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Rugby League World Cup 2021 (Merged Threads)


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5 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

I think it has much the same issues because they are, to a large extent, mirrors of each other.

But, yes, not having enough money to do things well has been a constant problem for the RFL. The NRL's issue is that they are Scrooge McDuck with a rugby shirt.

Indeed, it is a vicious cycle. 

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4 minutes ago, Toby Chopra said:

Why would you let the selfish behaviour of some Australian businessesmen take away one of your life's great pleasures?

It's probably too late to save this world cup, but longer term we can rebuild. 

There are two rugby leagues now, one based around Sydney and one around Northern England. Players may move between the two but too all intents and purposes they're separate sports. It's schism 2.0 without the blacklisting.

I feel much the same as Dunbar. The game for me is no longer is one of lifes great pleasures and my enjoyment of it is shrinking by the year. The last few years decision making has seen a serious short sightedness and self interest that is destroying the game and shrinking its footprint. The game is blindly walking down a path, both domestically and internationally, that many of us have seen coming for years.

Literally from being incredibly optimistic a couple of years ago I see little to be enthusiastic about. Toulouse are still treading water stuck in the Championship and France 2025 now looks like a sick joke after it was pushed by the NRL (to get them out of hosting it). Im not even going to talk about Toronto and the lost opportunities I'm Canada. On the field there is less and less to enjoy about the sport with it being constantly changed by adding gimmicks for TV, funnily enough led by the very man intent on destroying the World Cup.

Your third paragraph sort of answers why we can't rebuild in your second paragraph. International RL is what I have enjoyed more than anything, the 2008 World Cup elevated it to a fantastic event after the 2000 disaster. Yet we have single handedly failed to capitalise on anything that has taken place in that time and instead look intent on destroying it all. Carrots get dangled now and again, new plans drawn up like clockwork but nothing gets done. There's no progress. Now with the push the scrap mid season internationals and the attempt to destroy the World Cup things are getting worse. Much worse.

Blind loyalty has kept me in the game the last 5 years or so. Now I'm just thinking if those in the game don't give a toss about saving it why should I.

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34 minutes ago, Damien said:

And the dirty tactics continue. Nothing the NRL does surprises me anymore. A despicable organisation:

Kick-off in the NRL Telstra Women's Premiership has been delayed until October due to the COVID-19 pandemic with the six-week competition to be held as a standalone event.

https://www.nrl.com/news/2021/07/30/nrlw-now-a-standalone-october-event-after-kick-off-delay/

That is disgraceful! For once I have no response.

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12 minutes ago, DC77 said:

Smith is genuine, but few here grasp those concerns.

 

I saw those comments from Smith and my thoughts were he`d be better off keeping his trap shut, or at least think before he opens his mouth.

He`s experienced WC finals and playing overseas so what right does he have to undermine the right of blokes and girls who haven`t. He should be fighting for them.

He`s talking with his NRL hat on. I say to him, ######-off and find some other way to deal with your relevancy deprivation syndrome.

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The NRL statement is a joke and indicates to me they are getting desperate, it is full of lies, omissions and half truths.

Yet again there is absolutely no reference to say they have spoken to their players, nor does it indicate ANY support for the ARLC decision from players.

Should be easy for the RLWC to issue a reply both publically and via the RLPA to every NRL player debunking it.

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We have gone from a Confederations Cup on a four year cycle, the biggest Mens/Womens/Wheelchair World Cup in history with £25m government funding, 2025 World Cup in USA and Canada.....

.... to a 2 day 9s tournament and no World Cup at all. Plus a bankrupt IRL.

We literally get what we deserve!

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1 minute ago, Whippet13 said:

The NRL statement is a joke and indicates to me they are getting desperate, it is full of lies, omissions and half truths.

Yet again there is absolutely no reference to say they have spoken to their players, nor does it indicate ANY support for the ARLC decision from players.

Should be easy for the RLWC to issue a reply both publically and via the RLPA to every NRL player debunking it.

The only thing that can save the world cup now is for at least 3/4 of the players to come out on the record and say they want to come. That would get enough attention to make the NRL uncomfortable. 

Short of a major public showdown with their own players, it's hard to see how to stop them now. 

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14 minutes ago, Toby Chopra said:

Sort of, but the context matters.

That international board was still entirely dependent on the approval, support and funding of its constituent members, the ARL, the RFL and the NZRL. They were just largely on the same page. 

And those governing bodies had, relatively, more power than they do now becasue the game wasn't fully professional. 

Once players could earn themselves (and others) decent full time careers, their employers (the clubs) would inevitably become more powerful. It's happened in other sports too, and indeed also applies in England.

We've seen the English clubs do things that many others have objected to, such as trying to block mid season tests down under, just not on this scale. It's massively in the English clubs' interests for this world cup to go ahead, but let's not claim they wouldn't or couldn't try something similar. 

