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Rugby League World Cup 2021 (Merged Threads)


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1 hour ago, UTK said:

I still think it's fair to say that it's an unnecessary comment from a person holding a position of power above Olakau'atu, and one that resonates with outdated views of the representative scene.

"As far as his heritage and Tonga, it's always going to be there" - is Hasler implying Origin isn't always going to exist? Tonga haven't played in 3 years and as a result Olakau'atu is yet to make his international debut, NSW have played every year and will continue to do so - Origin will always be there for Haumole as well so the comment is just exposing some of Hasler's bias. 

"Origin is a rare game. It's a piece of history for players' aspirations" - Despite the theatre that inevitably surrounds Origin the International game is still the highest level of the sport, winning a WC for Tonga is objectively a far greater achievement than winning a SOO series and this test match is important to building toward that goal.

I say all this as an Australian and a passionate supporter of NSW/Origin, Hasler is just out of touch with the changing scene that is representative football. A head coach importing those views on his players is entirely unnecessary and doesn't say a lot for his views on his players autonomy.

Highly doubt you'd be singing that tune if Des told him to play for Tonga. 

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1 hour ago, UTK said:

I still think it's fair to say that it's an unnecessary comment from a person holding a position of power above Olakau'atu, and one that resonates with outdated views of the representative scene.

"As far as his heritage and Tonga, it's always going to be there" - is Hasler implying Origin isn't always going to exist? Tonga haven't played in 3 years and as a result Olakau'atu is yet to make his international debut, NSW have played every year and will continue to do so - Origin will always be there for Haumole as well so the comment is just exposing some of Hasler's bias. 

"Origin is a rare game. It's a piece of history for players' aspirations" - Despite the theatre that inevitably surrounds Origin the International game is still the highest level of the sport, winning a WC for Tonga is objectively a far greater achievement than winning a SOO series and this test match is important to building toward that goal.

I say all this as an Australian and a passionate supporter of NSW/Origin, Hasler is just out of touch with the changing scene that is representative football. A head coach importing those views on his players is entirely unnecessary and doesn't say a lot for his views on his players autonomy.

Hasler is renowned for the close relationships he has with his players, often described as an ` us against the world `mentality. Even recently he sat in on every day of the ratbag Dylan Walker`s domestic assault trial in support of Walker, even driving him to court sometimes.

I think perhaps you may have misinterpreted his comments to Olakau`atu. Hasler will want what is best for him, getting picked for NSW is going to be harder than it will be for him to be picked for Tonga, these chances mightn`t come along too often. In fact you`d have to think he is a long way from a certainty even now, especially given his reputation of being somewhat of a flat-track bully who doesn`t really fire against the big teams.

I`d say given Hasler`s attitude towards his players he`s thinking grab the Origin experience now if you get the chance, there will be a month in camp with the Tongan team at the end of the year if you desire to pursue that as well.

 

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1 hour ago, ghost crayfish said:

Highly doubt you'd be singing that tune if Des told him to play for Tonga. 

The point is Des shouldn't really be influencing him either way, the bloke has stated that he wants to represent Tonga and that's entirely his prerogative just as it would be if he chose NSW.

56 minutes ago, The Rocket said:

Hasler is renowned for the close relationships he has with his players, often described as an ` us against the world `mentality. Even recently he sat in on every day of the ratbag Dylan Walker`s domestic assault trial in support of Walker, even driving him to court sometimes.

I think perhaps you may have misinterpreted his comments to Olakau`atu. Hasler will want what is best for him, getting picked for NSW is going to be harder than it will be for him to be picked for Tonga, these chances mightn`t come along too often. In fact you`d have to think he is a long way from a certainty even now, especially given his reputation of being somewhat of a flat-track bully who doesn`t really fire against the big teams.

I`d say given Hasler`s attitude towards his players he`s thinking grab the Origin experience now if you get the chance, there will be a month in camp with the Tongan team at the end of the year if you desire to pursue that as well.

 

If Tariq Sims and Liam Martin can get starting gigs for NSW Olakau'atu can be pretty confident there's going to be more opportunities for him in the future, he's 23 and as far as edge backrowers go not many in that age group get close to him.

Looking at the Tongan backrow options of David Fifita, Sitili Tupouniua, Keaon Koloamatangi and Tevita Pangai Jnr his selection chances are fairly similar in both and his commitment at this point in time may help his chances at the end of the season. 

