Rugby League World Cup 2021 (Merged Threads)

[Liverpool Rover]

13 hours ago, DC77 said:

 There has to be something close to parity, or a continuous challenge, to fire up public/player interest in Australia. That must be the long term goal for England and others.

I fear that if International RL becomes more competitive and Australia can’t be as dominant as they have been in the past then the authorities down there would lose what little interest they have now in playing international games. I really feel that if they can’t be the best and dominant team then they would rather not play at all.

[Mr Frisky]

3 minutes ago, Liverpool Rover said:

I fear that if International RL becomes more competitive and Australia can’t be as dominant as they have been in the past then the authorities down there would lose what little interest they have now in playing international games. I really feel that if they can’t be the best and dominant team then they would rather not play at all.

Some would say given that most of their star players have retired and they have lost 2 of their past 4 games, that Australia are losing interest in international RL because they know they arnt top dog anymore...

As someone on here hinted - running scared...

 

[ghost crayfish]

42 minutes ago, Liverpool Rover said:

I fear that if International RL becomes more competitive and Australia can’t be as dominant as they have been in the past then the authorities down there would lose what little interest they have now in playing international games. I really feel that if they can’t be the best and dominant team then they would rather not play at all.

Garbage.

[Davo5]

48 minutes ago, Liverpool Rover said:

I fear that if International RL becomes more competitive and Australia can’t be as dominant as they have been in the past then the authorities down there would lose what little interest they have now in playing international games. I really feel that if they can’t be the best and dominant team then they would rather not play at all.

I don’t know about that but they’ve certainly avoided Test RL while they’ve been rebuilding since the 2017 WC.

[Hemi4561]

1 hour ago, ghost crayfish said:

Garbage.

So glad you agree on  Vlandys actions, the NRL, and that it would seem that for various reasons the Aussies do not seem to want to play international matches any more. I might have used another term but if you are happy to call them garbage that fine. 

[Tommygilf]

The world cup drama may well have woken the Australians up to the fact that not only are the majority of their competition now qualified to play for other nations, they are willing to actually play for those nations instead of Australia too.

[17 stone giant]

10 minutes ago, Hemi4561 said:

So glad you agree on  Vlandys actions, the NRL, and that it would seem that for various reasons the Aussies do not seem to want to play international matches any more. I might have used another term but if you are happy to call them garbage that fine. 

The poster was clearly calling "garbage" the suggestion that Australia don't want to play anymore because their fear not being the best anymore. I agree that it's a nonsense accusation.

[Hemi4561]

15 minutes ago, 17 stone giant said:

The poster was clearly calling "garbage" the suggestion that Australia don't want to play anymore because their fear not being the best anymore. I agree that it's a nonsense accusation.

Then why aren't they coming?

Why wait to explode a bomb under the competition? Perhaps because if they had done the decent thing by making it clear they would not come 6 months ago, then the competition would have gone on without them thus puncturing the myth that they are the First Nation as far as Rugby league is concerned. 

They are scared, but it is not just one thing that they are scared of, it is as always in the real world a combination of things, and the least of those is COVID. 

[DC77]

18 hours ago, theswanmcr said:

I know what you are saying and especially agree with last point that we and others need to get to that level.

Of course the irony is that this World Cup promised to be the most competitive challenge for Australia yet - with 4 teams capable of winning it. Still way off other sports and they are still favourites but a big step forward.

And ultimately it’s the sport’s World Cup. Even if you win it every time, even if you are a class or more above everyone else and even if you don’t respect it as a competition… the sport’s administration/should have the decency to respect others who do see it in a better light than you and not pull out with 4 minutes notice.

 

While I agree they should have handled it better (4 minutes notice), their general apathy towards international RL is completely understandable, unless you are blinkered.

