Rugby League World Cup 2021 (Merged Threads)

[The Rocket]

34 minutes ago, DC77 said:

You could only class them as insular if it was across the board, but it isn’t. It’s solely restricted to RL that they don’t look outside their shores. If for example Super League was a billion pound league, with Anfield, Old Trafford, Emirates etc. as RL grounds, and a couple of million in England were playing the sport as opposed to the 44k figure Sport England put out, I think we can be pretty sure the Aussies would be looking up here, a lot. Most of the best Aussie players would be playing over here too as opposed to coming over for a few weeks at the end of their career. The Aussies would be salivating at the prospect of all this, as it would raise the game even more in Australia knowing there was another big player in town. The tv companies would be building games up much like they do with the Ashes, much like they once did with the Bledisloe Cup.

English rugby league (the only other pro league outside Aus) just isn’t a big enough player to turn heads in Aus, and until that changes (which Toronto may have provided a decent first step) they will continue to look towards their own league. NZ RL really is an extension of Aussie RL (especially having a club in it) so them winning the odd game will not cause much of a ripple in Aus. NZ RL in some ways is akin to Welsh football in that both have a pro team(s) in their next door neighbours league (NZ Warriors in Aus, Swansea/Cardiff City in Eng). If NZ RL was the size/standard of the all blacks, with their own top league, income, sizeable playing pool etc. that would be a different story. They be seen as genuine challengers to Aussie supremacy. They would also have won more than one RLWC in half a century that’s for sure.

 

We do still hear the names of English clubs mentioned by our commentators but certainly not in the reverential tones that they were spoken of in 30 years ago. Clubs like Wigan had a mythical status to a young Rugby League fan (was that the club whose jersey was described as `blood and bandages`) and games like the CC final were on FTA over here live early in the morning.

I remember a time in the eighties when there was a host of great English backs playing in the NRL, Lydon, Currier, Schofield, Hanley, Connolly, all class acts who used to be every bit as good as the Aussies and often better. We love having the great English forwards over here, Ward, Morley, etc. etc. etc. but it was the backs they really got you excited about English League. I believe Oliver Gildart is coming to play for the Tigers next year, I know absolutely nothing about him but I`m really looking forward to it.

Another thing that never helps is the Club Challenge with Australian teams travelling to England every year, not even having played a game and often with a host of players sitting it out and more often than not giving the English side 6 weeks into your season a drubbing or certainly winning pretty comfortably. None of this helps the general perception that English Rugby League has fallen off the pace. I think we`ve won 16 out of the last 20.

Another thing I hear a lot of is if it only wasn`t for Dugan`s ankle tap on Grace, and someone`s no-try in Melbourne then the English team may have beaten us, but the fact was they didn`t and didn`t again. When they start winning those close games time and time again then Australian League supporters will sit up.

Best thing that can happen to NH League now is to get Toulouse into your competition. NH League needs more cashed up glamour teams that can put together world class teams and pay top dollar for the very best, this might bring the top young athletes back into you sport and we might start to see a few of those world class backs we used to see that we all so enjoyed and got people excited about watching international Rugby League.

[welshmagpie]

2 hours ago, The Rocket said:

.

Another thing I hear a lot of is if it only wasn`t for Dugan`s ankle tap on Grace,

Oi, hands off! He’s Welsh! 

[Damien]

2 hours ago, The Rocket said:

We do still hear the names of English clubs mentioned by our commentators but certainly not in the reverential tones that they were spoken of in 30 years ago. Clubs like Wigan had a mythical status to a young Rugby League fan (was that the club whose jersey was described as `blood and bandages`) and games like the CC final were on FTA over here live early in the morning.

I remember a time in the eighties when there was a host of great English backs playing in the NRL, Lydon, Currier, Schofield, Hanley, Connolly, all class acts who used to be every bit as good as the Aussies and often better. We love having the great English forwards over here, Ward, Morley, etc. etc. etc. but it was the backs they really got you excited about English League. I believe Oliver Gildart is coming to play for the Tigers next year, I know absolutely nothing about him but I`m really looking forward to it.

