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Rugby League World Cup 2021 (Merged Threads)


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38 minutes ago, Mr Frisky said:

Agree, I lived in Australia for a few years and loved the place but they have always been behind the rest of the western world by about 10 years in just about every aspect of modern life.

Very insular country and people overall so the WC decision was no surprise.

10 years behind , but under the impression they are 10 years ahead , that's an Aussie 

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19 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

Tbf Newcastle have only had the type of money they are showing for 5 years.  One of those years got covid'd.  

I do not share the belief that Manchester would be incapable of getting 5000-6000 in SL.  

The average age of the fan in a football game in Man Utd is over 40 because a huge chunk are priced out.

A Manchester team would have a fixed stadium with perfect transport links and a healthy player base on its doorstep before anacademy was set up. 

I think those of us in favour are deeply annoyed because the rfl killed it before it had a chance and if we arent targeting a city next to the traditional areas the game is dead. 

And lets say it gets a niche audience.  Well in a city of 500,000 people a niche audience could be 5000-6000 which in a 6500 stadium would look great. 

This is hopefully my last post along this tangent as we risk driving this thread off the subject at hand, the RLWC. What Newcastle have done and continue to do is success. They have been in existence for two decades and are still growing and progressing, as is the NERL community scene. A great problem we have is that too many people seem to think that expansion is creating SL clubs. Expansion is creating RL clubs and players whether that be at SL, Championship, League 1 or community level. Expansion also doesn't just cover the men's game, women's RL, wheelchair RL and PDRL and LDRL are all areas for growth.

To take it back to the men's game by all means clubs can be formed and build up to reach whatever level they can but we shouldn't fixate that that level has to be SL. Nor should we be trying to crowbar them straight into SL hoping their presence will be some form of panacea. If clubs in Manchester, Bristol, Nottingham, Newcastle, Coventry or wherever are going to be the giants of the game then they will be formed (as some of those have been) and will get there. We can't though keep sticking pins in maps and thinking a club in city X,Y or Z will see us better off than one in Warrington, Wigan or Castleford simply because more folk live in that city. The clubs at the top of RL have got there because they built up popularity and a place in the culture of their towns. They produce the players and supporters in sufficient numbers to enable success. If a club appears in a city then if the people that live there go along and like what they see then crowds can build, kids will want to play as well as watch and then community clubs can spring up which would further embed the sport in the local culture. The new pro/semi pro club will then rise to as high a level as it can and will hopefully exist long term. That level does not have to be SL with large crowds it would still be successful expansion. We need to stop thinking it is SL or nothing for new clubs or that big population equates to big crowds and RLs magic bullet.

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1 hour ago, RayCee said:

I'm not a big media follower (can't trust them) but from what I have seen in NZ is it's barely news worthy. In this case not a pro-NRL stance but an acceptance of what they've been fed, that's it's too dangerous to go. 

I imagine it is a case of the NZRL feeding stories to journalists that take and keep the narrative away from the RLWC and their withdrawal to prevent any chance of growing discontent amongst players and fan base.

I apologise for my part in the thread drift.

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This thread is getting more and more reported posts. It’s taking far too much time to moderate compared to the rest of the forum.

Come on, please try to keep it on track and going.

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"When in deadly danger, when beset by doubt; run in little circles, wave your arms and shout"

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4 minutes ago, ckn said:

This thread is getting more and more reported posts. It’s taking far too much time to moderate compared to the rest of the forum.

Come on, please try to keep it on track and going.

Why would anybody feel the need to report a post on this thread ? 

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8 hours ago, fighting irish said:

Oh this is part of the problem, isn't it?

It is so far removed from a Covid ridden hellhole but the poor bug gers believe it is.

I don't know why there has been so little uptake, of the vaccine (fear and suspicion I suppose) but it seems that there is some willful resistance to it.

Their alternative strategy seems to be to stop the virus from propagating widely by using stringent (& punitive) lockdowns.

Good luck with that.

Are they really suggesting that every time someone is identified as suffering the disease they are going to lockdown the locality, while keeping people from visiting (or leaving and returning to) the country indefinitely?