They have played in every previous RLWC, so they haven’t disrespected it, and in all that time the dial hadn’t budged in terms of “growing the game”. As it happens I think they are genuine in pulling out due to their concern with covid as they are taking extreme measures in Australia, similar to here at the start. The Aussie Olympic team is in a bubble, and competitors go home when they are done. Both the Aussie cricket and RU team are in a bubble when they tour. In contrast players from the NRL would be spread out over 16 international teams, and would have shared facilities with the general public. This is the reason they gave for the differing attitude with other sports. Of course if the RLWC was lucrative they’d almost certainly go the extra mile to make sure they (and the other NRL players) were there. With extra funds from the tournament they would also be able to afford the cost of top notch accommodation, transport, facilities etc. 

[DC77]

On 06/08/2021 at 12:39, Keith989 said:

That's a problem with most European nations, like I said Irish players are now competing against players from across the globe for spots in academies and squads in England, that's one of the main reasons why there has been such a massive decline in the amount of premier league players produced here. Not having a fully professional domestic league to fall back on, where players could compete in European competitions instead of wasting away in the lower leagues in England is criminal.

Scotland are producing far more top level players than we are (hence why they were playing at the euros while we were losing to Luxemburg) and have always had better strength in depth due to their strong domestic league. Once again the "granny" rule has masked where Irish football really is for decades, the only thing is now we are pulling "plastic paddies" out of league one instead of the premier league.

“Hence why they are playing at the Euros”... good lord. The Scots should sign you up as their PR man. Their first tournament in how long? And a tournament that’s become so enlarged that it’s almost harder not to qualify for it. 

Comparatively speaking, Scotland have declined far more than Ireland in that the Scots could have picked an entire squad full of top class talent, now it’s restricted to Andy Robertson (Ryan Tierney too, If being generous). That’s it. From Ally McCoist banging them in for Rangers, to who? *crickets* From Alec McLeish and Willie Miler forming a imperious central defensive partnership for an Aberdeen team who beat Real Madrid to win the UEFA Cup Winners Cup....to who? *crickets* From Dalglish, Souness, Hansen, Law and the greatest Scottish (and Celtic) player ever, Jimmy Johnstone, to who? *crickets*

This decline in spite of having a professional domestic league. The reason for their decline is the same as here, not enough kids are being produced because of the decline in street football which is where most of the previous talent came from. None better than Georgie Best who developed his game on a playing field in his Cregagh estate (now since protected). Where once there were playing fields, now there are housing estates and supermarkets. What’s happened is because the sport is global, Premier League clubs can now fill any shortage of players from Scotland or Ireland with players from around the world that still have street football (front three at Liverpool, Salah from Egypt, Mane from Senegal, Firmino from Brazil, are all a product from playing on the street).

 

[DC77]

On 06/08/2021 at 15:30, Big Picture said:

Gary Carter writing for The Sun reports that Australia and New Zealand could go unpunished after World Cup postponement.

Ultimately the breadwinner cannot be punished. It just happened recently with the Premier League not punishing (to any great degree) the “big six” clubs who were attempting to break away to form a European Super League. Those six clubs generate the most interest and money, and the others rely on them for the vast sums they make. Australia provides how many players across the 16 RLWC teams? It’s a big number. You alienate them they then completely close the door and there is no RLWC again. It unfortunate, but it’s reality.

Edited August 7, 2021 by DC77

[DC77]

11 hours ago, gingerjon said:

This is why it is important to make it clear that the NRL is insular even in comparison with other Australians and Australian sports. It is so insular that it gets a nosebleed at the prospect of playing in Adelaide or Perth.

But surely if Aussies aren’t insular, why would a league run by Aussies be? 

It’s a successful multi billion dollar (Aus) league, they are not incompetent. If something is lucrative, they are not going to turn their nose up at that. 

 

[Keith989]

20 minutes ago, DC77 said:

“Hence why they are playing at the Euros”... good lord. The Scots should sign you up as their PR man. Their first tournament in how long? And a tournament that’s become so enlarged that it’s almost harder not to qualify for it. 

