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Rugby League World Cup 2021 (Merged Threads)


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33 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Yup. Dutton, like Bolton was part of the RFL that people call incompetent for many years prior to them doing a good job at the World Cup. 

It's almost like it's not the people, but the level of investment. 

But if we are going to just judge based on individual events, the 2016 4N was utterly uninspiring, with an opening crowd of 5.5k, a double header crowd of 21k, and an Olympic Stadium crowd that was almost 10k down for a game against the Aussies. Dutton was the leader of that tournament. 

Glad you mentioned 2016 because it was absolutely sht. Dutton was in charge of that and he underperformed badly. The big difference this time is that he has a big budget, a large supporting team and access to people via the government pathway. In 2016 he probably had Nige, a work experience kid and a couple of thousand in pound coins from the back of the Red Hall waiting room sofas.

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Isn't it ironic the NRL are locked down in QLD Australia (at this stage to Sunday afternoon) playing to empty crowds while trying to do a backroom deal with a State Government to host the GF for the most $$$ - still not knowing who will be open for business then

It would be pretty sweet if the RLWC comes out & says its still on during this week.

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1 hour ago, Damien said:

A good sign that the World Cup may be going ahead:

Fourteen Kaiviti Silktails players have been named in the Vodafone Fiji Bati extended squad to prepare for the World Cup in England scheduled for later this year.

The Silktails players are Jili Temesia,Vuate Karawalevu,Tomasi Vunicagi,Penioni Tagituimua,Pio Seci,Ralulu Nasoki,Apakuki Tavodi,Apimeleki Lutu,Waisale Vesikula,Josh Taboiliku,Malakai Kovekalou and Josh Waqavesui.

Bati Head Coach, Joe Rabele has also reached out to players to confirm their availability to represent Fiji in the Rugby League World Cup.

https://www.fbcnews.com.fj/sports/rugby/14-silktails-in-bati-rlwc-extended-squad/

Interesting that 14 Silktails have been named, a team massively affected by the COVID travel restrictions this year and yet pretty much the entire squad has agreed to tour. This seems to be yet another indication that players overwhelmingly want to play in the WC, in the Silktails case it will considerably boost their wages for the year and put them in the shop window for SL clubs as well. They are also a NSWRL Cup team and I've not seen anything by that organisation supporting the NRL. 

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6 minutes ago, Whippet13 said:

Interesting that 14 Silktails have been named, a team massively affected by the COVID travel restrictions this year and yet pretty much the entire squad has agreed to tour. This seems to be yet another indication that players overwhelmingly want to play in the WC, in the Silktails case it will considerably boost their wages for the year and put them in the shop window for SL clubs as well. They are also a NSWRL Cup team and I've not seen anything by that organisation supporting the NRL. 

It would be a great opportunity for them as you say.

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1 hour ago, Davo5 said:

Soldiers on the streets of Sydney enforcing the lockdown,maybe the NRL players will be happy to escape that covid ridden he’ll hole 😂

Oh this is part of the problem, isn't it?

It is so far removed from a Covid ridden hellhole but the poor bug gers believe it is.

I don't know why there has been so little uptake, of the vaccine (fear and suspicion I suppose) but it seems that there is some willful resistance to it.

Their alternative strategy seems to be to stop the virus from propagating widely by using stringent (& punitive) lockdowns.

Good luck with that.

Are they really suggesting that every time someone is identified as suffering the disease they are going to lockdown the locality, while keeping people from visiting (or leaving and returning to) the country indefinitely?

This is a complete absurdity.

They will be cycling in and out of lockdown, (with borders closed) for decades. 

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I'm just watching NRL360. The headlines say "Game Saver - V'Landys scrambles to keep NRL Season Alive" - "Game Saved - NRL Caught Off guard by QLD"

Paul Kent: "It's disgraceful what the Queensland government did....The NRL has come to Queensland' rescue with 25M revenue.... they shut down all professional sport but kept the horse racing which is a cash cow... yet the NRL got shut down last minute, and it took a long, drawn out process of 12 hours to get the games on again (in Queensland, rejigged 24hrs late). Why? they were already in their bubbles?"

