issue – vis-a-vis a player playing for an Invitational XIII – that is causing further delays."

[gittinsfan]

Just a thought so please don't bite my head off.

I think we all realise the Aussies are trying to do a take over of the IRL.Would we not be supporting the IRL  more if we invited 2 members of the IRL  (the next best runners up qualifiers)  as opposed to 2 "invented teams".Could it be seen as a snub to the IRL if we invited 2 indiginous teams.

As I said it's just a thought, I don't know the answer.                                                                                                                                                              

[17 stone giant]

36 minutes ago, Whippet13 said:

giving the ARL and NZRL every opportunity to come back on board

How can they come back on board when they've said it's about player wellbeing and safety? It would make them look ridiculous if they changed their minds only a few days later. It's not going to happen.

[Matterhorn]

Its a real tough one, I can see arguments for both sides. Personally I think the next 2 runners up should be allowed in assuming aus/nz still said thanks but no thanks.

Remember they went through qualifying process.

I mean imagine if  Serbia got in & someone could convince Novak Djokovic publicy support them or say the 3 trbjojevic brothers get involved somehow.  Playing would be great. Don't know Manly would be enthusiastic but its up to the players to decide.

Or even South Africa don't know if they were close but it would mean Africa as a continent meaning yes we are a true World Cup with Europe/Asia/Pacific/Africa/Americas(USA) represented

 

Edited July 28, 2021 by Matterhorn

[17 stone giant]

54 minutes ago, Jim from Oz said:

they might be trying to work out if they CAN hold it next year" – a decision which I think is disastrous and fraught with dangerous consequences.

I hope it's this. I hope the contingency plans that they have spoken about previously (e.g. September 2020 - BBC Sport)

will mean that it's possible to put it back to 2022, so that it can be a 'proper world cup' with all of the best teams.

[jacksy]

17 minutes ago, 17 stone giant said:

I hope it's this. I hope the contingency plans that they have spoken about previously (e.g. September 2020 - BBC Sport)

will mean that it's possible to put it back to 2022, so that it can be a 'proper world cup' with all of the best teams.

No its got be 2021. 

[Matterhorn]

I just feel sorry for the players from Aus/NZ - they are chess pawns being flicked of the board so the King (NRL) can call CHECKMATE. They find out through the media there not going. Publicly state they want to go with the 75% survey proving this. Numerous grabs in interviews from certain players likely to go state they want to go. But we hear anonymously that some stated they did but didnt really want to privately - give me a break.

If someone doesn't want to go that's fine we all respect that & after a long season who can blame them. Everyone has personal reasons that is none of our business to know why.

But for the few who want to pursue the final sprint to the finish line & want to complete the Rugby League Marathon this year then Kudos to you as well. As you will go down as the ones who stood up to the bullies & unwarranted pressure from clubs & be forever remembered as the ones who saved the world cup this year. Special mention to Jason who hopefully starts the snowball effect.

Edited July 28, 2021 by Matterhorn

[Whippet13]

1 hour ago, 17 stone giant said:

How can they come back on board when they've said it's about player wellbeing and safety? It would make them look ridiculous if they changed their minds only a few days later. It's not going to happen.

Very easily. Vladys is perfectly capable of a u turn, it just needs a "revised and enhanced" set of protocols to be agreed and some nice face saving joint statement. Vladys has kept that option alive, why do you think we haven't heard a word from him yet? He could very much paint himself here as the great RLWC saviour who got major concessions that guaranteed player safety.....blah blah blah. Same from the RLWC, there has been zero criticism of the ARL/NZRL from them, there is a reason for that.

If they dont rejoin then fair enough, I believe a 2021 RLWC without the ARL/NZRL will work just fine.

[Big Picture]

TVNZ reports that International Rugby League boss threatens sanctions if trans-Tasman Tests go ahead.

[Jim from Oz]

I've just listened to this from Vossy, it's brilliant.