As for the game itself, NZ are of a higher standard than QLD, particularly in the pack (there's maybe 1-2 QLD forwards that would make the Kiwis side) so I struggle to see how testing himself in that arena is a poorer decision for his career vs playing against QLD.

 

Edited by UTK
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Hasler is probably looking out and wanting to guide Olakau'atu in the direction that he sees as best, or the one that is harder and carries more prestige, in his eyes.

I just think it betrays a lack of valuing towards internationals, perhaps somewhat subconsciously. He is a genuine and passionately protective guy, so I have a lot of regard for him.

I just hope Olakau'atu makes the best choice for himself, without being pushed or cajoled.

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15 hours ago, Farmduck said:

It's shocking to think that a player who was born in Sydney and lived here his whole life might end up playing for NSW or Australia. It shouldn't be allowed.

I have nothing against him electing for NSW and Oz.

I just find the implications in Hasler's remarks a bit troubling.

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Reported in the Sydney Morning Herald:

Tonga has every reason to feel buoyant about its prospects. Kristian Woolf’s team has beaten Australia, New Zealand and England in recent meetings and the Tongan government has indicated it could invest up to $1 million to bolster the nation’s World Cup bid. Players could be in line for bonus payments should they hold the trophy aloft, resulting in them being properly remunerated for the first time.

Also reported that tournament head Jon Dutton is in Australia to wrap up a WC broadcast deal expected to be announced in the next two weeks.

 

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We might get some better World Cup coverage on Welsh media. Caroline Hitt. producer and presenter of the  the BBC documentary The Rugby Codebreakers  has just been appointed the new Editor of BBC Radio Wales and Sport.

😊

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/award-winning-western-mail-columnist-24303624

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Under Scrutiny by the Right-On Thought Police

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Dutton pretty much confirming that the offers aren't good from Oz. Obviously negotiating tactic, but it's quite depressing that we are talking about broadcasting through an app because there isn't decent levels of interest in the biggest RL nation in the world for what should be a superb World Cup. 

For me one of the biggest bits of incompetence over the last few decades with things like this is that we havent tried to run events with broadcasting in mind. Scheduling has been sporadic - playing World Cup openers at times that do not allow for maximising viewers on both sides of the world is basic stuff. IIRC, 

The last World Cup opener saw England play their first game on a Friday morning here, hardly a great slot for getting numbers. World Club Challenges have been played so they are on in Oz at 4am on a Monday morning. 

We are now getting the rewards for things like that. We need to be really strong on scheduling to provide live content that ticks boxes on both sides of the world. 

It looks slightly better this time - all of Australia's games will be early Sat or Sunday morning, but NZ's opener will be early Monday morning. All of Tonga's group games will be midweek mornings. 

So there are still quite a few games that will be early morning midweek. 

 

Edited by Dave T
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2 hours ago, Dave T said:

Dutton pretty much confirming that the offers aren't good from Oz. Obviously negotiating tactic, but it's quite depressing that we are talking about broadcasting through an app because there isn't decent levels of interest in the biggest RL nation in the world for what should be a superb World Cup. 

For me one of the biggest bits of incompetence over the last few decades with things like this is that we havent tried to run events with broadcasting in mind. Scheduling has been sporadic - playing World Cup openers at times that do not allow for maximising viewers on both sides of the world is basic stuff. IIRC, 

The last World Cup opener saw England play their first game on a Friday morning here, hardly a great slot for getting numbers. World Club Challenges have been played so they are on in Oz at 4am on a Monday morning. 

We are now getting the rewards for things like that. We need to be really strong on scheduling to provide live content that ticks boxes on both sides of the world. 

It looks slightly better this time - all of Australia's games will be early Sat or Sunday morning, but NZ's opener will be early Monday morning. All of Tonga's group games will be midweek mornings. 

So there are still quite a few games that will be early morning midweek. 

 

You're right, but I don't put it down to general incompetence, I suspect it's clearly about maximising in-ground attendances, which are vulnerable. Unlike other global tournaments, where major team sellouts are usually guaranteed regardless of start time, we're sadly not at that position yet so can't risk a short term financial hit for the long term benefit of decent TV audiences.

All that said, looking at the schedule, I can see one or two games that could be tweaked while still meeting both aims. 