Yvonne Sampson: "What's to stop them (QLD) doing this again in Grand Final week?"

 

Do they not see the irony? No one mentioned the world cup once. The word "Hypocrisy" was even mentioned referring to the state government. There was zero opposing view from the Fox a panel (other than Buzz Rothfield saying that they shouldn't now 100% pull the GF from Brisbane, but instead insist on a bidding war with Melbourne).

F^&*ing jokers!

 

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I so hope the World Cup goes ahead. Anxiously waiting for a positive decision 🙏.

We hope to record a follow up show 🎙️on Thursday, finger crossed we have a decision by then, also want to bring in fan views, if you have something you want us to discuss please leave a comment on YouTube👍

Would be great to have some fan insights and thoughts.

 

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On 01/08/2021 at 11:47, Keith989 said:

Everyone is free to support who they wish of course, do what makes you happy, but I'll never get how somebody can become a die hard fan of a club in another nation. Us Irish fawning over the premier league has left our domestic league in an absolute shambles and thus has a huge knock on effect on the whole of Irish football. The "granny" rule has masked where the Irish football team really is for years.

Domestic clubs in union and League will never have that appeal to people from outside their parish like in football, no matter what teams are in it. This is why the international game is so important, I couldn't give a damn who wins the super league or NRL but I'll get up early and watch Tonga play New Zealand or Australia or PNG etc etc.

Firstly you cannot compare a global sport to a parochial one. 

In the north (and south) of Ireland we are quite unique when it comes to football in that most of our players (of any quality) go to England/Scotland, thus the professional game there is one we are instantly connected to. And as I said these teams are international in scope so with football being a global sport it has global interest. A young Irish footballer (and many around the globe) dreams of playing for a Liverpool, or a Manchester United, or a Celtic, club’s players (and fans) are drawn to. Liverpool FC with its world famous anthem (almost certainly THE most famous in all of sport) it carries a universal message that anyone around the world can relate to. The team also play games around the world, as do Man United and other teams. 

Conversely, domestic leagues in Union and League are parochial in that teams generate next to no interest outside their own geographic location. This has shackled them immensely. As I said before, in Liverpool St Helens is seen as being for St Helens, which leaves them detached from a city just 15 miles down the road. The result of this lack of wider appeal means they play before crowds akin to a 3rd/4th tier English football club. 

Surely the aim is for teams not to be so parochial? To broaden their appeal, to be more inclusive, for people from outside to feel a connection. To use a RL follower from Wales as an example (since the Welsh has some RL identity), your argument is basically “I don’t know how a Welsh person can be a passionate supporter of St Helens (insert any other English RL name here), they should be supporting Pontypridd Gladiators, or Llanelli Wild Stallions...infront of two dozen (family members of players) and the chap who walks his dog past the field.” 

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On 01/08/2021 at 14:22, Mr Frisky said:

Not sure how you can be passionate about a team you have no connection to or even in the same country as you are from but each to their own... as long as you support your local team as well suppose no harm done.

Great to see as an Irish person you sing our National Anthem to our Queen with pride at Liverpool matches- well done lad.

Hope to see you at Newcastle singing it for Englands first WC game. 👍

 

Is that what you say to the Welsh fella who drives up the motorway to watch his beloved RL side? 👍 

You’ve endorsed my point though, mo chara, in that the parochial aspect of RL has shackled it for over a century. Wigan for Wigan, St Helens for St Helens. As Tony Collins said on his podcast you can go just a few miles outside these locations and RL doesn’t exist. 

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28 minutes ago, DC77 said:

 

Is that what you say to the Welsh fella who drives up the motorway to watch his beloved RL side? 👍 

You’ve endorsed my point though, mo chara, in that the parochial aspect of RL has shackled it for over a century. Wigan for Wigan, St Helens for St Helens. As Tony Collins said on his podcast you can go just a few miles outside these locations and RL doesn’t exist. 