Comparatively speaking, Scotland have declined far more than Ireland in that the Scots could have picked an entire squad full of top class talent, now it’s restricted to Andy Robertson (Ryan Tierney too, If being generous). That’s it. From Ally McCoist banging them in for Rangers, to who? *crickets* From Alec McLeish and Willie Miler forming a imperious central defensive partnership for an Aberdeen team who beat Real Madrid to win the UEFA Cup Winners Cup....to who? *crickets* From Dalglish, Souness, Hansen, Law and the greatest Scottish (and Celtic) player ever, Jimmy Johnstone, to who? *crickets*

This decline in spite of having a professional domestic league. The reason for their decline is the same as here, not enough kids are being produced because of the decline in street football which is where most of the previous talent came from. None better than Georgie Best who developed his game on a playing field in his Cregagh estate (now since protected). Where once there were playing fields, now there are housing estates and supermarkets. What’s happened is because the sport is global, Premier League clubs can now fill any shortage of players from Scotland or Ireland with players from around the world that still have street football (front three at Liverpool, Salah from Egypt, Mane from Senegal, Firmino from Brazil, are all a product from playing on the street).

 

Tell that to the Irish national sides... Don't you understand that it's only now we are seeing the effects of the premier league becoming a global league on us? Scotland with it's fully domestic league and Wales with their fully pro teams in the English leagues are the ones who qualified, whilst we are begging players with Irish grannies in league one to play for us. Is this a coincidence? maybe... Even if it is, there is not one argument that you can make where supporting foreign clubs is beneficially to Irish football on the whole.

[gingerjon]

31 minutes ago, DC77 said:

But surely if Aussies aren’t insular, why would a league run by Aussies be? 

 

And yet here we are with an insular league.

[Dave T]

21 hours ago, DC77 said:

 

The tri (four) nations, honestly how serious is that taken? And do Aussies send their full strength XIII for these? 

I mean, it was obvious you were clueless, and pretty close to being a troll, you didn't need to be quite so obvious with this. 

[fighting irish]

1 hour ago, DC77 said:

But surely if Aussies aren’t insular, why would a league run by Aussies be? 

It’s a successful multi billion dollar (Aus) league, they are not incompetent. If something is lucrative, they are not going to turn their nose up at that. 

 

They see the growth of the International Game as direct competitor to State of Origin and something which can undermine their claim that SoO is the highest standard of RL in the World.

Their wholehearted support for the International game, could see it grow rapidly, and provide the lucre, you claim would change their attitude.

Their support is virtually non-existent, as you know and it is the threat to the credibility of their claims about SoO and the resulting downturn in the fortunes of SoO which a hugely successful World Cup would bring about, that prevents them from giving it the backing they should.

How naive we were to think that we all wanted the same thing. 

[DC77]

1 hour ago, Keith989 said:

Tell that to the Irish national sides... Don't you understand that it's only now we are seeing the effects of the premier league becoming a global league on us? Scotland with it's fully domestic league and Wales with their fully pro teams in the English leagues are the ones who qualified, whilst we are begging players with Irish grannies in league one to play for us. Is this a coincidence? maybe... Even if it is, there is not one argument that you can make where supporting foreign clubs is beneficially to Irish football on the whole.

Ive just outlined that in spite of having a pro domestic league, the Scottish national team has deteriorated to an extent it now has a single quality player (two if being generous). And cherry picking them qualifying for a solitary tournament backs up your point does it? Can I join in? Oh here goes....Ireland qualified for the previous Euros, and in doing so we beat defending world champions Germany, and at the tournament we beat Italy which saw us get out of the group. “Don’t you understand”....Ireland are great!

The deterioration in the Irish national team echoes what has happened to Scotland....there ain’t the quality coming through. Mr J. Giles has spoken often about this, as has the Dunph. 

[DC77]

57 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I mean, it was obvious you were clueless, and pretty close to being a troll, you didn't need to be quite so obvious with this. 

It was a genuine question. To win a three (now four) nations, does it carry much weight? The RLWC you know you face the best of what the opposition has to offer.

[DC77]

57 minutes ago, fighting irish said:

They see the growth of the International Game as direct competitor to State of Origin and something which can undermine their claim that SoO is the highest standard of RL in the World.