I was referring to the the old RL International Federation when they approved things like 4pt tries, sin bins, 6 tackles and a host of other rules through the years. I recall when they brought in neutral referees after a particular France v England game at Headingley in 1981 won 5-1 by the French in a game controlled by a Frenchmen. They also put out a calendar of tours which surprisingly took place.

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5 minutes ago, Damien said:

Blind loyalty has kept me in the game the last 5 years or so. Now I'm just thinking if those in the game don't give a toss about saving it why should I.

To be honest, if it wasn't for this forum and folk on twitter, I'd have probably long since gone. Through those routes you get to see the good stuff. But it's getting less and less easy to see the point.

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Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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1 minute ago, Damien said:

I feel much the same as Dunbar. The game for me is no longer is one of lifes great pleasures and my enjoyment of it is shrinking by the year. The last few years decision making has seen a serious short sightedness and self interest that is destroying the game and shrinking its footprint. The game is blindly walking down a path, both domestically and internationally, that many of us have seen coming for years.

Literally from being incredibly optimistic a couple of years ago I see little to be enthusiastic about. Toulouse are still treading water stuck in the Championship and France 2025 now looks like a sick joke after it was pushed by the NRL (to get them out of hosting it). Im not even going to talk about Toronto and the lost opportunities I'm Canada. On the field there is less and less to enjoy about the sport with it being constantly changed by adding gimmicks for TV, funnily enough led by the very man intent on destroying the World Cup.

Your third paragraph sort of answers why we can't rebuild in your second paragraph. International RL is what I have enjoyed more than anything, the 2008 World Cup elevated it to a fantastic event after the 2000 disaster. Yet we have single handedly failed to capitalise on anything that has taken place in that time and instead look intent on destroying it all. Carrots get dangled now and again, new plans drawn up like clockwork but nothing gets done. There's no progress. Now with the push the scrap mid season internationals and the attempt to destroy the World Cup things are getting worse. Much worse.

Blind loyalty has kept me in the game the last 5 years or so. Now I'm just thinking if those in the game don't give a toss about saving it why should I.

I think a lot of us are ready to walk away. I've been involved nearly all my life but I'm just disillusioned now. If people want a part time game played in a few towns in Northern England with no international games for England then I'm sure they'll get what they want.

Too much self interest in RL has stifled the game on lots of ways 

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31 minutes ago, Toby Chopra said:

Why would you let the selfish behaviour of some Australian businessesmen take away one of your life's great pleasures?

It's probably too late to save this world cup, but longer term we can rebuild. 

There are two rugby leagues now, one based around Sydney and one around Northern England. Players may move between the two but too all intents and purposes they're separate sports. It's schism 2.0 without the blacklisting.

I'm just tired of Rugby League defeating itself.

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1 minute ago, Toby Chopra said:

The only thing that can save the world cup now is for at least 3/4 of the players to come out on the record and say they want to come. That would get enough attention to make the NRL uncomfortable. 

Short of a major public showdown with their own players, it's hard to see how to stop them now. 

The players are professionals who need careers though.

They might stamp their feet but how many, ultimately, are going to ruin their reputations with their current and future employers for a one-off tournament on the other side of the world?

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Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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Just now, Dunbar said:

I'm just tired of Rugby League defeating itself.

I'm devastated. I'm from RU country, lifelong supporter of an RU side, and only got into RL because Oxford opened up playing over the road from my house and I'd got nothing better to do on Sunday afternoons.

Since then, I've been to nearly all the SL grounds, become a (casual) Trin fan, met some great people, and fallen in love with what the game could be.

Given I've still got my RU season ticket it would be very easy for me to drift away again just because I wasn't born into RL and it's not in my DNA. I chose it. 

You can regret choices of course....

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30 minutes ago, Jim from Oz said:

More lies here:

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/political-football-why-boris-johnson-is-hell-bent-on-rlwc-going-ahead-20210729-p58dyi.html

 

“I understand the changing political fortunes of rugby league in England,” Beattie said, “but we’ve been fighting for two years now to keep the game alive in Australia in the face of a pandemic and the health of the players is more important.”

Yet when Beattie and fellow ARLC commissioner Wayne Pearce sat on an IRL board meeting two weeks ago, they voted for the RLWC to proceed.

Asked on Friday why he changed his view when the ARLC and the NZRL made a joint announcement the Kangaroos and Kiwis would not participate (the ARLC part-funds the NZRL), Beattie said: “The deadly Delta virus, the lockdown in Sydney and the move of the game to Queensland. That was the game-changer, the Sydney outbreak.”

Beattie also expressed concerns that “a lot of the players aren’t vaccinated” and conceded an understandable reluctance from government “to give priority to footballers.”

“We can’t send players to England unvaccinated,” he said. “Sure, the vaccination rate in England is higher than here but so is the infection rate.”

Significantly, the Wallabies plan to be in England in November.

Asked about the potential loss of £25m, together with the lucrative sponsorships tournament organisers have secured, Beattie said: “It’s a big loss. But if the players got sick, think of the long-term damage.”

Name one sportsman in the world killed or severely ill from Covid when participating in a tournament.

