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Rugby League World Cup 2021 (Merged Threads)


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10 minutes ago, 17 stone giant said:

That's a decision that the world cup organisers are currently thinking through. But if Australia and NZ have player welfare concerns (and I appreciate that you'll probably say they shouldn't have) regarding a WC in 2021, the fact that the world cup cannot be moved to next year, is just tough. You can't expect them to ignore those concerns just so that the world cup can go ahead. What do you expect them to say to their players etc. - we don't think it's safe, but we're sending you because financially it's not possible to move the world cup back a year.

While the Covid situation is still an ongoing concern, nothing can be guaranteed.

But providing that there are no Covid issues, and if Australia and New Zealand sign up to come here for a World Cup in 2022, I don't understand on what basis anyone would question their intentions?

You're talking as though these aren't two teams that between them have been over to the UK virtually ever year for the past 30 years. It's just utterly bizarre to me the way that they're being spoken about.

They havent been over that much of late..

There will be Australians that will never get to tour now.. and Covid cannot be blamed

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Just now, yipyee said:

They havent been over that much of late..

There will be Australians that will never get to tour now.. and Covid cannot be blamed

The Aussies wanted to come here in 2019 instead of GB going there. They then signed up for an Ashes series in England in 2020, which had to be cancelled due to Covid. They had already signed up for a WC in England in 2021, that they are saying they feel unable to attend because of Covid. It's hardly indicative of them being unwilling to come here, is it?

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7 minutes ago, 17 stone giant said:

That's a decision that the world cup organisers are currently thinking through. But if Australia and NZ have player welfare concerns (and I appreciate that you'll probably say they shouldn't have) regarding a WC in 2021, the fact that the world cup cannot be moved to next year, is just tough. You can't expect them to ignore those concerns just so that the world cup can go ahead. What do you expect them to say to their players etc. - we don't think it's safe, but we're sending you because financially it's not possible to move the world cup back a year.

While the Covid situation is still an ongoing concern, nothing can be guaranteed.

But providing that there are no Covid issues, and if Australia and New Zealand sign up to come here for a World Cup in 2022, I don't understand on what basis anyone would question their intentions?

You're talking as though these aren't two teams that between them have been over to the UK virtually ever year for the past 30 years. It's just utterly bizarre to me the way that they're being spoken about.

That's an awfully long winded answer just to agree there is no guarantee that they will come in 2022 and we won't be in the same boat. 

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7 minutes ago, 17 stone giant said:

The Aussies wanted to come here in 2019 instead of GB going there. They then signed up for an Ashes series in England in 2020, which had to be cancelled due to Covid. They had already signed up for a WC in England in 2021, that they are saying they feel unable to attend because of Covid. It's hardly indicative of them being unwilling to come here, is it?

Yes odd isnt it that they dont want to come?

Still who knows when they will next play in the NH.

Its the players who miss out.. unless they go to union

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18 minutes ago, 17 stone giant said:

Except that's not what I said at all. Nowhere did I say that because Cameron Smith wouldn't have come, that it means no player would want to come. That's a ridiculous thought process and one that I didn't have. You've just completely made it up.

I said that because Cameron Smith said he wouldn't have come, it makes me think that it's very possible that there are some current players who will feel the same. I didn't say ALL of them, I said SOME. And judging by what another poster said (mentioning a Samoan player not wanting to come), it would appear that I was correct with my suspicions.

The key word is SOME. Some is not many and certainly not most. Everything we read suggests that around 75% of eligible players want to take part in the 2021 world cup in 2021. Their wishes have been ignored, their human rights are being abused and they are suffering a restraint of trade because a bullying administration doesn't want there to be any disruption to its 2022 pre season. The collateral damage to the womens and wheelchair games is disproportionately high and the NRL's position is indefensible. Full stop. End of argument.

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Fingers crossed. Whilst I'm not keen on teams based on race if it means the World Cup goes ahead I'm all for it:

An Australian Indigenous and New Zealand Maori team will be included in this year’s World Cup as replacements for Australia and New Zealand after a significant player push.

It comes as the 16 NRL clubs prepare a statement detailing their angst at the World Cup going ahead. The letter is expected to arrive as early as Friday. Club chief executives will publicly back the ARLC’s decision to withdraw the Kangaroos.