This is a complete absurdity.

They will be cycling in and out of lockdown, (with borders closed) for decades. 

Yes, this is exactly what they are suggesting, and the general population are now so scared they actually support this approach.

As for the vaccines, that’s a whole other ball game. It doesn’t help that the government hasn’t ordered enough, or that the rollout was botched from the start (in the words of the Prime Minister - ‘this is not a race’ 🥺).

It also doesn’t help that the different states, the Premiers, the health officers and the fed government are all giving different messages. In the words of the Qld chief health officer - ‘younger people should not be getting the Astra Zeneca vaccine because there’s more chance of them dying from the vaccine than Covid’ 🥺
Honestly, you couldn’t make it up.

And yes, the attitude here is so insular. The WC decision doesn’t surprise me in the least 

Edited by DiH68
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1 hour ago, THE RED ROOSTER said:

FWIW as far as I am concerned it's not a world cup without Australia and New Zealand.

I'm of a similar mindset. I know it would still be a World Cup in name, but I wouldn't think of it in the same way that I think of previous tournaments. It wouldn't have the same value or meaning to me. If England won, I would consider it to be a hollow victory. People are entitled to take a different view, and I'm happy to award credit for us beating Tonga and Samoa etc., but I've been watching international rugby league since 1990 and I know that Australia (and to a lesser extent New Zealand) are the teams that England are judged against. In all that time, I can't remember England losing a World Cup game to anyone other than those two teams. I think that says it all in terms of how significant Australia and New Zealand are.

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7 minutes ago, 17 stone giant said:

I'm of a similar mindset. I know it would still be a World Cup in name, but I wouldn't think of it in the same way that I think of previous tournaments. It wouldn't have the same value or meaning to me. If England won, I would consider it to be a hollow victory. People are entitled to take a different view, and I'm happy to award credit for us beating Tonga and Samoa etc., but I've been watching international rugby league since 1990 and I know that Australia (and to a lesser extent New Zealand) are the teams that England are judged against. In all that time, I can't remember England losing a World Cup game to anyone other than those two teams. I think that says it all in terms of how significant Australia and New Zealand are.

You’re not wrong about the importance of Australia and New Zealand but it doesn’t mean England cannot hold a successful tournament without them or winning the World Cup wouldn’t be an achievement.

I think of it in Olympic terms like the boycotts of 1980 and 1984, and to a lesser extent the peculiar Russia thing at Tokyo. They diminish the games, sure, but they don’t negate them. 

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9 minutes ago, 17 stone giant said:

I'm of a similar mindset. I know it would still be a World Cup in name, but I wouldn't think of it in the same way that I think of previous tournaments. It wouldn't have the same value or meaning to me. If England won, I would consider it to be a hollow victory. People are entitled to take a different view, and I'm happy to award credit for us beating Tonga and Samoa etc., but I've been watching international rugby league since 1990 and I know that Australia (and to a lesser extent New Zealand) are the teams that England are judged against. In all that time, I can't remember England losing a World Cup game to anyone other than those two teams. I think that says it all in terms of how significant Australia and New Zealand are.

Unfortunately because of the game's perilous position in the UK which all of us here recognize, British RL desperately needs this World Cup to go ahead and be a success.  Consider that fact in the context of Sky having effectively put the sport on probation for the next 2 years with the real possibility that if the RFL and SL can't prove its worth to them during that time they'll pull out altogether.  A successful and profitable World Cup which reaches an expanded audience (even if only for a time) could be a very important part of keeping Sky interested.

The fact that two smallish countries population-wise, in an out of the way part of the world which as @GUBRATSpointed out get little or no "through traffic" so to speak of are so key to the RL World Cup says a lot about where the sport sits in the world, and not in a good way.  Then add to that the fact that in a normal World Cup four of the other quarter-finalists would be even smaller countries — which would never happen in any other sport's World Cup — and I hope that you (and certain other posters here critical of my views) can see why I'm skeptical that even a successful tournament can bring about a material change in the game's prospects in the northern hemisphere.

