Rugby League World Cup 2021 (Merged Threads)

[Man of Kent]

Mildly depressing to read the tangent about the 4 Nations and other old ground.

The Aussies are sending us a clear message - we cannot rely on them. We do need to grow the international game in the northern hemisphere as well.

That means playing France, Ireland, Wales, Scotland, Serbia, Jamaica etc. even if it means weakening the England team - much as Australia and New Zealand are weakened by the likes of Jason Taumalolo playing for their heritage nations.

We also have our issues with selfish clubs, cf. Super League scheduling three fixtures on the same day as the Combined Nations game. 

[Tommygilf]

9 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

Mildly depressing to read the tangent about the 4 Nations and other old ground.

The Aussies are sending us a clear message - we cannot rely on them. We do need to grow the international game in the northern hemisphere as well.

That means playing France, Ireland, Wales, Scotland, Serbia, Jamaica etc. even if it means weakening the England team - much as Australia and New Zealand are weakened by the likes of Jason Taumalolo playing for their heritage nations.

We also have our issues with selfish clubs, cf. Super League scheduling three fixtures on the same day as the Combined Nations game. 

That is absolutely true and was demonstrated in 2019 with them pulling out of the GB tour. 

We need to be less obsessed with them because they can and will drop us at a moments notice. Building up viable Northern Hemisphere opponents is critical to that. We don't have a strategy for anything though let alone for other nations.

[DI Keith Fowler]

1 minute ago, Tommygilf said:

That is absolutely true and was demonstrated in 2019 with them pulling out of the GB tour. 

I hadn't even thought about that. Looking back it does seem to be a bit of a warning sign. 

[fighting irish]

1 minute ago, Tommygilf said:

That is absolutely true and was demonstrated in 2019 with them pulling out of the GB tour. 

We need to be less obsessed with them because they can and will drop us at a moments notice. Building up viable Northern Hemisphere opponents is critical to that. We don't have a strategy for anything though let alone for other nations.

This is the function of the IRL surely.

I'm sure we could get a good following here (in Wales) for Wales v Jamaica, or Wales v USA or Canada etc.

These games are mutually beneficial and (I believe) more attractive because of the unpredictability of the results than a lop-sided Wales v England match.

I'm very eager to see some structure created where these games can be established and built upon year on year.

[Mathius Hellwege]

Scotland add extra fixture to November Test window (rugbypass.com)

 

Tonga RU in Europe in November....NRL so sad and bad

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

24 minutes ago, The Rocket said:

One other thing, I think it was you who said to me earlier that over here we are told that by the media that SOO is the best and we just swallow that blindly.

I have to disagree there strongly, Mark Gasnier up against Greg Inglis, Billy Slater in the same team as Johnathon Thurston etc. etc. etc. you didn`t have to be told by the media to know that when you watched SOO you were watching the best up against the very best. Some supremely talented individuals. That`s not a slight on anyone else, just these were teams chock full of often extraordinary talent that often provided extraordinary moments. It was a very hard act to follow.

That's a fair point - Origin did used to showcase the vast majority of the world's best players. But I don't believe that's been the case for a few years. As has been pointed out on this thread, the Kiwis and more recently Tonga have demonstrated their capability to beat the Aussies. But this doesn't fit the Aussie media narrative that SoO is the pinnacle of the sport.

Given the high proportion of players in the NRL with Pacific Islands heritage, this issue doesn't look like it's going to disappear any time soon. If more internationals are played, and they continue to be exciting, high intensity games that capture the public's imagination, then it will become increasingly difficult to maintain the illusion that SoO is still the pinnacle of the game.

[fighting irish]

1 minute ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

That's a fair point - Origin did used to showcase the vast majority of the world's best players. But I don't believe that's been the case for a few years. As has been pointed out on this thread, the Kiwis and more recently Tonga have demonstrated their capability to beat the Aussies. But this doesn't fit the Aussie media narrative that SoO is the pinnacle of the sport.

Given the high proportion of players in the NRL with Pacific Islands heritage, this issue doesn't look like it's going to disappear any time soon. If more internationals are played, and they continue to be exciting, high intensity games that capture the public's imagination, then it will become increasingly difficult to maintain the illusion that SoO is still the pinnacle of the game.

Isn't it true, that with greater numbers of non-Australians playing in the NRL that a good deal of the ''best'' players are not Australian and therefore not eligible for the SoO? If this is the case and a growing trend then claiming it's the pinnacle of the game will become more and more difficult. 

 

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

1 minute ago, fighting irish said:

Isn't it true, that with greater numbers of non-Australians playing in the NRL that a good deal of the ''best'' players are not Australian and therefore not eligible for the SoO? If this is the case and a growing trend then claiming it's the pinnacle of the game will become more and more difficult. 

 

I would agree. Unless they move the SoO eligibility goalposts. It's telling that the NRL moved heaven and earth to get SoO on this year and last, but the Pacific tests bit the dust. 

[Damien]

45 minutes ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

Was the 4 Nations an IRL thing, whereas a test series shares the profits between the competing nations?

No Australia, NZ and GB shared the profits. 

[Tommygilf]

Just now, DI Keith Fowler said:

I hadn't even thought about that. Looking back it does seem to be a bit of a warning sign. 

Absolutely, it was unilateral then too. 

As much as half the proceeds of an England tour is good for the NZRL too, it seems the NRL/ARLC money is even more. Neither can be relied on now. 

The pacific nations, the North Americans, the Europeans on our doorstep, these have to be front and centre of any international game plans for England now going forwards. The best thing about this tournament going ahead without th Aussies and Kiwis is that the RFL might finally wake up to this fact.