Clubs won’t be able to stop their players from representing other nations at the World Cup but hope it can be delayed by 12 months.

While Australia and New Zealand won’t feature there has been a growing push for an Indigenous and Maori team to be included.

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport/nrl/sport-confidential-indigenous-and-maori-teams-for-world-cup-bulldogs-sneaky-bid-to-fastrack-paul-vaughan-ban/news-story/8bfb616639e82df12749d00e661326f6

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13 minutes ago, Damien said:

An Australian Indigenous and New Zealand Maori team will be included in this year’s World Cup

How strong would these teams be? I'm looking at the side of the draw that Australia and NZ were in, and would it be that impossible for one of these teams to reach the final?

Fiji, Scotland, Italy, Lebanon, Wales, and Jamaica are the other teams in that half.

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2 hours ago, 17 stone giant said:

Sometimes organisations have to take leadership decisions affecting those they are responsible for. That's what the Aussie and NZ administrators have done. The idea that everything can always be resolved by asking the players, is just not reality. You have administrators in order to make decisions on things. That's what they're paid for. Sometimes you might agree with their decisions, sometimes you might not. But that's how it is. They have a responsibility to more than just players. What about all the people that have to travel with the team - people who might be older and more vulnerable than elite athletes.

When statements are made that the players were consulted before the decision was made (when they weren't) is not what you'd say if you simply protecting them and doing your job as administrator. 

The player contracts say they cannot be obstructed from playing international matches. Covid has been used to get around that. Other sports have no problem with travel and with less protection than offered by the WC committee. 

No one is going to go if they don't want to, including back up staff.

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My blog: https://rugbyl.blogspot.co.nz/

It takes wisdom to know when a discussion has run its course.

It takes reasonableness to end that discussion. 

 

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20 minutes ago, Damien said:

Fingers crossed. Whilst I'm not keen on teams based on race if it means the World Cup goes ahead I'm all for it:

An Australian Indigenous and New Zealand Maori team will be included in this year’s World Cup as replacements for Australia and New Zealand after a significant player push.

It comes as the 16 NRL clubs prepare a statement detailing their angst at the World Cup going ahead. The letter is expected to arrive as early as Friday. Club chief executives will publicly back the ARLC’s decision to withdraw the Kangaroos.

Clubs won’t be able to stop their players from representing other nations at the World Cup but hope it can be delayed by 12 months.

While Australia and New Zealand won’t feature there has been a growing push for an Indigenous and Maori team to be included.

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport/nrl/sport-confidential-indigenous-and-maori-teams-for-world-cup-bulldogs-sneaky-bid-to-fastrack-paul-vaughan-ban/news-story/8bfb616639e82df12749d00e661326f6

Sounds promising, if the NRL clubs are suddenly issuing statements then hopefully they are on the back foot and getting rattled. The PI nations seem to be on board, whilst Indigenous Australia and Maori NZ could put out two seriously high quality teams with the players available. From the article I particularly like: Clubs won’t be able to stop their players from representing other nations

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6 hours ago, Barley Mow said:

Do you not think that migration from Pacific islands will continue in future generations?

I'd have thought there will be a continuing supply of new people moving to Australia/New Zealand so that there will still be people with islander parents & grand parents even though there will also be people who's closest relatives are great grandparents, etc.

Yes and that definitely crossed my mind. Having got up this morning and read your post I went and had a cursory look at Pacific Island migration trends. I`m going to have a read of it and I`ll let you know what I find out. It looked quite interesting.

 

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38 minutes ago, Damien said:

Fingers crossed. Whilst I'm not keen on teams based on race if it means the World Cup goes ahead I'm all for it:

An Australian Indigenous and New Zealand Maori team will be included in this year’s World Cup as replacements for Australia and New Zealand after a significant player push.

It comes as the 16 NRL clubs prepare a statement detailing their angst at the World Cup going ahead. The letter is expected to arrive as early as Friday. Club chief executives will publicly back the ARLC’s decision to withdraw the Kangaroos.

Clubs won’t be able to stop their players from representing other nations at the World Cup but hope it can be delayed by 12 months.

While Australia and New Zealand won’t feature there has been a growing push for an Indigenous and Maori team to be included.