I'd suggest to @cknthat the tournament's importance to the game's future in the northern hemispere explains why there's been some thread drift here.  With a soccer World Cup at about the same time next year postponement isn't really an option, in the context which I summarized in this post it really is now or never, and the latter could be devastating for the game in the northern hemisphere.

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14 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

Unfortunately because of the game's perilous position in the UK which all of us here recognize, British RL desperately needs this World Cup to go ahead and be a success.  Consider that fact in the context of Sky having effectively put the sport on probation for the next 2 years with the real possibility that if the RFL and SL can't prove its worth to them during that time they'll pull out altogether. 

My hope is that it will be deemed feasible to postpone it until 2022. I will wait for the organisers to make that decision, but that would be my hope.

We can then have Australia and New Zealand (men, women, wheelchair users) here and put on the sort of World Cup that the sport deserves. I'd like to think that Sky would understand why it was delayed, and that they'd be suitably impressed by the show that was put on in 2022.

I guess we'll find out soon what the organisers have decided.

Just finally about the football World Cup, I don't actually see that as a huge barrier to having the RLWC next year. Football is my first love, but the WC isn't scheduled to start until 21 November or something like that. Providing the RL administrators are sensible and make sure the final is played before then, I don't think it will be a problem. Let's be realistic here, it doesn't matter when the RLWC takes place, the airwaves and chat will still always be predominantly (90% plus) about football. It's not as if people everywhere are going to spend the month discussing whether Roby or Hodgson should start for England RL. But that doesn't mean people can't find a couple of hours now and then to watch a RLWC game - especially if it's England. The way people consume their sport is to dip in and out as it suits them. You don't tend to have a month when you're solely devoted to only one sport. This weekend past I watched the RU Lions, the F1 GP, several cricket Hundred games, a bit of the Olympics, and the last 15 minutes of Warrington and Leeds. I'm sure like most people, I pick and choose as it suits me. The idea that RL is going to capture everyone's attention for a month, is not realistic. There will still be other things going on. Obviously you don't want important RLWC fixtures clashing with football world cup games, but that doesn't need to happen. If anything, there might be an opportunity because the football Premier League will stop at least a week or so before the 21st, so you might actually have a couple of weekends where there's no top flight football for the RLWC to compete with.

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This Cup has to take place. there is too much at stake. If it doesn't, you won't see France going down the same road only to  find themselves in  the same position on whether the Aussies will take part. If it takes place without Aussie NZ and is a success(which I am sure it will be}then no problems with France. they will follow.

What brasses me off I thought the Kiwis had more about them than knuckling under to the Aussies

 

 

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If the tokyo olympics can pull it off with over 200 countries competing surely we can do it with 16

Where there is a will there is a way as the saying goes.

Get the players that you need & you have the tournament - Let the NRL sit in there castle surrounded by there moat & let the rest of of the world get on with things & running the best RLWC in 2021

Bring it on.

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8 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Could you imagine the political repercussions in Australia if an Indigenous team (not wearing green and gold and not singing Advance Australia Fair) wins the world cup?

Don't worry the NRL and Uncle Gould would take full credit, and expect 68% of all profits go to clubs as reparations.

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9 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Could you imagine the political repercussions in Australia if an Indigenous team (not wearing green and gold and not singing Advance Australia Fair) wins the world cup?

Some people just want to watch the world burn

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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8 hours ago, Jim from Oz said:

I began following the North Sydney Bears, even though I grew up in the heart of South Sydney territory, because Norths had a winger (the position I played) with the same surname as me !

As good a reason as any Jim! 😆

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17 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Could you imagine the political repercussions in Australia if an Indigenous team (not wearing green and gold and not singing Advance Australia Fair) wins the world cup?

Just competing will have repercussions, but likely not game changing. 

The indigenous population doesn't have a lot of economic or voting power, but the NRL will be very embarrassed when they all come home fit and well talking about what a great time they had, win or lose the NRL will try to sweep it all under the carpet and pretend it never happened.

They will also come looking for revenge against the IRL/RFL at some point, but that's a fight I'm fine with, got to take on the bullies. The IRL needs to quickly push on with strengthening its position beyond this year to counter that.