I'm reposting in case people missed it. Share it if you can:

https://webplayer.whooshkaa.com/episode/856808?visual=true&theme=light

[Matterhorn]

Are these guys from another planet?

Sabotage a competition set in stone.

Then have the hide to say if you cancel or postpone the world cup we will just play aus / nz because we haven't played in 2 years.

Well Earth to Planet Captain Obvious there is a plane waiting to take you to the UK where you can play up to 6-7 test matches this year all fully sanctioned.

[Griff]

3 hours ago, 17 stone giant said:

How can they come back on board when they've said it's about player wellbeing and safety? It would make them look ridiculous if they changed their minds only a few days later. It's not going to happen.

They already look ridiculous.

[unapologetic pedant]

8 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

There is already a precedent for this in the IRL too with Tonga playing as the Tonga Invitational XIII in the last Oceania cup/GB Tour. 

As much as I like the idea of Indigenous and Maori teams, I do think the opportunity has to be there for the Aussies and Kiwis that aren't qualified for that who want to come but can't too. Perhaps if they go with invitational 13s then the kits could reflect the Maori/Indigenous aspects. Thinking top half Green and Gold vs with bottom half Indigenous design for example.

The key fact about the Tonga invitational team was that the breakaway Tongan administration was under the aegis of the NRL, and therefore had the support of NRL clubs.

From what I can discern, the NZ Maori RL have a staunchly independent existence, separate from the NZ RL. They stage a number of major tournaments and run regional rep teams. They are particularly instrumental in grass roots RL in Waikato and Bay of Plenty. Their chairman, John Devonshire, sounded distinctly peeved earlier this year when the NRL only included Australia-based players and staff for the Indigenous/Maori games. This was a particular let-down for the NZ-resident women`s players and coaches.

The above is equally true of the Koori and Murri Rugby Leagues in NSW and QLD. I suspect both Indigenous and Maori would be more than happy to send teams. Even without NRL players, they would probably be stronger than at least half of the other teams at the WC.

The problem is, they don`t have much money. If the NRL are intent on scuppering the tournament, they won`t be above News Corp-style SL war machinations, waving fat cheques in front of the Indigenous and Maori governing bodies to bring them to their side.

[Gomersall]

 

[RP London]

7 hours ago, Whippet13 said:

Well, now you have consulted the fountain of all RL knowledge and wisdom known as the TotalRL forum you can do another episode. Keep at it mate, more you do of anything the better you get. Advise plugging your show as being on a podcast as well as YouTube when promoting it.

@David Dockhouse Host is that true?? i struggle to watch you tube videos like this at the moment but i'm listening to podcasts on my run in and out of work (and running low). if so will download and have a listen.

[RP London]

7 hours ago, Jim from Oz said:

So I don't know whether to think,

"Great, this means they're going hell bent on getting the tournament on this year, and are just tying up loose ends as far as player commitments from the 14 confirmed teams, and working out who the two new teams will be and getting player commitments from them, and/or giving the ARLC/NZRL one final chance to get on board."

OR:

"Oh no, they might be trying to work out if they CAN hold it next year" – a decision which I think is disastrous and fraught with dangerous consequences.

OR:

"Oh no, it's one final shot and getting RLWC 2021 off the ground, but they're resigned to cancellation" – a decision which is definitely disastrous.

I would say there is a bit of all 3.. if you were running a business and something like this happened (we have had similar this customer orders being cancelled etc) then you look at all the options available to you to work out which is the most feasible. Therefore I am sure they know exactly how much it would cost to take place next year and whether that is actually an option, how much cancelling would cost and also all the options to play again this year. 

They may just be waiting for some of those facts to be made more clear but also there could be some talks by the RLPA with players to gauge which out of the indigenous teams/rebel teams/invite new teams would be the most likely to succeed and what the players views are on that, knowing now that the players will most likely speak out so better pick the most popular one.