Another thing that never helps is the Club Challenge with Australian teams travelling to England every year, not even having played a game and often with a host of players sitting it out and more often than not giving the English side 6 weeks into your season a drubbing or certainly winning pretty comfortably. None of this helps the general perception that English Rugby League has fallen off the pace. I think we`ve won 16 out of the last 20.

Another thing I hear a lot of is if it only wasn`t for Dugan`s ankle tap on Grace, and someone`s no-try in Melbourne then the English team may have beaten us, but the fact was they didn`t and didn`t again. When they start winning those close games time and time again then Australian League supporters will sit up.

Best thing that can happen to NH League now is to get Toulouse into your competition. NH League needs more cashed up glamour teams that can put together world class teams and pay top dollar for the very best, this might bring the top young athletes back into you sport and we might start to see a few of those world class backs we used to see that we all so enjoyed and got people excited about watching international Rugby League.

I agree with all of this.

The annoying thing about the World Club Challenge is that the 2 times it has been held in Australia the attendances have been fantastic. In 2014 Sydney City Roosters v Wigan got over 30k, which great and far higher than an average Roosters game. In 1994 Brisbane v Wigan was a 55k sell out. It's crazy that some are so dismissive of it when attendances suggest there is plenty of interest.

[Scubby]

9 minutes ago, Damien said:

I agree with all of this.

The annoying thing about the World Club Challenge is that the 2 times it has been held in Australia the attendances have been fantastic. In 2014 Sydney City Roosters v Wigan got over 30k, which great and far higher than an average Roosters game. In 1994 Brisbane v Wigan was a 55k sell out. It's crazy that some are so dismissive of it when attendances suggest there is plenty of interest.

It was also held in Melbourne in 2018 and got 19,062

[tiffers]

3 hours ago, The Rocket said:

Best thing that can happen to NH League now is to get Toulouse into your competition. NH League needs more cashed up glamour teams that can put together world class teams and pay top dollar for the very best, this might bring the top young athletes back into you sport and we might start to see a few of those world class backs we used to see that we all so enjoyed and got people excited about watching international Rugby League.

We have to go so much further than adding Toulouse.

We need a proper NH growth strategy focused on the long-term development of the UK game (might I add that Toulouse being in SL is a must and I do agree with that being the short term decision that needs to be made ASAP), whilst building a NH international calendar to support developing nations.

It's about creating a perpetually increasing circle of:

International matches = profits for IRL & individual federations = funding elite & amateur RL = increasing volumes of players = increasing volumes of talent = International matches....

Until we get this started, rolling and building, we will never consistently match the SH.

[DC77]

3 hours ago, The Rocket said:

We do still hear the names of English clubs mentioned by our commentators but certainly not in the reverential tones that they were spoken of in 30 years ago. Clubs like Wigan had a mythical status to a young Rugby League fan (was that the club whose jersey was described as `blood and bandages`) and games like the CC final were on FTA over here live early in the morning.

I remember a time in the eighties when there was a host of great English backs playing in the NRL, Lydon, Currier, Schofield, Hanley, Connolly, all class acts who used to be every bit as good as the Aussies and often better. We love having the great English forwards over here, Ward, Morley, etc. etc. etc. but it was the backs they really got you excited about English League. I believe Oliver Gildart is coming to play for the Tigers next year, I know absolutely nothing about him but I`m really looking forward to it.

Another thing that never helps is the Club Challenge with Australian teams travelling to England every year, not even having played a game and often with a host of players sitting it out and more often than not giving the English side 6 weeks into your season a drubbing or certainly winning pretty comfortably. None of this helps the general perception that English Rugby League has fallen off the pace. I think we`ve won 16 out of the last 20.

Another thing I hear a lot of is if it only wasn`t for Dugan`s ankle tap on Grace, and someone`s no-try in Melbourne then the English team may have beaten us, but the fact was they didn`t and didn`t again. When they start winning those close games time and time again then Australian League supporters will sit up.