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport/nrl/sport-confidential-indigenous-and-maori-teams-for-world-cup-bulldogs-sneaky-bid-to-fastrack-paul-vaughan-ban/news-story/8bfb616639e82df12749d00e661326f6

Wow !! this is really going to throw a spanner in the works now for all the non-indigenous players who would have liked to have played as well. What`s Christian Welch going to say.

Unbelievable, the thlot plickens.

The clubs are looking really isolated and desperate, " detailing their angst" what a load of old cobblers.

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I think they really need to decide quick now one way or the other.

Some indigenous players might be packing there bags who otherwise were not good enough for Australia. However, Daly Cherry Evans might be kicking stones as he will miss out altogether.

Its really opened a can of worms now.

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On 28/07/2021 at 20:11, The Rocket said:

 

I wonder with Gould being involved this may be about Penrith?

Think about it, most of the Panthers team would be involved in the WC. They are a young team, they played in last years NRLGF into October and then an Origin series they look like going into the NRLGF this year also then would be off to England 2 weeks later. Also alot played Origin this year also.

This is the club that Gould thinks he is the great guru of. With the Covid situation and bubbles etc. they have been through he comes to V'landys and says they can't go it will wreck them.

Nothing like self interest to ruin rugby league.

 

Edited by rlno1
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31 minutes ago, The Rocket said:

Wow !! this is really going to throw a spanner in the works now for all the non-indigenous players who would have liked to have played as well. What`s Christian Welch going to say.

Unbelievable, the thlot plickens.

The clubs are looking really isolated and desperate, " detailing their angst" what a load of old cobblers.

Looks like player power is swinging things in favour of the WC going ahead so If the NRL really have player welfare at heart now is the opportunity to say they will VERY RELUCTANTLY approve an official Kangaroo team so they can provide the best possible welfare support to the players who are coming over. That gives them a face saving way out.

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We used to hear in the past Australia could make 3 rep teams & they would beat everyone.

Even in 1995 with arl players only they won the world cup even though in the semi final nz could of almost won.

I dont think this is the case now. Lets be realistic once the finals are over and every injured player & every player not wanting to go for personal reasons is excluded both NZ / Aus both could put out very competitive sides.

I mean NZ could even pull a few players from Super League if there stocks were so low - I remember the Paul brothers coming out mid season & blitzing it in tests against Australia.

You think of how many potential players for Australia who have not even played in the UK yet in a Test Match.

I know it is unlikely to happen but so what if for arguments sake Aus got beaten by Samoa in a Quarter final if say 6 of there best players didn't come over. It wouldn't affect ticket sales for the semis or final would it - might even increase demand knowing someone else would win it for a change.

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1 hour ago, Damien said:

Fingers crossed. Whilst I'm not keen on teams based on race if it means the World Cup goes ahead I'm all for it:

An Australian Indigenous and New Zealand Maori team will be included in this year’s World Cup as replacements for Australia and New Zealand after a significant player push.

It comes as the 16 NRL clubs prepare a statement detailing their angst at the World Cup going ahead. The letter is expected to arrive as early as Friday. Club chief executives will publicly back the ARLC’s decision to withdraw the Kangaroos.

Clubs won’t be able to stop their players from representing other nations at the World Cup but hope it can be delayed by 12 months.

While Australia and New Zealand won’t feature there has been a growing push for an Indigenous and Maori team to be included.

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport/nrl/sport-confidential-indigenous-and-maori-teams-for-world-cup-bulldogs-sneaky-bid-to-fastrack-paul-vaughan-ban/news-story/8bfb616639e82df12749d00e661326f6

Talk about shooting your own testicles.

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1 minute ago, Whippet13 said:

Looks like player power is swinging things in favour of the WC going ahead so If the NRL really have player welfare at heart now is the opportunity to say they will VERY RELUCTANTLY approve an official Kangaroo team so they can provide the best possible welfare support to the players who are coming over. That gives them a face saving way out.

Exactly, it's such a frustrating situation because the backlash from the players and fans has exposed the ARLC and their pathetic attempt to pull the wool over our eyes but V'landys has his head so far up his own ###### he'll never just admit he was wrong and revoke the decision. As you've said a clear out has been given to them following this backlash but one mans ego will prevent the correct decision from happening. 

As a leader you have to be able to cut your losses and own up when the wrong decision has been made so the best outcome can be achieved, even if it means taking full responsibility for the embarrassing situation we are currently in.