[RP London]

7 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

Sounds plausible. Another plausible situation may be that NRL insurance policies are only valid for participants of international fixtures playing in international sides.

Without the lobbying of the NRL prior,  Indigenous and Maori may not satisfy the insurance criteria if they are not operating under the governance of the NRL and NZRL respectively.

from my understanding talking to someone in the insurance industry the word "sanctioned" is really important. If the IRL sanction a match then insurance is covered he believes there will be IRL or World Cup insurance that would cover this, but he also said it could be the club they are playing for, therefore they would need to get separate insurance for any "rebel" side that played but that wouldn't be difficult and the RLWC would just need to get it (more money but that could be what is being negotiated with the govt). IF they are not sanctioned then there is an issue for the insurance, so IF there are unsanctioned tests at the end of the season there are more likely to be insurance issues of who covers what than if the RLWC goes ahead. 

As i say, this is from someone who deals with this type of thing and he is confident insurance is not an issue here as it is a recognised and sanctioned event by the international governing body.

[RP London]

6 hours ago, 17 stone giant said:

How can they come back on board when they've said it's about player wellbeing and safety? It would make them look ridiculous if they changed their minds only a few days later. It's not going to happen.

TBF that horse has well and truly bolted already!

[fighting irish]

5 hours ago, Whippet13 said:

Very easily. Vladys is perfectly capable of a u turn, it just needs a "revised and enhanced" set of protocols to be agreed and some nice face saving joint statement. Vladys has kept that option alive, why do you think we haven't heard a word from him yet? He could very much paint himself here as the great RLWC saviour who got major concessions that guaranteed player safety.....blah blah blah. Same from the RLWC, there has been zero criticism of the ARL/NZRL from them, there is a reason for that.

If they dont rejoin then fair enough, I believe a 2021 RLWC without the ARL/NZRL will work just fine.

Also the daily infection figures are dropping like a stone (as predicted). 

[David Dockhouse Host]

40 minutes ago, RP London said:

@David Dockhouse Host is that true?? i struggle to watch you tube videos like this at the moment but i'm listening to podcasts on my run in and out of work (and running low). if so will download and have a listen.

Hi, yes it's on iTunes Spotify etc. Really help if you could subscribe and leave a comment, thanks for your support, any suggestions on improvements are very welcome also, thanks again.

iTunes link 

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/dock-house-rugby-show/id1561271271

 

 

 

 

[The Rocket]

6 hours ago, Whippet13 said:

He could very much paint himself here as the great RLWC saviour who got major concessions that guaranteed player safety..

He might say that, but it sounds like they are already pretty well in place.

More likely given V`landy`s history if he knows the British Government are willing to fork out to make this tournament happen he will be looking to screw every last dollar out of them.

His regime (so far)

*  Took the bookmakers all the way to the High Court ( highest court in this country )  to extract higher fees from them to have the right to bet on horses in NSW. Won and earned Racing literally 100 x`s millions of dollars;

*  Tried a similar thing for League but settled for having higher fees for SOO and Finals. Settled and earned the NRL ~$10m/yr extra;

*   When the Equine flu threatened the racing industry extracted $235m from the Federal Gov`t.

*   When the NSW Gov`t canned plans to rebuild Olympic park extracted promises of 3 mini-Bankwest`s, first one to be announced soon , a $300m 30 000 seat stadium for Penrith;

*   $8m from Qld government to host SOO2;

*   Successfully lobbied the Federal Gov`t to pay a large proportion of Pacific islands Rugby League development programmes. 

The list goes on.

If past behaviour is any guide to future behaviour perhaps we can expect further concessions from both the British and Australian Governments before a green-light is given from the ARLC.

 

 

 

Edited July 28, 2021 by The Rocket

[gingerjon]

10 minutes ago, The Rocket said:

He might say that, but it sounds like they are already pretty well in place.

More likely given V`landy`s history if he knows the British Government are willing to fork out to make this tournament happen he will be looking to screw every last dollar out of them.