I've found this to be true in the past. I remember when I was a teenager and through friends ended up hanging out with loads of other kids from up the road in Beverley for a few years. I was the only kid that watched rugby league, the only kid that knew anything about rugby league in fact, none of them knew the first thing about it, didn't even know that two of the top teams were based in Hull.

They were all football fans, and not even fans of Hull City but mainly just Premier League teams they'd never even been to watch. I remember a kid that supported Everton but I can't for the life of me remember why. Can't remember what other random teams people supported. 

Point is, this was a group of teenagers from just 8 miles away from Hull that had absolutely no awareness of the sport which highlights how small the reach of RL is unfortunately. 

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On 01/08/2021 at 15:33, Big Picture said:

Of course it's not just the names, it's the places behind the names and what those places mean in the world.  The issue in Liverpool or Manchester is much the same as in London: will the public there consider the likes of Warrington, Wigan and St Helens opponents worth their time, attention and money?

It seems clear that they'd have less interest in seeing the soccer teams there play the likes of Bolton, Blackburn and Preston than a team from another big city, and there's no reason to think that Warrington, Wigan and St Helens would have any greater appeal for them.  That's what would have to be solved to have successful pro teams in such cities and I suggest that the path to that goes through places like Toronto and New York.

When I say names I'm including the location in that. It obviously has an effect, but a much bigger effect outside the UK (which you are alluding to). Renaming Salford to Manchester Red Devils ain’t gonna see an upward surge in their fanbase here. Outside the UK that name may have more resonance, so we are coming at this from two different perspectives. The crux of the issue in the UK is RL as a sport is seen as parochial, and yes the names contribute to that, but ultimately a London Broncos carries no more weight than a Batley Broncos would. Toronto came into Super League, that’s a major city. Didn’t do a thing for RL outside RL circles. Ditto Paris. 

RL has almost been banjaxed from the start when it was formed in those coal-mining towns along the M62. It’s never lost that parochial tag. How it could is the hardest question to answer.

 

 

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50 minutes ago, DC77 said:

Firstly you cannot compare a global sport to a parochial one. 

In the north (and south) of Ireland we are quite unique when it comes to football in that most of our players (of any quality) go to England/Scotland, thus the professional game there is one we are instantly connected to. And as I said these teams are international in scope so with football being a global sport it has global interest. A young Irish footballer (and many around the globe) dreams of playing for a Liverpool, or a Manchester United, or a Celtic, club’s players (and fans) are drawn to. Liverpool FC with its world famous anthem (almost certainly THE most famous in all of sport) it carries a universal message that anyone around the world can relate to. The team also play games around the world, as do Man United and other teams. 

Conversely, domestic leagues in Union and League are parochial in that teams generate next to no interest outside their own geographic location. This has shackled them immensely. As I said before, in Liverpool St Helens is seen as being for St Helens, which leaves them detached from a city just 15 miles down the road. The result of this lack of wider appeal means they play before crowds akin to a 3rd/4th tier English football club. 

Surely the aim is for teams not to be so parochial? To broaden their appeal, to be more inclusive, for people from outside to feel a connection. To use a RL follower from Wales as an example (since the Welsh has some RL identity), your argument is basically “I don’t know how a Welsh person can be a passionate supporter of St Helens (insert any other English RL name here), they should be supporting Pontypridd Gladiators, or Llanelli Wild Stallions...infront of two dozen (family members of players) and the chap who walks his dog past the field.” 

One problem is that you can't really expect Liverpudlians to get interested in a team representing what they probably think of as a suburb of their city.  Realistically the club's reach has a very limited range.

In Wales another likelky obstacle is resentment about the way the game raided Wales for players back in the day.  That's probably what was behind the hostility which one poster here described encountering in Wales from locals when they discovered that he likes RL.

5 minutes ago, DC77 said:

When I say names I'm including the location in that. It obviously has an effect, but a much bigger effect outside the UK (which you are alluding to). Renaming Salford to Manchester Red Devils ain’t gonna see an upward surge in their fanbase here. Outside the UK that name may have more resonance, so we are coming at this from two different perspectives. The crux of the issue in the UK is RL as a sport is seen as parochial, and yes the names contribute to that, but ultimately a London Broncos carries no more weight than a Batley Broncos would. Toronto came into Super League, that’s a major city. Didn’t do a thing for RL outside RL circles. Ditto Paris. 