Best thing that can happen to NH League now is to get Toulouse into your competition. NH League needs more cashed up glamour teams that can put together world class teams and pay top dollar for the very best, this might bring the top young athletes back into you sport and we might start to see a few of those world class backs we used to see that we all so enjoyed and got people excited about watching international Rugby League.

An Aussie, saying better quality in the NH, will get Aussies excited about watching international RL.

....and yet there’s some on here (in fantasy land) who think the opposite. That a stronger England, and a challenge to Aussie dominance, will see Aussies have even less interest. 

The Aussie has spoken folks.

Also agree with the stars point. From what I’ve seen Schofield was a maverick of a player. I enjoy listening to him partly for this reason. He also detested the stifling style of Wayne Bennett with England and demanded a return to their open running style of old. That ankle tap on Grace game you mention, that was an 80 minute arm wrestle.

This point about the lack of eye catching players I’ve touched on previously, and put it down to the more defensive nature of the game today. RU certainly has killed almost all creativity with the field now overcrowded with mammoth players. RL hasn’t gone as far down this attritional path, but it’s not as open or swashbuckling as previous.

Stars are vital for the growth of any sport. With Messi leaving Barcelona one commentator today called him a “tourist attraction” in that wherever he plays next (possibly Paris) people will travel from everywhere to that location just to see him in the flesh. Not that I’m comparing a RL player (or a player in any sport) to Messi as his status is on another level but RL (certainly in England) doesn’t have one player that is a draw, that would make a non RL devotee, or an Aussie, or dare I say it even a RL devotee, tune in to watch him and his team. I remember being glued to the screen when Ronaldo (Brazilian) played for Barcelona, likewise Lomu with NZ...every time they got the ball they lit up the place. With this RLWC being postponed, there wasn’t any star/household name for the media to grab hold of for a response, so there wasn’t much noise about it. 

[The Rocket]

42 minutes ago, Damien said:

I agree with all of this.

The annoying thing about the World Club Challenge is that the 2 times it has been held in Australia the attendances have been fantastic. In 2014 Sydney City Roosters v Wigan got over 30k, which great and far higher than an average Roosters game. In 1994 Brisbane v Wigan was a 55k sell out. It's crazy that some are so dismissive of it when attendances suggest there is plenty of interest.

Wasn`t a bad looking side Wigan in 1994, just from the score card I can see, Dennis Betts, Jason Robinson and I assume F. Botica is the union player Frano Botica and to have a win in front of 55 000, that`s what I`d like to see more of.

And there is plenty of interest Damien and I dare say if St. Helens came out here next year they`d get close to 20 000 again at Melbourne, but I don`t want to harp on this and I`m not trying to rub anyone`s nose in it but the games would have to be a lot closer if it was to maintain interest than those two most recent trips out here. Especially if it was going to be played year about.

I had a thought on this international thing today. We`ve been hosting India in cricket over here forever and we always used to flog them mercilessly when they visited, they could hardly get a crowd and never played a five test series cause there just wasn`t the interest. And this is all despite the fact winning in India was considered the holy grail for Australian cricket captains because it had only been done once since 1970. Anyway they came out here in 2019/20 and beat us here for the first time in forever, by the end of the series they were pulling massive crowds and ratings as we all flocked to see this Indian team full of stars, you`d know them, Bumrah, Shami, Yadav, Kohli, Pujara and so on, so much so we couldn`t wait to get them back out here and they toured again 2020/21, this time we were waiting for them and they packed out grounds all over the country and broke TV viewer ratings records, and even better they beat us again. All the talk now is about getting them back and 5-test series.

 I think that if the same could be replicated with the English Rugby League team the exact same thing would happen very quickly. We do crave internationals but they have got to be good and have to know it`s going to be a fight and we can`t beat teams in second gear or occasionally get beaten if we have an off day.

Any way I`m not going to keep going on about this and I`m not trying to point score, I`m just trying to explain it from an Australians perspective.

 

[GUBRATS]

6 hours ago, DC77 said:

I’m coming from a more neutral perspective as an outsider with no foot in either camp, so I’m not taking sides here. 