Beattie another on the News Ltd payroll. Part of the game's hijacking.

Worst of all a bloody politician.

Edited by rlno1
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30 minutes ago, Whippet13 said:

That is an atrocious decision, disgusting from the NRL.

Allegedly Fiji are up for joining the womens comp tbough, and it won't be hard to find another womens team. Wales would probably bite the RLWCs hand off at the opportunity and it would be a huge boost for the womens game there.

Australia can play NZ for the next 40 years....the public will soon get bored.

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5 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

The players are professionals who need careers though.

They might stamp their feet but how many, ultimately, are going to ruin their reputations with their current and future employers for a one-off tournament on the other side of the world?

Almost none. 

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7 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

To be honest, if it wasn't for this forum and folk on twitter, I'd have probably long since gone. Through those routes you get to see the good stuff. But it's getting less and less easy to see the point.

Same here.

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Having read the statement and the reports on it I'm not sure this is the fatal blow it's being reported as. It strikes me as a bluff to get the WC moved to 2022 and exert pressure on the WC organisers as they've conceded they're on a short turnaround. I don't really care what their opinion is we knew that already they have no interest above not affecting their own seasons.

The fact that there's this statement that they don't have to release players because Australia withdrew is just non-sensical. I think the whole thing can be dismissed as a power play because the WC/IRL are speaking directly to the players now and cutting the NRL/clubs out of it. 

Edited by DI Keith Fowler
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I was born to run a club like this. Number 1, I do not spook easily, and those who think I do, are wasting their time, with their surprise attacks.

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5 minutes ago, rlno1 said:

Name one sportsman in the world killed or severely ill from Covid when participating in a tournament.

Beattie another on the News Ltd payroll. Part of the game's hijacking.

Worst of all a bloody politician.

Yep, everything Beattie says in that article is a lie

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21 minutes ago, Toby Chopra said:

Sort of, but the context matters.

That international board was still entirely dependent on the approval, support and funding of its constituent members, the ARL, the RFL and the NZRL. They were just largely on the same page. 

And those governing bodies had, relatively, more power than they do now becasue the game wasn't fully professional. 

Once players could earn themselves (and others) decent full time careers, their employers (the clubs) would inevitably become more powerful. It's happened in other sports too, and indeed also applies in England.

We've seen the English clubs do things that many others have objected to, such as trying to block mid season tests down under, just not on this scale. It's massively in the English clubs' interests for this world cup to go ahead, but let's not claim they wouldn't or couldn't try something similar. 

Actually that isn't true. SL clubs have supported many mid-year tests, including games in Australia and New Zealand, and creating concepts like Exiles to support the England team. 

There have been pragmatic approaches taken like capping the numbers of players, but there has never been a refusal or insistence on them not being played. 

Things like staging games on the same night as the England game this year was poor - but they still provided players and took the hit themselves. 

The RFL has plenty of faukts, and has done many things badly, supporting the international game has been one of the better things they have done. 

These modern World Cups started in the UK in 1995, and followed up in 2000 which nearly bankrupted the sport here. We are due to stage our fourth World Cup in 26 years on these shores this year. 

We have driven forward tri nations, four nations and tried to create a strong IRL with power - indeed it is that that has put the Aussies noses out of joint. 

For all the talk about the development of the game in the Pacific, that is an outcome of the make-up of Australia which has largely driven that, teams in Europe have still played far more games over the last decade or two with far more structure. 

Again, I'll caveat it that much of what the RFL has done has been bang average on many levels, and I'm not championing them here, but they are white Knights compared to the Aussies who people loved to cheer until last week. 

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The WC just has to go ahead regardless. I've never been one for waving a white flag. I won't give up on RL but have already stopped watching the NRL. Not that it hurts them but I can't stomach the people who run the comp. 

 

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My blog: https://rugbyl.blogspot.co.nz/

It takes wisdom to know when a discussion has run its course.

It takes reasonableness to end that discussion. 

 

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32 minutes ago, DC77 said:

Smith is genuine, but few here grasp those concerns.

Listening to the BBC’s RL podcast this week it was interesting to hear a contributor from NRL.com. The Aussies have a totally different approach to this virus than here. 100 people in Aus being diagnosed with covid daily has forced the place into lockdown, while here 50k diagnosed daily and we are open. There’s also a different approach to the vaccine programme which would explain the difference. He pointed out the difference with the Aussie Olympic team who were isolated together before going to Japan as a group where they will stay in a bubble, and they come home as soon as their participation is over). Cricket and RU also just one team, whereas RL it’s over 500 people from the NRL, and they all spread out to different teams, each of them sharing facilities with the general public and play in a country where 50k are diagnosed daily. Basically he was putting forward genuine concerns.

Wouldn't the teams that don't get past the group stages or quarter finals go home? Not all 500 stay until the final.

The quarter finals are on November 12 and the Final is on 27th. That's two weeks later.

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  • John Drake changed the title to Rugby League World Cup 2021 (Merged Threads)
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