One big winner would be the RLPA, if this comes off it will show they have real teeth and the NRL should listen to them before making any more authoritarian decisions.

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8 hours ago, 17 stone giant said:

My hope is that it will be deemed feasible to postpone it until 2022. I will wait for the organisers to make that decision, but that would be my hope.

We can then have Australia and New Zealand (men, women, wheelchair users) here and put on the sort of World Cup that the sport deserves. I'd like to think that Sky would understand why it was delayed, and that they'd be suitably impressed by the show that was put on in 2022.

I guess we'll find out soon what the organisers have decided.

 

I doubt Sky will understand it was delayed because the insular, ignorant NRL clubs dont want their players missing the pre-season. Though what its got to do with Sky anyway is beyond me.

Edited by dkw
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4 minutes ago, dkw said:

I doubt Sky will understand it was delayed because the insular, ignorant NRL clubs dont want their players missing the pre-season. Though what its got to do with Sky anyway is beyond me.

You're right, the BBC is the host broadcaster, not Sky. 

But either way, of course they'll understand the true reason why it was cancelled/postponed, they're not on the moon. In fact I'm sure they'll be privvy to a load more sensitive detail around contracts and the like than we are. 

But the fact remains, for sponsors and broadcasters and even ticket holders, righteous indignation against the NRL won't drive clicks, purchases and viewers. 

Stakeholders will take a rational, hard nosed decision on whether 2021 without Aus/NZ, or 2022 still gives them what they signed up for. 

We'll find out soon. 

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2 minutes ago, Toby Chopra said:

You're right, the BBC is the host broadcaster, not Sky. 

But either way, of course they'll understand the true reason why it was cancelled/postponed, they're not on the moon. In fact I'm sure they'll be privvy to a load more sensitive detail around contracts and the like than we are. 

But the fact remains, for sponsors and broadcasters and even ticket holders, righteous indignation against the NRL won't drive clicks, purchases and viewers. 

Stakeholders will take a rational, hard nosed decision on whether 2021 without Aus/NZ, or 2022 still gives them what they signed up for. 

We'll find out soon. 

They will also likely be privy to seeing the discussions showing the organisers doing everything they can to placate the "fears" of the NRL clubs, and then see the disdain they hold that effort in. Everyone can see this nothing to do with Covid, everyone can see its a coordinated effort by the NRL. Do you think the likes of the BBC, the UK Government, Sponsors etc will accept all this delay in good faith, keep all the money investment they are giving hoping the NRL clubs dont see their ass again next year? 

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1 minute ago, dkw said:

They will also likely be privy to seeing the discussions showing the organisers doing everything they can to placate the "fears" of the NRL clubs, and then see the disdain they hold that effort in. Everyone can see this nothing to do with Covid, everyone can see its a coordinated effort by the NRL. Do you think the likes of the BBC, the UK Government, Sponsors etc will accept all this delay in good faith, keep all the money investment they are giving hoping the NRL clubs dont see their ass again next year? 

That's my point: I think the BBC et al will understand perfectly that the NRL are to blame, but in the end they won't much care.

The bottom line is their partners couldn't deliver and that will have both short and long term ramifications for British rugby league. 

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Genuine question- what exactly are the criteria to be selected for the NZ Maoris or Indigenous Australians. Is it just a race qualification or culture or what ? It just doesn't sit well with me tbh. Does this project an image of a 21st century dynamic sport. 

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13 minutes ago, HawkMan said:

Genuine question- what exactly are the criteria to be selected for the NZ Maoris or Indigenous Australians. Is it just a race qualification or culture or what ? It just doesn't sit well with me tbh. Does this project an image of a 21st century dynamic sport. 

That’s an interesting question. I’m not sure to be honest. Given Australia’s history, I’d think a large proportion of people that live here would either by Indigenous or qualify for another (European) nation? But I’m not sure of the qualification for the Indigenous teams. Some people say they’re, maybe, an eighth Indigenous? But they often very much identify as Indigenous. So I genuinely don’t know 

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