The international game not offering loads (or any?) money is tied into the reason the Aussies have pulled out of the RLWC. I believe they are genuine with their concern over covid (their lockdown in Australia would back this up) and that there is no ulterior motive, but at the same time had the international game been lucrative, meaning the Aussies (and all the NRL players they send out to the other teams) could receive no expense spared top notch facilities, travel, hotels etc, they’d currently be planning to play in the tournament. The fella from NRL.com on the BBC podcast spoke about players having to share facilities with the public. This is in contrast to their other sports teams including the Olympians.

 

The 4 minutes notice I agree was shabby. Dutton has been a class act (even going as far as to apologise for the tournament not happening) so the Aussies could learn a thing or two about decorum. Not sure I agree with withdrawing earlier as the covid situation in Oz changed. Look at the Olympics, spectators were only prevented from attending a matter of weeks before the games, so nobody can really plan too far ahead. The Premier League kicks off this weekend, full stadiums, I’m wondering for how long for. We are at the mercy of this virus. 

Vaccination 

[wilsontown]

Aaron Bower in the Guardian:

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2021/aug/09/world-cup-postponement-adds-to-uncertainty-over-rugby-leagues-future

Not sure how he concludes that the world cup will happen in 2022 "come what may", but hopefully he knows something I don't.

[Big Picture]

1 hour ago, tiffers said:

We have to go so much further than adding Toulouse.

We need a proper NH growth strategy focused on the long-term development of the UK game (might I add that Toulouse being in SL is a must and I do agree with that being the short term decision that needs to be made ASAP), whilst building a NH international calendar to support developing nations.

It's about creating a perpetually increasing circle of:

International matches = profits for IRL & individual federations = funding elite & amateur RL = increasing volumes of players = increasing volumes of talent = International matches....

Until we get this started, rolling and building, we will never consistently match the SH.

You have it a bit backwards there.  The International game can't generate profits for ILR and individual federations unless those Internationals become big events played by full time pros, and for that a league must first exist which can provide somewhere for full time pros from all the relevant countries to play.  Until that league does exist, there won't be any profitable Internationals other than those against Australia and New Zealand.

[Exiled Wiganer]

1 hour ago, Big Picture said:

You have it a bit backwards there.  The International game can't generate profits for ILR and individual federations unless those Internationals become big events played by full time pros, and for that a league must first exist which can provide somewhere for full time pros from all the relevant countries to play.  Until that league does exist, there won't be any profitable Internationals other than those against Australia and New Zealand.

I tend not to respond to AFL trolls, but in this case I will make an exception. This is complete nonsense - all of PNG, Tonga, Samoa, France, Fiji or Wales have played profitable internationals in front of 5 figure crowds without NZ and Aus. Indeed, we could have run a superb tournament with those teams. plus England, had we had a year’s notice that they could not be bothered coming.

You could sell many 10s of thousands of tickets for a Tonga - England series (which I would much prefer to playing NZ), and every game would be a classic. This down playing of the rest of the world is wilful ignorance/stupidity. It’s like the poster who dismisses the 4 minutes notice as “shabby”. No, it is far far worse than that - it entirely exploded the tournament for no benefit to anyone (unless the NRL considers every other nation suffering to be a benefit). 

[Big Picture]

1 minute ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

I tend not to respond to AFL trolls, but in this case I will make an exception. This is complete nonsense - all of PNG, Tonga, Samoa, France, Fiji or Wales have played profitable internationals in front of 5 figure crowds without NZ and Aus. Indeed, we could have run a superb tournament with those teams. plus England, had we had a year’s notice that they could not be bothered coming.

You could sell many 10s of thousands of tickets for a Tonga - England series (which I would much prefer to playing NZ), and every game would be a classic. This down playing of the rest of the world is wilful ignorance/stupidity. It’s like the poster who dismisses the 4 minutes notice as “shabby”. No, it is far far worse than that - it entirely exploded the tournament for no benefit to anyone (unless the NRL considers every other nation suffering to be a benefit). 