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11 minutes ago, Toby Chopra said:

You're right, but I don't put it down to general incompetence, I suspect it's clearly about maximising in-ground attendances, which are vulnerable. Unlike other global tournaments, where major team sellouts are usually guaranteed regardless of start time, we're sadly not at that position yet so can't risk a short term financial hit for the long term benefit of decent TV audiences.

All that said, looking at the schedule, I can see one or two games that could be tweaked while still meeting both aims. 

That isn't true really. The World Club game in particular is the best example, it's had some rubbish times. It has generally moved around for the home broadcaster, if Sky want it at 6pm on a Sunday (not a major slot for crowds) that's where it has been. 

The problem is that by taking these short term decisions, you are never building up any kind of market with international rights. 

If we look at the three main factors, local rights, international rights and fans, the 3rd one is pretty robust, the 1st one gets treated like king, and international rights are all but ignored. This sin why we are not getting offers, we haven't built up a market. 

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8 minutes ago, Dave T said:

That isn't true really. The World Club game in particular is the best example, it's had some rubbish times. It has generally moved around for the home broadcaster, if Sky want it at 6pm on a Sunday (not a major slot for crowds) that's where it has been. 

The problem is that by taking these short term decisions, you are never building up any kind of market with international rights. 

If we look at the three main factors, local rights, international rights and fans, the 3rd one is pretty robust, the 1st one gets treated like king, and international rights are all but ignored. This sin why we are not getting offers, we haven't built up a market. 

I certainly agree we haven't built up an overseas rights market, but it's almost inevitable when each different organising committee, and in WCC's case another org entirely, are all doing their own thing, and trying to maximise the viability of their own event. There is no "we" sadly. Plus of course there's no schedule of games to sell anyway.

But specifically in terms of this coming World Cup, looking at the schedule it looks like the RLWC2021 org committee have sat down with the BBC and agreed certain windows for key games - ie England to play on Saturday afternoon each week, the knockouts - and then built the rest around selling tickets, given most games will be red button, not network broadcast. 

Within that structure they could have been more accommodating to SH TV audiences. For instance, in week one if we swapped Tonga-PNG (currently Tues night in St Helens) with Scotland-Italy (Sunday lunchtime in Newcastle) I think we'd get better SH viewing figures, lower crowds overall and similar NH TV viewing.

I don't think the BBC have dictated that running order, I think RLWC are prioritising what will get the most through the door, with little thought for SH audiences, given no overseas TV deal was in place when the schedule was done.            

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2 minutes ago, Toby Chopra said:

I certainly agree we haven't built up an overseas rights market, but it's almost inevitable when each different organising committee, and in WCC's case another org entirely, are all doing their own thing, and trying to maximise the viability of their own event. There is no "we" sadly. Plus of course there's no schedule of games to sell anyway.

But specifically in terms of this coming World Cup, looking at the schedule it looks like the RLWC2021 org committee have sat down with the BBC and agreed certain windows for key games - ie England to play on Saturday afternoon each week, the knockouts - and then built the rest around selling tickets, given most games will be red button, not network broadcast. 

Within that structure they could have been more accommodating to SH TV audiences. For instance, in week one if we swapped Tonga-PNG (currently Tues night in St Helens) with Scotland-Italy (Sunday lunchtime in Newcastle) I think we'd get better SH viewing figures, lower crowds overall and similar NH TV viewing.

I don't think the BBC have dictated that running order, I think RLWC are prioritising what will get the most through the door, with little thought for SH audiences, given no overseas TV deal was in place when the schedule was done.            

You'll notice I highlighted that this WC has been better organised on this front. But the lack of an Aussie lucrative bidder is the output of years of neglect imho. 

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33 minutes ago, Dave T said:

You'll notice I highlighted that this WC has been better organised on this front. But the lack of an Aussie lucrative bidder is the output of years of neglect imho. 

But its neglect generally by the Aussies with regards the international game. They run it down at every opportunity and make move after move to place it below SOO. The moment the international game went on another level and surpassed SOO in terms of players, standard and enjoyment this went into overdrive. No wonder it then becomes a hard sell.

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2 minutes ago, Damien said:

But its neglect generally by the Aussies with regards the international game. They run it down at every opportunity and make move after move to place it below SOO. The moment the international game went on another level and surpassed SOO in terms of players, standard and enjoyment this went into overdrive. No wonder it then becomes a hard sell.

We need to be careful of overstating this and excusing poor things that we do.

We know there are challenges, but having poor broadcasting strategies and then just pinning it on the Aussies won't help. 