Their wholehearted support for the International game, could see it grow rapidly, and provide the lucre, you claim would change their attitude.

Their support is virtually non-existent, as you know and it is the threat to the credibility of their claims about SoO and the resulting downturn in the fortunes of SoO which a hugely successful World Cup would bring about, that prevents them from giving it the backing they should.

How naive we were to think that we all wanted the same thing. 

“They see the growth of the International Game as direct competitor to State of Origin and something which can undermine their claim that SoO is the highest standard of RL in the World.”

Do you genuinely believe this? Didn’t State of Origin take off because of the absence of a top quality international scene? When the Aussies make those great player lists they don’t look outside their shores (which maybe gingerjon would see as insular). They don’t respect the standard outside Australia, and will only consider including a player in such a list who has played in the NRL. I’ve heard in NRL commmetary “such and such a player is good enough for an Queensland/NSW jumper”. Again, this could be construed as insular, or it could just be (like their greatest players list and the NRL) they see Origin as the highest level. 

Don’t English lads talk about the prospect of playing in the NRL as being the ultimate for them? Think I heard a few in the Mick Gledhill podcasts. Players in the Scottish Premiership do this with the Premier League. 

[Damien]

35 minutes ago, DC77 said:

It was a genuine question. To win a three (now four) nations, does it carry much weight? The RLWC you know you face the best of what the opposition has to offer.

At the time the Tri or Four nations carried a lot of weight. Australia, GB and NZ were undoubtedly head and shoulders above the rest and this was long before the rise of the PI nations. The first few Tri Nations were a defacto World Cup as after the 2000 World Cup shambles there wasn't another until 2008. These tournaments in many ways rebuilt international Rugby League and were the pinnacle at that time.

Edited August 7, 2021 by Damien

[Exiled Wiganer]

1 hour ago, DC77 said:

“They see the growth of the International Game as direct competitor to State of Origin and something which can undermine their claim that SoO is the highest standard of RL in the World.”

Do you genuinely believe this? Didn’t State of Origin take off because of the absence of a top quality international scene? When the Aussies make those great player lists they don’t look outside their shores (which maybe gingerjon would see as insular). They don’t respect the standard outside Australia, and will only consider including a player in such a list who has played in the NRL. I’ve heard in NRL commmetary “such and such a player is good enough for an Queensland/NSW jumper”. Again, this could be construed as insular, or it could just be (like their greatest players list and the NRL) they see Origin as the highest level. 

Don’t English lads talk about the prospect of playing in the NRL as being the ultimate for them? Think I heard a few in the Mick Gledhill podcasts. Players in the Scottish Premiership do this with the Premier League. 

I have tried to follow your train of thought, but i am really struggling to see what the point your trying to make is. If it’s NRL have loads of money and the Aussies never lose so they view the international game differently from us, then, err, yes that’s so. I think that would be worth a separate thread, but what this thread is about (without being presumptuous) is THIS World Cup and what they have done over to the rest of the game in the last 3 weeks.

 

If their view has always been exactly as you describe, then they should have raised this in one of the dozens of meetings they attended, seeing first hand the real live thousands of hours spent by hundreds of people to put this together. They could have saved everyone a great deal of trouble by withdrawing at any time earlier than when they chose to do so - on 4 minutes notice. Pretty much everyone on this thread knows the reality of where the power resides, what matters here is how that power has been exercised. 

By all means, though, start a thread on reasons why the Aussies are justified in viewing the rest of the world with contempt. I think that would be an interesting discussion point. 

[Keith989]

4 hours ago, DC77 said:

Ive just outlined that in spite of having a pro domestic league, the Scottish national team has deteriorated to an extent it now has a single quality player (two if being generous). And cherry picking them qualifying for a solitary tournament backs up your point does it? Can I join in? Oh here goes....Ireland qualified for the previous Euros, and in doing so we beat defending world champions Germany, and at the tournament we beat Italy which saw us get out of the group. “Don’t you understand”....Ireland are great!