You mistake me there, I have no interest in Aussie Rules.  What evidence do you have to back up your contention that PNG, Tonga, Samoa, France, Fiji have Wales have played profitable internationals against each other?  Have you seen the figures from those matches?  The fact remains that New Zealand has always been a much bigger draw in the UK than any of those other countries.

 

[Dave T]

3 hours ago, wilsontown said:

Aaron Bower in the Guardian:

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2021/aug/09/world-cup-postponement-adds-to-uncertainty-over-rugby-leagues-future

Not sure how he concludes that the world cup will happen in 2022 "come what may", but hopefully he knows something I don't.

There are plenty of throwaway comments in there about clubs in the UK being hit much much harder than their NRL counterparts, and that they are barely surviving. It would be good if journos provided some background to claims like this instead of just giving opinion pieces. 

I don't doubt there are challenges, but if you are going to have a whole article about how UK RL is on its death bed it'd be good to have a bit more substance than just because he says it is. 

[Lowdesert]

16 minutes ago, Dave T said:

There are plenty of throwaway comments in there about clubs in the UK being hit much much harder than their NRL counterparts, and that they are barely surviving. It would be good if journos provided some background to claims like this instead of just giving opinion pieces. 

I don't doubt there are challenges, but if you are going to have a whole article about how UK RL is on its death bed it'd be good to have a bit more substance than just because he says it is. 

Simple Google searches would be a start.  

 

[Jim from Oz]

OMG I've actually got a reply from the NRL regarding my email sent to them 3 weeks ago registering my absolute disgust at the decision to cancel the RLWC :

 

Dear Jim

 

Thank you for your email. We always appreciate receiving correspondence from long-standing supporters of the game like you so thank you for taking the time to write to us.

 

We welcome your comments and I have ensured your views are registered. You would now be aware that Rugby League World Cup 2021 together with the UK Government recently announcement the postponement of the event to 2022.

 

Thanks again for writing to us, Jim, and for your loyal support of rugby league. Your views are welcome and have been registered.

 

Kind regards

 

NRL Feedback Team

[Jim from Oz]

I am going to reply by saying I am disgusted by the postponement etc

[Eddie]

1 hour ago, Jim from Oz said:

OMG I've actually got a reply from the NRL regarding my email sent to them 3 weeks ago registering my absolute disgust at the decision to cancel the RLWC :

 

Dear Jim

 

Thank you for your email. We always appreciate receiving correspondence from long-standing supporters of the game like you so thank you for taking the time to write to us.

 

We welcome your comments and I have ensured your views are registered. You would now be aware that Rugby League World Cup 2021 together with the UK Government recently announcement the postponement of the event to 2022.

 

Thanks again for writing to us, Jim, and for your loyal support of rugby league. Your views are welcome and have been registered.

 

Kind regards

 

NRL Feedback Team

Well they obviously didn’t read your email and C&Pd that staple response - would have been better if they just hadn’t replied. 

[rlno1]

Great podcast here with IRL boss Troy Grant, talks about RLWC2021 and future of international RL

Explains alot to give us hope

https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/chasing-kangaroos-for-international-rugby-league-fans/id1441882710

[Jim from Oz]

53 minutes ago, rlno1 said:

Great podcast here with IRL boss Troy Grant, talks about RLWC2021 and future of international RL

Explains alot to give us hope

https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/chasing-kangaroos-for-international-rugby-league-fans/id1441882710

Can someone please summarise what Troy Grant says? Thanks

(Will listen when I can, just snowed under with work!)

Edited August 10, 2021 by Jim from Oz

[Damien]

3 hours ago, Jim from Oz said:

OMG I've actually got a reply from the NRL regarding my email sent to them 3 weeks ago registering my absolute disgust at the decision to cancel the RLWC :

 

Dear Jim

 

Thank you for your email. We always appreciate receiving correspondence from long-standing supporters of the game like you so thank you for taking the time to write to us.

 

We welcome your comments and I have ensured your views are registered. You would now be aware that Rugby League World Cup 2021 together with the UK Government recently announcement the postponement of the event to 2022.

 

Thanks again for writing to us, Jim, and for your loyal support of rugby league. Your views are welcome and have been registered.

