Rugby League World Cup 2021 (Merged Threads)

[londonrlfan]

5 minutes ago, Hela Wigmen said:

I do. To an extent. It’s certainly easy to jump onto the coat tails of and use it as a deflection for other thoughts or motives though. 

The numbers for Covid here recently haven’t been great and I can see why some may look at it unfavourably and be wary of such travel. 

Yet it's far worse in Japan atm and no one has any issues going to the Olympics. 

[Dunbar]

Have to say I think any comments that Australia are not coming because of the fear of losing are massively wide of the mark.  It is the opposite... they are not coming because the they don't see the value in coming and I am afraid that is win or lose.

[londonrlfan]

1 minute ago, Mattrhino said:

I don't buy this argument. Everyone loves winning. I don't think suddenly losing will bring the fans back.

The All Blacks have won 80% of their matches in their 100+ year history.

 

Yep if the Aussies lose all the time, then they won't bother to watch it as they don't win! Unfortunately RL can't win. 

But we allowed this to happen by swallowing the hype of the NRL and Origin. Allowing them to push the narrative that Origin is the "pinnacle" over international competition, even though many of the best players can't feature in it.

[DI Keith Fowler]

1 minute ago, Dunbar said:

Have to say I think any comments that Australia are not coming because of the fear of losing are massively wide of the mark.  It is the opposite... they are not coming because the they don't see the value in coming and I am afraid that is win or lose.

I don't even think it's that, it's that it's not a big payday for them. Why support an international RL calendar that doesn't provide them a big return when they can effectively kill it off, and do their own competitions under the NRL banner and glean all the profit. 

[thebrewxi]

15 minutes ago, londonrlfan said:

How much would it cost to move it a year? If they bottle it and postpone it, the NRL should foot the bill. 

But, assuming we keep the same sort of dates for 2022 as 2021, the latter stages of the RL WC will be lost in the build up to, and start of, the Football World Cup. I genuinely can't believe people in Australia are suggesting it is moved by 1 year. No other sport tries to go toe to toe with a Football World Cup. I don't think Australians have a grasp on world sport, and League outside of their own country. 

 

Perhaps if it was moved back to July August time it might work. Let's see how many Australians suggest that as a compromise.

[EastLondonMike]

For me the apathy towards International competition from Australia is all about genuine competition. England and NZ may be able to spring a surprise now and again, but deep down we all know that going in to these games an Australian win is highly likely. And until that changes, nothing else will.

It's the same for England fans in their attitude towards France and the other euro nations that play RL. Even though France could spring a surprise, we all know it's extremely unlikely. I think i mentioned it earlier on this thread, that the Aussies attitude towards us is not much different than the attitude of many towards France.

When we can go into games without that feeling of knowing who is likely to win, then we'll see the appetite for International games grow. 

We also need to actually play some games of course.

[Dunbar]

Just now, DI Keith Fowler said:

I don't even think it's that, it's that it's not a big payday for them. Why support an international RL calendar that doesn't provide them a big return when they can effectively kill it off, and do their own competitions under the NRL banner and glean all the profit. 

That is part of the value that I am referring to.

[Hela Wigmen]

1 minute ago, londonrlfan said:

Yet it's far worse in Japan atm and no one has any issues going to the Olympics. 

I find comparisons a bit unnecessary. The package on offer by Japan for travelling athletes is likely to be very different to the package offered to Rugby League teams for a start, so it’s a bit like comparing apples and oranges. 

But as I say, I can understand why some players may not, at this time, want to travel over here. I do also think that Covid is an easy excuse for the powers that be down under to prepare a coup d’état, which it appears is their ulterior motive here. 

[londonrlfan]

18 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

Have to say I think any comments that Australia are not coming because of the fear of losing are massively wide of the mark.  It is the opposite... they are not coming because the they don't see the value in coming and I am afraid that is win or lose.

I do believe that is part of the reason. The Aussies see themselves as the Harlem Globetrotters of International RL, it's just a precision for them to win. When it was a foregone conclusion to win, they had no problems with turning up. Now they have genuine competition, they don't bother to turn up. They can bleat on about competitiveness all they like, but Queensland won ten in a row and nothing was said. 

Edited July 29, 2021 by londonrlfan

[DI Keith Fowler]

25 minutes ago, Derwent said:

But the NRL clubs are only obliged to release players for officially sanctioned matches. That’s the difficulty here. Even if players are prepared to play for an unsanctioned team are they prepared to go to war with their employer over it ?