His regime (so far)

*  Took the bookmakers all the way to the High Court ( highest court in this country )  to extract higher fees from them to have the right to bet on horses in NSW. Won and earned Racing literally 100 x`s millions of dollars;

*  Tried a similar thing for League but settled for having higher fees for SOO and Finals. Settled and earned the NRL ~$10m/yr extra;

*   When the Equine flu threatened the racing industry extracted $235m from the Federal Gov`t.

*   When the NSW Gov`t canned plans to rebuild Olympic park extracted promises of 3 mini-Bankwest`s, first one to be announced soon , a $300m 30 000 seat stadium for Penrith;

*   $8m from Qld government to host SOO2;

*   Successfully lobbied the Federal Gov`t to pay a large proportion of Pacific islands Rugby League development programmes. 

The list goes on.

If past behaviour is any guide to future behaviour perhaps we can expect further concessions from both the British and Australian Governments before a green-light is given from the ARLC.

 

 

 

We can all read wikipedia.

Not always a winner thought: https://www.punters.com.au/news/vlandys-fails-in-defamation-case-against-abc_198392/

[DI Keith Fowler]

9 minutes ago, The Rocket said:

He might say that, but it sounds like they are already pretty well in place.

More likely given V`landy`s history if he knows the British Government are willing to fork out to make this tournament happen he will be looking to screw every last dollar out of them.

His regime (so far)

*  Took the bookmakers all the way to the High Court ( highest court in this country )  to extract higher fees from them to have the right to bet on horses in NSW. Won and earned Racing literally 100 x`s millions of dollars;

*  Tried a similar thing for League but settled for having higher fees for SOO and Finals. Settled and earned the NRL ~$10m/yr extra;

*   When the Equine flu threatened the racing industry extracted $235m from the Federal Gov`t.

*   When the NSW Gov`t canned plans to rebuild Olympic park extracted promises of 3 mini-Bankwest`s, first one to be announced soon , a $300m 30 000 seat stadium for Penrith;

*   $8m from Qld government to host SOO2;

*   Successfully lobbied the Federal Gov`t to pay a large proportion of Pacific islands Rugby League development programmes. 

The list goes on.

If past behaviour is any guide to future behaviour perhaps we can expect further concessions from both the British and Australian Governments before a green-light is given from the ARLC.

 

 

 

Makes sense, even if plan A is a power grab from IRL plan B might be take it to the wire and extract UK government money in the event they do have to play. 

[Whippet13]

6 minutes ago, The Rocket said:

He might say that, but it sounds like they are already pretty well in place.

More likely given V`landy`s history if he knows the British Government are willing to fork out to make this tournament happen he will be looking to screw every last dollar out of them.

His regime (so far)

*  Took the bookmakers all the way to the High Court ( highest court in this country )  to extract higher fees from them to have the right to bet on horses in NSW. Won and earned Racing literally 100 x`s millions of dollars;

*  Tried a similar thing for League but settled for having higher fees for SOO and Finals. Settled and earned the NRL ~$10m/yr extra;

*   When the Equine flu threatened the racing industry extracted $235m from the Federal Gov`t.

*   When the NSW Gov`t canned plans to rebuild Olympic park extracted promises of 3 mini-Bankwest`s, first one to be announced soon , a $300m 30 000 seat stadium for Penrith;

*   $8m from Qld government to host SOO2;

*   Successfully lobbied the Federal Gov`t to pay a large proportion of Pacific islands Rugby League development programmes. 

The list goes on.

If past behaviour is any guide to future behaviour perhaps we can expect further concessions from both the British and Australian Governments before a green-light is given from the ARLC.

 

 

 

Oh, he's definitely a schemer all right. I don't think theres anything more to give from the RLWC, UK govt side though. Any concessions he will ask for most likely be around greater control of future IRL plans. It's a coup attempt which thankfully has so far not got much traction.