 

Kind regards

 

NRL Feedback Team

Registered your comments = They don't care and have simply sent this generic, copy and paste email response. 

That email shows the complete disdain they have for fan's feelings on this issue.

[Jim from Oz]

Agreed that they are treating my comments with contempt but I've just sent this in as my reply:

 

Hello NRL Feedback Team,

 

Thank you for your reply and for registering my concerns.

 

Can you also register the following concerns: until the ARLC and the NZRL sign the participation agreements for the (now postponed 2021) RLWC to be held in 2022, I will NOT follow/watch/buy/consume any NRL content whatsoever on TV, in newspapers, on the internet or at the grounds.

 

I remain utterly disgusted at the actions of the ARLC and the NZRL at pulling out of the 2021 RLWC, and do not for one minute believe the COVID excuse.

 

Forty-six years of being a RL fan and I'm not watching one minute of RL in any shape or form until those participation agreements are signed.

 

And if they are not signed, I will walk away from the game forever.

 

Have I expressed enough my disgust? I hope that it "registers" with the ARLC and the NZRL.

[Damien]

Is Greg Peters still in hiding after those first couple of days? Is he just waiting on the NRL to tell him what to say next?

[fighting irish]

8 hours ago, Jim from Oz said:

OMG I've actually got a reply from the NRL regarding my email sent to them 3 weeks ago registering my absolute disgust at the decision to cancel the RLWC :

 

Dear Jim

 

Thank you for your email. We always appreciate receiving correspondence from long-standing supporters of the game like you so thank you for taking the time to write to us.

 

We welcome your comments and I have ensured your views are registered. You would now be aware that Rugby League World Cup 2021 together with the UK Government recently announcement the postponement of the event to 2022.

 

Thanks again for writing to us, Jim, and for your loyal support of rugby league. Your views are welcome and have been registered.

 

Kind regards

 

NRL Feedback Team

I received the exact same email but with my own name in the salutation. Big effort indeed.

[DC77]

The more I hear from the Aussie side on this (the last being the BBC podcast from 5 August which I heard yesterday) the more the English response reeks of the insular “little Englander”. 

The NZ players from the NRL have been stuck in Aus and cannot get back to NZ before Christmas. And yet we have folk here, including esteemed folk on Forty20, claiming the virus is just an excuse for the Aussies/Kiwis not travelling 10,000 miles to a virus riddled island and that there is an ulterior motive. The BBC presenter, after hammering the Aussies in multiple BBC podcasts, finally gave the Aussies a brief consideration after hearing about the extreme situation in Aus from the NRL.com fella. How gracious of him. 

I get now why Vlandys responded in the way he did (not a colonial outpost, we are a sovereign nation). 

 

[Tommygilf]

1 minute ago, DC77 said:

The more I hear from the Aussie side on this (the last being the BBC podcast from 5 August which I heard yesterday) the more the English response reeks of the insular “little Englander”. 

The NZ players from the NRL have been stuck in Aus and cannot get back to NZ before Christmas. And yet we have folk here, including esteemed folk on Forty20, claiming the virus is just an excuse for the Aussies/Kiwis not travelling 10,000 miles to a virus riddled island and that there is an ulterior motive. The BBC presenter, after hammering the Aussies in multiple BBC podcasts, finally gave the Aussies a brief consideration after hearing about the extreme situation in Aus from the NRL.com fella. How gracious of him. 

I get now why Vlandys responded in the way he did (not a colonial outpost, we are a sovereign nation). 

 

That would all be fantastically true if the sabotage plan was limited to Australians and Kiwis.

Because that failed to collapse the World Cup as they had hoped, the NRL and its clubs turned to pressuring the players of other nations and the Indigenous squads into not going. Much in the same way they did over the England vs Kiwis game in Denver.

Again, for people so concerned with "player welfare", it is truly shocking that the RLPA stated they weren't even asked prior to the Kiwi and Kangaroo withdrawal. Its almost like it has nothing to do with player welfare!

If you believe this is anything but self interested NRL sabotage, you're kidding yourself.