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38 minutes ago, rlno1 said:

I wonder with Gould being involved this may be about Penrith?

Think about it, most of the Panthers team would be involved in the WC. They are a young team, they played in last years NRLGF into October and then an Origin series they look like going into the NRLGF this year also then would be off to England 2 weeks later. Also alot played Origin this year also.

This is the club that Gould thinks he is the great guru of. With the Covid situation and bubbles etc. they have been through he comes to V'landys and says they can't go it will wreck them.

Nothing like self interest to ruin rugby league.

 

 

24 minutes ago, Whippet13 said:

Looks like player power is swinging things in favour of the WC going ahead so If the NRL really have player welfare at heart now is the opportunity to say they will VERY RELUCTANTLY approve an official Kangaroo team so they can provide the best possible welfare support to the players who are coming over. That gives them a face saving way out.

The implications of this are huge, there`s going to be load of Indigenous players now who have been sounded out about playing and are obviously ready to go. If the NRL try and postpone it to next year then they will be looking to send a mixed team and a lot of Indigenous players will miss out, Cody Walker, Dane Gagai, Alex Johnston etc.etc. being obvious ones.

This will cause a real stink because then all of a sudden the NRL are leaving themselves open to claims of racism and there will a lot of disgruntled indigenous players. They should rightly insist on being allowed to go this year.

Wonder how much Wayne Bennett is pushing this, there is a lot of Indigenous players at Souths that will now be looking forward to the trip. The other thing is Bennett and Gould don`t get on.

I reckon with all the BLM stuff around the world seeing purely indigenous teams representing ostensibly white countries will make for great publicity, if they put on some of that spine-tingling traditional dance they did at the Indigenous All-Stars games, it will bring the house down.

The timing couldn`t be better.

Edited by The Rocket
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2 hours ago, 17 stone giant said:

But they asked for it to be moved until 2022. They haven't said they don't want there to be a World Cup - they've said only that they don't feel able to attend this year.

I don't understand therefore what the big conspiracy is supposed to be. Can you explain to me please what they are achieving by wanting the World Cup delayed for one year. What will they be gaining by doing this?

It's not the first time they've come here for a world cup. They did so in 1995, 2000, and 2013 (as well as agreeing prior to the Covid outbreak to come here this year). Can you please outline to me what their masterplan is? Why do they want the WC postponed for a year?

Do you want RL to grow and be played in other countries? If so this is why we have a World Cup, not just to celebrate the game but to maximise revenue so we can pump it back into smaller nations to help fund and grow the game. This WC was headed for record revenue. This is what the Rugby Union do also with their World Cup and what has seen their sport grow so much since it started in 1987.

I for one do not want to watch Origin for the next 30 years, I want my sport to grow and be the biggest and best it can be.

We should be praising people like Jon Dutton and the magnificent job he and his team has done. I call for a knighthood if he pulls this off with the 11th hour obstacles put in front of him.

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5 hours ago, GeordieSaint said:

Axed the mid season Pacific tests.

Note: Scubby already brought it up.

Are the mid season Pacific tests gone for good?!?! These tests are what got me into RL.

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5 hours ago, RayCee said:

When the defections came, I was hopeful the WC would proceed without them and the game would prove it is bigger than any of its parts. The holding off an announcement could be due diligence but also an admission they are dependent on certain nations being there.

If the tournament ends up being a break even affair rather than a profit maker, then surely press on. Only a loss making WC is to be cancelled. If the WC is cancelled, it will prove the game is dependent on one of its parts to do anything.

Before the announcement from Australia and NZ the world cup was well ahead of where it had planned to be financially. 

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15 minutes ago, Keith989 said:

Are the mid season Pacific tests gone for good?!?! These tests are what got me into RL.

The IRL were due to release the international plans soon. They have put together a detailed calender. I for one think a 6 or 8 nations played between each world cup period should be started. There are enough strong teams now. It could be like 2 groups of 4 with a final or semi and final played over 4 or 5 weeks.

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Still reckon they should have picked two other countries. Be a real farce if these two  indigenous teams get to the final and they could.

They only good thing I see coming out of it is that will hit the NRLs pre season.

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  • John Drake changed the title to Rugby League World Cup 2021 (Merged Threads)
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