You'd have to imagine the IRL have spent the last week going over their laws to figure out if they can unilaterally sanction these teams. I'd have thought without this being possible the game's up. 

[thebrewxi]

6 minutes ago, DI Keith Fowler said:

I don't even think it's that, it's that it's not a big payday for them. Why support an international RL calendar that doesn't provide them a big return when they can effectively kill it off, and do their own competitions under the NRL banner and glean all the profit. 

Yep, that is what's coming. If the NRL eventually do see the benefit of internationals in say 10 years time, they will do it under their own NRL World Cup banner. The fact it might kill the professional game off in Europe whilst getting there I don't think has even registered. 

Remember when the big football clubs tried a coup for the European Super League earlier this year? Is that coup attempt any worse than this? The only big difference is I haven't heard any one Australian fan group coming out and condemning this. I'm assuming they are all complicit with Fox and their NRL clubs I guess. History doesn't seem to be part of the psyche

Edited July 29, 2021 by thebrewxi

[Hela Wigmen]

1 minute ago, EastLondonMike said:

For me the apathy towards International competition from Australia is all about genuine competition. England and NZ may be able to spring a surprise now and again, but deep down we all know that going in to these games an Australian win is highly likely. And until that changes, nothing else will.

It's the same for England fans in their attitude towards France and the other euro nations that play RL. Even though France could spring a surprise, we all know it's extremely unlikely. I think i mentioned it earlier on this thread, that the Aussies attitude towards us is not much different than the attitude of many towards France.

When we can go into games without that feeling of knowing who is likely to win, then we'll see the appetite for International games grow. 

We also need to actually play some games of course.

Ultimately, this. 

I was debating going to Newcastle for the opening game of England v Samoa because I felt there was a genuine threat to England on that day and felt I’d see a close game. Sheffield happens to be one of my favourite cities for a day out but I had no interest in going to England v Greece as I don’t really fancy seeing a 70-0 game. 

[DI Keith Fowler]

I tell you what if they do manage to pull together an invitational XIII for Aus & NZ the fella that runs Oxen out of a shipping container in Doncaster will be rubbing his grubby hands together with glee. 

[Clogiron]

3 minutes ago, Derwent said:

But the NRL clubs are only obliged to release players for officially sanctioned matches. That’s the difficulty here. Even if players are prepared to play for an unsanctioned team are they prepared to go to war with their employer over it ?

The NRL are in a tricky situation with the indigenous players especially Addo-Carr, Walker and Mitchell, who seem to be the most strident in their views, if they deny them and the other Pacific player's the opportunity to choose wether to play all the clubs and the governing bodies efforts to encompass inclusiveness and be seen to be doing so will go right out the window, I don't know if they get funding from regional or national government for that work but that would be a difficult sell too and a valuable source of player recruitment might be lost to them especially if Rah Rah was to step in and spread the disquiet. Fortunately the Aussie ru seem as incompetent as our leaders nor may they have the cash or providence to do so.

 

 

[iffleyox]

5 minutes ago, Clogiron said:

Fortunately the Aussie ru seem as incompetent as our leaders nor may they have the cash or providence to do so.

 

 

Although the new IRB funded PI sides might be well placed... I thought they were going to be a flash in the pan but if they can't capitalise on this then they're idiots.

[Mathius Hellwege]

NRL 2021: Josh Addo-Carr, Andrew Fifita, Indigenous team at Rugby League World Cup, Australia and New Zealand withdrawal (foxsports.com.au)

[The Hallucinating Goose]

7 minutes ago, Hela Wigmen said:

Ultimately, this. 

I was debating going to Newcastle for the opening game of England v Samoa because I felt there was a genuine threat to England on that day and felt I’d see a close game. Sheffield happens to be one of my favourite cities for a day out but I had no interest in going to England v Greece as I don’t really fancy seeing a 70-0 game. 

I've been really debating going to Newcastle as well, essentially for the same reason as you. I think that game could be a real event with possibly 50,000 in creating an amazing atmosphere and we could see an absolute classic which I want to be part of but of course on the same day there was Aus v Fiji in Hull which would have been cheaper and so much easier to go to but I didn't really want to go see yet another battering inflicted by the Aussies, I've seen enough of them over the years. 