RL has almost been banjaxed from the start when it was formed in those coal-mining towns along the M62. It’s never lost that parochial tag. How it could is the hardest question to answer.

Of course renaming Salford to Manchester Red Devils wouldn't see an upward surge in their fanbase.  It wouldn't be an authentic Manchester club, so that wouldn't fool anyone.  Realistically the only way Manchester, London, Toronto, and the like would carry the necessary weight is if they were all in a separate league by themselves, and much work would be needed then for them all to create the necessary buzz about themselves to attract and retain the crowds and TV viewers they would need.

RL probably can't lose that parochial tag without a complete rebrand carried out by a whole new organization entirely separate from the current structure.  The parochial small town clubs in the game will never overcome it.

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22 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

One problem is that you can't really expect Liverpudlians to get interested in a team representing what they probably think of as a suburb of their city. 

Someone better tell the blue noses that quick. 

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37 minutes ago, DC77 said:

When I say names I'm including the location in that. It obviously has an effect, but a much bigger effect outside the UK (which you are alluding to). Renaming Salford to Manchester Red Devils ain’t gonna see an upward surge in their fanbase here. Outside the UK that name may have more resonance, so we are coming at this from two different perspectives. The crux of the issue in the UK is RL as a sport is seen as parochial, and yes the names contribute to that, but ultimately a London Broncos carries no more weight than a Batley Broncos would. Toronto came into Super League, that’s a major city. Didn’t do a thing for RL outside RL circles. Ditto Paris. 

RL has almost been banjaxed from the start when it was formed in those coal-mining towns along the M62. It’s never lost that parochial tag. How it could is the hardest question to answer.

 

 

Internationals and FTA... 

I think a Manchester team playing out of the MRA with a funded academy could be a huge boost to the sport and is a relatively easy win. 

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28 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

One problem is that you can't really expect Liverpudlians to get interested in a team representing what they probably think of as a suburb of their city.  Realistically the club's reach has a very limited range.

 

This simply is not true no matter how many times you say it. 

People support teams in all sports for all sorts of reasons. 

I'm from Warrington in Cheshire, but I support Man City and Lancashire Cricket, despite caring little for the city and county. 

My wife is from Glasgow and supports Warrington. My mate is from Nottingham and supports Arsenal. I know lads from Wales who support Warrington, Widnes, St Helens and Salford. I know Southerners who support Wigan. I have convinced loads of my Scottish mates to follow Wire. 

People support teams for all sorts of reasons - parents, favourite players, friends, kits, one-off games, colours etc. 

 

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7 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

Internationals and FTA... 

I think a Manchester team playing out of the MRA with a funded academy could be a huge boost to the sport and is a relatively easy win. 

The unfortunate truth being that getting Mancunians to pay to watch them in any numbers would not be an easy win. It is ultimately why the pins in maps approach has not worked. People have to care about the sport enough to want to go and support it, those people don't exist in Manchester or if they do they will already follow one of the historically successful clubs in SL.

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1 hour ago, DC77 said:

 

Is that what you say to the Welsh fella who drives up the motorway to watch his beloved RL side? 👍 

You’ve endorsed my point though, mo chara, in that the parochial aspect of RL has shackled it for over a century. Wigan for Wigan, St Helens for St Helens. As Tony Collins said on his podcast you can go just a few miles outside these locations and RL doesn’t exist. 

For a Welsh fella who drives to see his beloved RL side- are you talking about West Wales or North Wales RL teams??

With regards to my point, if you read it, i was talking about Football.....

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2 minutes ago, Scubby said:

There are virtual no World Cup stories in the Aussie media outlets right now. It is an old defunct story to them. Journalism at its finest!

They are probably talking about Origin 2022 and if the players get a good pre season how fresh they will be for it..🤣

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  • John Drake changed the title to Rugby League World Cup 2021 (Merged Threads)
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