The culture and attitudes to international RL is different over there, so we need to be smarter in what we do. We've done very little smart stuff. 

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12 minutes ago, Dave T said:

We need to be careful of overstating this and excusing poor things that we do.

We know there are challenges, but having poor broadcasting strategies and then just pinning it on the Aussies won't help. 

The culture and attitudes to international RL is different over there, so we need to be smarter in what we do. We've done very little smart stuff. 

There is no overstating the detrimental effect that talking down and destroying a product does when it comes to selling the rights to that product.

Yes some tweaking of scheduling may help, and I do agree with what you say, but that is not the reason why rights are still unsold. Rivals see their events sold in Australia with matches at crazy times.

To be fair as well a deal was supposedly done with Sports Flick for $5 million, with some money paid, which fell through.

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3 minutes ago, Damien said:

There is no overstating the detrimental effect that talking down and destroying a product does when it comes to selling the rights to that product.

Yes some tweaking of scheduling may help, and I do agree with what you say, but that is not the reason why rights are still unsold. Rivals see their events sold in Australia with matches at crazy times.

To be fair as well a deal was supposedly done with Sports Flick for $5 million, with some money paid, which fell through.

Of course there is more to it than scheduling, but as a sport let's be honest, we have two markets that pay money - UK and Australia - that we stage so many events that do not cater for both markets is crazy. 

The last 4N that we held here had the Aussies play two games (versus Eng and the Final) on a Sunday afternoon, which meant a kick off of midnight(ish) on Sunday night in Oz. 

Where sports do have crazy scheduling, it tends to be major sports that have already created a lucrative market for their product, like the Fifa World Cup. 

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Seen a lot of women's RL over the last couple of weeks and it looks like there is a whole world of pain coming for the other teams when the Jillaroos arrive. They are so far head it could be reminiscent of the 1982 Kangaroos.

That women's State of Origin was the highest quality women's RL game I have seen. England have some good individual players but they are not going to get within 30-40 points of this Australian side. Looking forward to seeing the Kiwis tomorrow and Tonga (who aren't even in the WC).

Edited by Scubby
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That Ladies' Origin game from Canberra was a high intensity and enjoyable game. Really enjoyable curtain-raiser for a big rep weekend.

I think it probably was the most absorbing women's match that I've watched.

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Just now, StandOffHalf said:

That Ladies' Origin game from Canberra was a high intensity and enjoyable game. Really enjoyable curtain-raiser for a big rep weekend.

I think it probably was the most absorbing women's match that I've watched.

The fast dry track helped but the skill level was excellent and the NSW tactic of using the outside backs up the middle was a very profitable move. Both FBs were good, all the wingers were good. Sergis and Kelly probably nailed down the Oz centre spots but you could just pick the forwards names out of a hat and that would be good enough.

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5 hours ago, Dave T said:

Dutton pretty much confirming that the offers aren't good from Oz. Obviously negotiating tactic, but it's quite depressing that we are talking about broadcasting through an app because there isn't decent levels of interest in the biggest RL nation in the world for what should be a superb World Cup. 

For me one of the biggest bits of incompetence over the last few decades with things like this is that we havent tried to run events with broadcasting in mind. Scheduling has been sporadic - playing World Cup openers at times that do not allow for maximising viewers on both sides of the world is basic stuff. IIRC, 

The last World Cup opener saw England play their first game on a Friday morning here, hardly a great slot for getting numbers. World Club Challenges have been played so they are on in Oz at 4am on a Monday morning. 

We are now getting the rewards for things like that. We need to be really strong on scheduling to provide live content that ticks boxes on both sides of the world. 

It looks slightly better this time - all of Australia's games will be early Sat or Sunday morning, but NZ's opener will be early Monday morning. All of Tonga's group games will be midweek mornings. 

So there are still quite a few games that will be early morning midweek. 

 

Do you have a link to where Jon  Sutton is saying the Oz TV offers are bad?

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14 minutes ago, Jim from Oz said:

Do you have a link to where Jon  Sutton is saying the Oz TV offers are bad?

It has been an Aussie broadcast tactic for years, show little or no interest and expect to get it spoon fed for next to no cost. All C9 care about is their prime Friday night, Saturday and Sunday slots. 

My guess is it will end up on Fox and Stan with with a pittance paid by broadcasters. Negotiating 4 months out is a car crash in terms of revenue. 

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