I do plan on going to Sheffield though because even though I know that game is going to be ridiculously easy for England, I have never actually been to Brammall Lane and I would like to see a different team in Greece cos I get fed up of watching the same teams over and over but that's just me, I can see why you and others wouldn't want to go watch that. 

[EastLondonMike]

9 minutes ago, DI Keith Fowler said:

I tell you what if they do manage to pull together an invitational XIII for Aus & NZ the fella that runs Oxen out of a shipping container in Doncaster will be rubbing his grubby hands together with glee. 

This is actually so true.

[Man of Kent]

I'm beginning to feel either have Indigenous Australia & NZ Maori teams or perhaps don't bother at all. 

I really do think the public would get behind them in a big way - you'd even have the English cheering Australians. That's not something that happens very often.

 

[unapologetic pedant]

2 hours ago, DoubleD said:

But they do get challenged..........NZ and England nearly always give them a good game. And Tonga beat them recently. I just don't get this behaviour, it's so 'rugby league'. The All Blacks are serial winners but that doesn't people turning out in their droves to watch them and appreciate good rugby. 

The Kiwis beat the Kangaroos in 2018, in a game where the score-line flattered the Aussies. Generally, games between the two teams are no less competitive than those between the All Blacks and Wallabies.

All 4 GB-Australia series from 1988-1994 leading into the SL upheaval were 2-1 to the Kangaroos.

The Aussies were well-deserved 3-0 winners of the 1986 series, but the games were well-contested great spectacles.

More recently the 2001 series was 2-1 to the Kangaroos.

Australia won the 2003 series 3-0, but the results were 18-22, 20-23, 12-18. These would even fit Sports Prophet`s definition of competitive.

The two Australia-England games at the last WC weren`t the most exciting games to watch, but they were certainly tight contests.

If we went through it exhaustively, plenty of other facts and observations could be collated from the past three and a half decades that don`t fit the narrative of unchallenged Australian domination since the early 80s.

Edited July 29, 2021 by unapologetic pedant

[Derwent]

35 minutes ago, DI Keith Fowler said:

You'd have to imagine the IRL have spent the last week going over their laws to figure out if they can unilaterally sanction these teams. I'd have thought without this being possible the game's up. 

The IRL could sanction the games on their side but legally it would ultimately come down to what it says in players’ contracts.

If it states players must be released for any game sanctioned by the IRL then its game on.

But, for example, if it says they must be released for any game sanctioned by the IRL between 2 IRL member nations then that’s a different matter.

[Jim from Oz]

1 hour ago, Damien said:

It seems like there has been some big meeting with press and NRL CEOs. It sounds like the ARLC and NZRL aren't going to change their minds and there is now a huge effort to ensure players are onside for other nations:

Jon Dutton says there is a '50/50' chance of the Rugby League World Cup taking place following Australia and New Zealand's withdrawal.

Crucial talks are set to take place in the coming days, including an anonymous player survey to determine the appetite of players across the world following the withdrawal of the two powerhouse nations.

Dutton, who confirmed the decision of the ARLC and NZRL was 'irreversible', confirmed a final decision on the tournament's status will be made no later than next week.

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/rugby-league-world-cup-dutton-21172130

I still can’t believe the ARLC and NZRL have done this

[Jim from Oz]

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/jul/29/rugby-league-world-cup-50-50-to-take-place-with-decision-expected-in-days

[unapologetic pedant]

2 hours ago, The Rocket said:

I know I was one of them. I went to the GB tours in the 80`s for the event, I also went to the one in the early 2000`s, one of the most depressing nights of my life, I left at half time and I knew that competitive International League at that point  was dead, I don`t care what any one says I`ll bet my bottom dollar that is how the majority of League fans felt as well.

I assume that was the one-off 2002 Test in Sydney which finished Australia 64 GB 10.

The next time the two teams met in Sydney in 2006 the result was Australia 12 GB 23.

Would an All Blacks fan leave Eden Park at half-time if the home team were demolishing comparable opposition? i.e. where the visiting team had a reasonably competitive record historically, and were good enough to beat the All Blacks the next time the two teams met at Eden Park.

[thebrewxi]

13 minutes ago, Jim from Oz said:

I still can’t believe the ARLC and NZRL have done this

you mean, you can't believe the NRL clubs have done this.