Rugby League World Cup 2021 (Merged Threads)

[RigbyLuger]

26 minutes ago, Maximus Decimus said:

There is actually a longer clip available, although it doesn't include who they've been talking about before either. The poster seems to think it still looks bad, but I don't.

 

I think it's pretty clear that it was part of a conversation around players being committed only to England. Eddie even quotes Gus Gould saying 'which nation do you cry for when you sing the national anthem,' before saying 'that's it in a nutshell.' 

If you're concerned about who cries at a song, you're concerned about the wrong things. But Gus is Gus.

[Big Picture]

1 hour ago, Maximus Decimus said:

Essentially, this is exactly what it boils down to.

Hemmings clearly isn't a fan of using born and bred Australians/Kiwis to represent England because they are technically eligible. 

Regardless of how it is being treated on here, I don't think that is a particularly controversial opinion and certainly not an opinion that is beyond the pale.

Instead of the idea that Hemmings is a dangerous racist, it is far more likely that he is coming from a position of someone who doesn't like people jumping nations or representing England as a second choice.

Well said, I'm in full agreement.

Those who are criticizing Hemmings and alleging that he has some sort of racist view about Dom Young should remember that for 29 years he did play-by-play commentary of a sport which was groundbreaking in its openness to black and mixed-races players and coaches since before The Sports Channel (where Hemmings started his RL commentary before it merged with Sky) came along.  As far as I can tell never in all that time did he say anything remotely racist, and he wouldn't have fit the game nearly as well as he did if he had any such views.

[Maximus Decimus]

24 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I'm still confused by the conversation on Young. Did neither Eddie or Shaun Wane know he was born and grew up in England? 

I think Eddie might not, but I honestly think we need to see the minutes preceding to know exactly what they were talking about.

[Dave T]

9 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

Well said, I'm in full agreement.

Those who are criticizing Hemmings and alleging that he has some sort of racist view about Dom Young should remember that for 29 years he did play-by-play commentary of a sport which was groundbreaking in its openness to black and mixed-races players and coaches since before The Sports Channel (where Hemmings started his RL commentary before it merged with Sky) came along.  As far as I can tell never in all that time did he say anything remotely racist, and he wouldn't have fit the game nearly as well as he did if he had any such views.

Hmm. I recall him suggesting a black man in the crowd at Saints was Samuel L Jackson. It was at the World Club game where Russel Crowe was in town. 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2964737/amp/Samuel-L-Jackson-alongside-wasn-t-Commentator-fire-wrongly-naming-famous-actor-sitting-Russell-Crowe-Rabbitohs-game-Gladiator-star-Djimon-Hounsou.html

Edited October 6, 2022 by Dave T
Named wrong actor from memory in original

[Dave T]

5 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

Well said, I'm in full agreement.

Those who are criticizing Hemmings and alleging that he has some sort of racist view about Dom Young should remember that for 29 years he did play-by-play commentary of a sport which was groundbreaking in its openness to black and mixed-races players and coaches since before The Sports Channel (where Hemmings started his RL commentary before it merged with Sky) came along.  As far as I can tell never in all that time did he say anything remotely racist, and he wouldn't have fit the game nearly as well as he did if he had any such views.

So because he has been involved in RL he can't be racist. 

That is incredibly naive. 

[Big Picture]

22 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I'm still confused by the conversation on Young. Did neither Eddie or Shaun Wane know he was born and grew up in England? 

In the longer clip posted by @Maximus Decimusyou can hear Wane saying that he spoke to Dom Young, surely his accent would have shown that he grew up in England at minimum wouldn't it?

6 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

Wane has been walking a fine line for some time describing how he wants people who are committed to the English team and how he will not contemplate players with tenuous heritage links.  Whether we agree or disagree with this, it is an area where you have to be very careful with your language. 

They will have spoken about Radley and the fact he was born and raised in Australia but with an English father and the fact he could choose between Australia and England to represent and whether this meant he wasn't 100% an English Rugby League player.