The deterioration in the Irish national team echoes what has happened to Scotland....there ain’t the quality coming through. Mr J. Giles has spoken often about this, as has the Dunph. 

It's like you're not even reading what I'm posting. Let me make this very simple now... Ireland has relied on the granny rule for decades, now that they don't have that luxury anymore we can now see where Irish football really is. While Scotalnd and Wales are qualifying for major tournament Ireland is being thought a football by lesson Luxembourg. Despite the lucky results in recent years we've made Georgia look like Brazil at times etc etc...

Look support whatever foreign team you want just don't complain when the national side are struggling.

Edited August 8, 2021 by Keith989

[Dave T]

11 hours ago, DC77 said:

It was a genuine question. To win a three (now four) nations, does it carry much weight? The RLWC you know you face the best of what the opposition has to offer.

If you are as knowledgeable about the international game as you present yourself here, you would be well aware of the TriNations and Four Nations tournaments. 

It's an astonishing bit of ignorance to demonstrate. 

[fighting irish]

11 hours ago, DC77 said:

“They see the growth of the International Game as direct competitor to State of Origin and something which can undermine their claim that SoO is the highest standard of RL in the World.”

Do you genuinely believe this? Didn’t State of Origin take off because of the absence of a top quality international scene? When the Aussies make those great player lists they don’t look outside their shores (which maybe gingerjon would see as insular). They don’t respect the standard outside Australia, and will only consider including a player in such a list who has played in the NRL. I’ve heard in NRL commmetary “such and such a player is good enough for an Queensland/NSW jumper”. Again, this could be construed as insular, or it could just be (like their greatest players list and the NRL) they see Origin as the highest level. 

Don’t English lads talk about the prospect of playing in the NRL as being the ultimate for them? Think I heard a few in the Mick Gledhill podcasts. Players in the Scottish Premiership do this with the Premier League. 

Do you think, I would bother to write these comments, if I didn't believe them?

The fact that they don't look outside ''their shores'' is confirmation that they are insular. If they don't respect other nations players then they are willfully blind and the reason for that is they have very strong (commercial) reasons for maintaining the mystical aura around the SoO series.

So they have a huge vested interest in SoO (which is already declining in popularity).

You know, although I notice you've never acknowledged it, that Tonga, and New Zealand have defeated Australia recently and England have pushed them to very narrow victory. It's reasonable to claim then, that both those teams, and perhaps England, would beat Queensland and New South Wales.

When you add in, that PNG beat a tired GB side, you must admit standards are rising in the Pacific. This is cause for concern amongst the NRL/SoO barons and is the justification for my comment that they (the NRL) would see (the developing, ''beefed up'') International competition as a challenger to SoO supremacy in the hearts and minds of the viewing public.

A stronger, International (World Cup) would obviously (eventually) overtake SoO in class and that means megabuck losses in revenue to the ''insular'' NRL.

Be honest, aren't you also more than a tad, ''willfully blind''? 

[rlno1]

20 hours ago, Liverpool Rover said:

I fear that if International RL becomes more competitive and Australia can’t be as dominant as they have been in the past then the authorities down there would lose what little interest they have now in playing international games. I really feel that if they can’t be the best and dominant team then they would rather not play at all.

No need to worry Australia will continue to play international games however this will be on their terms.

What Australia is worried about is Origin with the amount of Pacific Island players now in the NRL thus minimising the pool of players for origin. They now have relaxed rules to allow some of these players to play. In 2011 30% of NRL players were of a PI background this is now 45%.

The NRL must have got wind of the IRL plans for the future for international windows, tournaments etc.which would bring in money for them and also challenge and weaken Origin.

If you read some of the Tweets that Phil Gould posted you can see this is what he was referring to also Richardson's plan for international RL, which isn't a plan really but more about protecting Australia's cash cow Origin.

It would be great if a player like Taumalolo would unite these players and say they will only play under the IRL, thus scuttling the ARLC's plans to capitalise on the Pacific. The way the ARLC has acted would not endear these players to them as they highly value the quality of humility. Something Jon Dutton has shown in bucket loads. We can only hope.