Our (English RL's) success is now directly entwined with their success and growth far more than Australia and New Zealand's. The sooner we stop seeing ourselves as "one of the big three" and rather as "a (leading) member of the international RL community" the better.

[MrPosh]

37 minutes ago, The Rocket said:

You could have a point there.

I read a lot on these pages about young players like Makingson, Knowles, Gildart, Trueman et.al who from some posters on here, who I would judge as pretty handy judges of League talent, say are real prospects, but are complete unknowns to me. So yeah, if we played them more, and I saw that they could hold their own, yes I would definitely get more interested.

I don't mean this as a dig, as I enjoy your posts and appreciate your views, but Makinson is 29 years old and won the Golden Boot as the best player in the world.

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

1 minute ago, Tommygilf said:

Our (English RL's) success is now directly entwined with their success and growth far more than Australia and New Zealand's. The sooner we stop seeing ourselves as "one of the big three" and rather as "a (leading) member of the international RL community" the better.

This made the RFL's decision to stop developing the sport in the other home nations all the more disappointing. Whilst it may or may not technically be the RFL's responsibility, it's absolutely in England's interests to have a strong Wales, Scotland and Ireland.

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

Just now, MrPosh said:

I don't mean this as a dig, as I enjoy your posts and appreciate your views, but Makinson is 29 years old and won the Golden Boot as the best player in the world.

But in Rocket's defence (which he doesn't need), I don't think Makinson has ever played against Australia.

[Tommygilf]

13 minutes ago, fighting irish said:

This is the function of the IRL surely.

I'm sure we could get a good following here (in Wales) for Wales v Jamaica, or Wales v USA or Canada etc.

These games are mutually beneficial and (I believe) more attractive because of the unpredictability of the results than a lop-sided Wales v England match.

I'm very eager to see some structure created where these games can be established and built upon year on year.

The IRL should only exist to organise international tournaments and sanction matches that have been organised by the NGBs themselves.

So for your example, Wales are free to organise test matches against Jamaica, USA or Canada. The last time they did however they played in Wakefield.

In terms of structured tournaments, I think ultimately we'd need England to be involved for clout and media coverage purposes. 

France, Wales, Ireland, and Scotland would sadly receive minimal coverage. Add in England and then the BBC (through its Northern English divisions) would then cover at least 4 games of that tournament and likely more. Getting those games covered makes it more likely the rest will get covered (through double headers and/or camera crew teams being recruited from the England coverage to other places). 

Likewise, I think England should use their ability to get teams over here, be that the ANZACs or the Pacific Island teams, to get them games against our surrounding nations too whilst they are here. Call it a 4 nations if it helps. Teams like Lebanon, PNG, Wales and France shouldn't be playing eachother only in World Cups and are far more beneficial than getting spanked by England in X northern town on a hastily organised Thursday night.

[Tommygilf]

7 minutes ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

This made the RFL's decision to stop developing the sport in the other home nations all the more disappointing. Whilst it may or may not technically be the RFL's responsibility, it's absolutely in England's interests to have a strong Wales, Scotland and Ireland.

Exactly, its not their remit, but by god would it put us in a better place now.

[thebrewxi]

6 minutes ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

But in Rocket's defence (which he doesn't need), I don't think Makinson has ever played against Australia.

And the golden boot isnt really a thing is oz. It's the Dalley M that they think is the best player in the world. 

 

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

1 minute ago, Tommygilf said:

Exactly, its not their remit, but by god would it put us in a better place now.

I would like to know what was spent on getting the Combined Nations together this year, and what Wales could have done with that money.

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

1 minute ago, thebrewxi said:

And the golden boot isnt really a thing is oz.

Only when they don't win it! 

[Tommygilf]

3 minutes ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

I would like to know what was spent on getting the Combined Nations together this year, and what Wales could have done with that money.

Tbf, probably a pittance.

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

2 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Tbf, probably a pittance.

Would still like to know. Must be quite a few grand to tempt players to play and Sheens to coach. Plus the accommodation.

[thebrewxi]

Just listened to Chasing Kangaroos from the last few days, and Mr Carbone is thought provoking as always. He's mentioned that the League World Cup 2021 is getting £25M funding from the UK government (which is more than the Sky broadcast deal) as part of the levelling up and "open for business" government narrative.

If the World Cup was to be staged in 2022, that narrative changes and the 25M is not on the table any more.

Surely if this is the case then it's World Cup 2021, or not at all.

[Dunbar]

.

 

Edited July 29, 2021 by Dunbar

[Scubby]

44 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

The IRL should only exist to organise international tournaments and sanction matches that have been organised by the NGBs themselves.

So for your example, Wales are free to organise test matches against Jamaica, USA or Canada. The last time they did however they played in Wakefield.

To be fair Agbrigg does sound like a village in the Valleys

[Gomersall]

https://europeanrugbyleague.com/articles/2001/erl-board-statement-in-support-of-rlwc-2...

[thebrewxi]

11 minutes ago, thebrewxi said:

Just listened to Chasing Kangaroos from the last few days, and Mr Carbone is thought provoking as always. He's mentioned that the League World Cup 2021 is getting £25M funding from the UK government (which is more than the Sky broadcast deal) as part of the levelling up and "open for business" government narrative.

If the World Cup was to be staged in 2022, that narrative changes and the 25M is not on the table any more.

Surely if this is the case then it's World Cup 2021, or not at all.

He's also suggested 2 of Serbia, Spain and South Africa have already been sounded out to replace NZ and Aus...