With Young eligible to play for Jamaica, Hemmings seems to imply that he is in the same category. 

At best it is horribly horribly clumsy language and at worst a question of whether a young black man born and raised in England is truly English.  The former is bad and the latter horrendous. 

I want to believe that it was nothing more than poorly thought through questions and answers (and misleading editing) . 

But it is another instance where our low profile as a sport is a genuine blessing. 

The thing is, having an English father makes Radley eligible for UK citizenship by descent.  Jamaican law makes the grandchildren of Jamaican citizenship eligible for citizenship there too.

So while one can understand objections to heritage players, in some cases players have a legitimate basis for representing a country other than the country where they were born.

[Big Picture]

3 minutes ago, Dave T said:

So because he has been involved in RL he can't be racist. 

That is incredibly naive. 

It's a lot more than that.  In all those years when he did play-by-play commentary week in and week out, did you ever hear him say anything which might be described as racist?

Edited October 6, 2022 by Big Picture

[Maximus Decimus]

5 minutes ago, RigbyLuger said:

If you're concerned about who cries at a song, you're concerned about the wrong things. But Gus is Gus.

You get his point. International sport should be about representing the country you feel most passionate about. For most this is the country of their birth but not all.

There are many, me included, who think that International sport shouldn't be about playing for your 2nd/3rd choice.

I don't feel as strongly about it in RL as without it we'd struggle to have an International game and there's no doubt the tournament would be worse off.

[Dave T]

1 minute ago, Big Picture said:

It's a lot more than that.  In all those years when he did play-by-play commentary week in and week out, did you ever hear him say anything which might be described as racist?

I never heard Andy Gray and Richard Keys being horrible sexists until they were caught on mic. 

[Big Picture]

Just now, Maximus Decimus said:

You get his point. International sport should be about representing the country you feel most passionate about. For most this is the country of their birth but not all.

There are many, me included, who think that International sport shouldn't be about playing for your 2nd/3rd choice.

I don't feel as strongly about it in RL as without it we'd struggle to have an International game and there's no doubt the tournament would be worse off.

I can tell you from personal experience that the country one feels the most passionate about is not necessarily the country of one's birth.

Though I was born in England, we came to Canada a couple of months before I turned 9 and I grew up here.  I'm Canadian, not English, and if I'd been a top athlete in a sport with Internationals back when I was young I'd never have considered playing for England, only for Canada.

[StandOffHalf]

It sounds to me as though Eddie is equating the backgrounds and loyalties of Radley and Young. He musn't have been aware that Young is English-born.

Very awkward and uncomfortable viewing.

[Maximus Decimus]

3 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I never heard Andy Gray and Richard Keys being horrible sexists until they were caught on mic. 

In my adult life, I've never met someone openly say that a black British person isn't really British. I've seen many many men speak like Keys and Grey.

[Maximus Decimus]

3 minutes ago, StandOffHalf said:

It sounds to me as though Eddie is equating the backgrounds and loyalties of Radley and Young. He musn't have been aware that Young is English-born.

Very awkward and uncomfortable viewing.

Maybe, and maybe he misspoke but again without the full context prior to it it's very hard to judge.

It's clear from after it, that commitment to England is part of the conversation. For all we know McIlorum could've been spoken about.

Edited October 6, 2022 by Maximus Decimus
Additional info

[Big Picture]

2 minutes ago, StandOffHalf said:

It sounds to me as though Eddie is equating the backgrounds and loyalties of Radley and Young. He musn't have been aware that Young is English-born.

Very awkward and uncomfortable viewing.

English-born or not, he'd have to have grown up in England to have become a good enough player to make it in the NRL as England is the only place in the northern hemisphere with native players good enough for that.

Could Eddie have assumed that any players with Jamaican heritage who grew up in England who wouldn't automatically choose England had been born in Jamaica?

[Maximus Decimus]

6 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

I can tell you from personal experience that the country one feels the most passionate about is not necessarily the country of one's birth.

Though I was born in England, we came to Canada a couple of months before I turned 9 and I grew up here.  I'm Canadian, not English, and if I'd been a top athlete in a sport with Internationals back when I was young I'd never have considered playing for England, only for Canada.

I've had the near exact opposite issue. I have a set of cousins who emigrated to Canada when they were young (4-11).

They came back over as adults, and were mortally offended when I introduced them as my Canadian cousins

[StandOffHalf]

5 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

Could Eddie have assumed that any players with Jamaican heritage who grew up in England who wouldn't automatically choose England had been born in Jamaica?

I think that is the kindest interpretation that one could form of Eddie's line of questioning, yes.

[jim_57]

It may be coincidence but I find it a bit annoying that all games this first weekend are the “expected” 1V2 & 3V4. Upsets can happen I know but we’ll have a fair idea the final positions of the groups pretty early. Ireland and Lebanon are probably the closest 2 & 3 on paper not to say Cook Islands couldn’t cause an upset against PNG.

Minor whinge, I know.

[gingerjon]

7 hours ago, Big Picture said:

It's a lot more than that.  In all those years when he did play-by-play commentary week in and week out, did you ever hear him say anything which might be described as racist?

He decided on air that a player with a foreign name was too hard to pronounce so he was going to shorten it and say it how he wanted to.

[Jim from Oz]

OK so with a week to go to the opener, any update on ticket sales anyone? Thanks!

[GeordieSaint]

1 hour ago, Jim from Oz said:

OK so with a week to go to the opener, any update on ticket sales anyone? Thanks!

Cat B tickets unavailable now. A likely good sign. Doesn’t appear too many blocks are left available in the Cat D nor Cat E sections. 

[WN83]

19 minutes ago, GeordieSaint said:

Cat B tickets unavailable now. A likely good sign. Doesn’t appear too many blocks are left available in the Cat D nor Cat E sections. 

Sounds promising.

You'd like to hear them shout it from the rooftops if sales have gone well over this past week or so. There's nothing more than sales going well and a big crowd being on, to make people get themselves in gear and want to be part of it. 

[GeordieSaint]

5 minutes ago, WN83 said:

Sounds promising.

You'd like to hear them shout it from the rooftops if sales have gone well over this past week or so. There's nothing more than sales going well and a big crowd being on, to make people get themselves in gear and want to be part of it. 

47 blocks out of a 163 available. Majority seem to be in the Cat C sections. So who knows…!

[Dave T]

4 minutes ago, GeordieSaint said:

47 blocks out of a 163 available. Majority seem to be in the Cat C sections. So who knows…!

A lot of availability appears to be in the top tier, which is put of the way from the cameras. I'm sure I saw something say recently that the whole TV arc had been sold out, which I thinks important. St James Pk has looked decent with a healthy Magic crowd in, and it'll look far better this time as everyone will be in at once. 

40k with the whole lower bowl full will be decent, but naturally hope it'll be 10k higher than that. 

There is still a worry that every block of £110 tickets has availability. 

[Damien]

9 minutes ago, Dave T said:

A lot of availability appears to be in the top tier, which is put of the way from the cameras. I'm sure I saw something say recently that the whole TV arc had been sold out, which I thinks important. St James Pk has looked decent with a healthy Magic crowd in, and it'll look far better this time as everyone will be in at once. 

40k with the whole lower bowl full will be decent, but naturally hope it'll be 10k higher than that. 

There is still a worry that every block of £110 tickets has availability. 

I'd say at Magic we have probably never had more than about 25k in seats at the same time and it's looked pretty good. Anything above 40k will look amazing I think.

[Will Holt]

40 minutes ago, GeordieSaint said:

47 blocks out of a 163 available. Majority seem to be in the Cat C sections. So who knows…!

Not sure how accurate the maps / available blocks are because there are blocks showing available (e.g. J & K Cat A) in the East Stand that is apparently sold out?