New Zealand and aussie selections

[The storm]

So now that we now where we stand with the insular NRL, perhaps we should pick an aussie and new Zealand select from UK and French clubs 

I reckon they will be more than competitive. 

 

I suspect however that the NRL will also stop Fiji, Tonga and Samoa from playing. 

[Eddie]

Let’s see how the dust settles, I don’t think this is over yet. 

[yipyee]

46 minutes ago, The storm said:

So now that we now where we stand with the insular NRL, perhaps we should pick an aussie and new Zealand select from UK and French clubs 

I reckon they will be more than competitive. 

 

I suspect however that the NRL will also stop Fiji, Tonga and Samoa from playing. 

Some of the players from the above turned their backs on Aus and NZ to play for the above, that shows passion for their countries, would they not just say no to Australia again?

[GUBRATS]

7 hours ago, yipyee said:

Some of the players from the above turned their backs on Aus and NZ to play for the above, that shows passion for their countries, would they not just say no to Australia again?

It'll be pressure from the clubs on individual players , not necessarily the national administration's , although I can see the offer of a Pacific 6 nation's being put forward as a financial bribe to the smaller nations 

[Adelaide Tiger]

Here is a thought why not invite indigenous teams from both Australia and New Zealand?

I doubt in the current political correct climate that neither V’Landys nor NRL owners or coaches have got the bottle or the balls to tell Indigenous players that they cannot represent their culture.

[Mumby Magic]

And the credibility of the tournament goes downhill if an invitational team wins it.

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

5 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

It'll be pressure from the clubs on individual players , not necessarily the national administration's , although I can see the offer of a Pacific 6 nation's being put forward as a financial bribe to the smaller nations 

A competition is nailed on I think. Probably already been discussed and agreed below the table

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

8 minutes ago, Mumby Magic said:

And the credibility of the tournament goes downhill if an invitational team wins it.

I disagree. Plenty of international cricket at moment where loads of first choice players not travelling 

It would be a team of Australians representing Australia.... Apart from us tragics here no one else knows their Val Holmes from their Tommy Turbo

[M j M]

11 minutes ago, Adelaide Tiger said:

Here is a thought why not invite indigenous teams from both Australia and New Zealand?

I doubt in the current political correct climate that neither V’Landys nor NRL owners or coaches have got the bottle or the balls to tell Indigenous players that they cannot represent their culture.

The sport went down this deeply misguided route in the 2000 World Cup and fortunately hasn't repeated it. This has to remain a competition for nation states or clear political units which identify as nations or national groupings. Selection based on race or ethnicity may seem to be in the moment but it opens up a huge can of worms.

[Adelaide Tiger]

12 minutes ago, M j M said:

The sport went down this deeply misguided route in the 2000 World Cup and fortunately hasn't repeated it. This has to remain a competition for nation states or clear political units which identify as nations or national groupings. Selection based on race or ethnicity may seem to be in the moment but it opens up a huge can of worms.

So what would you do?

[DoubleD]

1 hour ago, Adelaide Tiger said:

Here is a thought why not invite indigenous teams from both Australia and New Zealand?

I doubt in the current political correct climate that neither V’Landys nor NRL owners or coaches have got the bottle or the balls to tell Indigenous players that they cannot represent their culture.

The players are grouping up and trying this route 

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport/nrl/rugby-league-world-cup-2021-nrl-clubs-headed-for-world-cup-showdown-australia-nz-withdraw/news-story/4dfcc41de0c6604a044590c679ed7014?amp&nk=0bce5069b6f03255cee2857cfcdc70d5-1627131049&__twitter_impression=true

I tend to agree with @M j Mthough that it would devalue the comp a bit and also it would ruin the value of the kangaroo and kiwi (if it still has any) jersey. It would be preferable than no tournament at all though. 

Hopefully it’s just a tool to apply pressure. If you can’t read that whole article, Josh Addo-Carr and Cody Walker are leading this

[Mr Frisky]

2 hours ago, Mumby Magic said:

And the credibility of the tournament goes downhill if an invitational team wins it.

But publicly goes up.

[Damien]

National teams only please. I would much rather the players devote their energy into getting their governing bodies to change their minds rather mess about with Indigenous and Maori teams. It was laughable in 2000 and would be just as laughable now. 

It is also greatly unfair to those nations that did try to qualify and failed to do so. They should get first refusal.

[Whippet13]

Australian Indigenous and NZ Maori very much consider themselves "nations" as I understand it, hence the emerging enthusiasm from players. They could easily be sold to the public  in the WC given the very unsavoury and public circumstances surrounding the withdrawal by NZRL and NRL/ARL, and I think they would be hugely popular over here.

[Gates1]

I dont mid the idea of the indigenous teams to be honest.

I could see both been competitive,

 

Tonga, Somoa, etc! been stronger than ever (let's face it if you qualify and are 30+ it's your last chance to play in a world cup ).  

It could actually be the most competitive world cup ever.

 

[Damien]

1 hour ago, Whippet13 said:

Australian Indigenous and NZ Maori very much consider themselves "nations" as I understand it, hence the emerging enthusiasm from players. They could easily be sold to the public  in the WC given the very unsavoury and public circumstances surrounding the withdrawal by NZRL and NRL/ARL, and I think they would be hugely popular over here.

They are not nations and I don't think it would be popular in the slightest. I also think its divisive. We went down this road once before and the game was ridiculed.

[DoubleD]

54 minutes ago, Damien said:

They are not nations and I don't think it would be popular in the slightest. I also think its divisive. We went down this road once before and the game was ridiculed.

The difference this time is they’d be seen as ‘rebel’ teams but for good reasons and I think they’d gain a lot of support for coming over against administrators wishes 

[ELBOWSEYE]

1 hour ago, Damien said:

They are not nations and I don't think it would be popular in the slightest. I also think its divisive. We went down this road once before and the game was ridiculed.

The game is always ridiculed, there is a lot of negotiation going on so who knows the outcome, but the players inthe nrl can put pressure on the decision makers. We cannot delay the world cup. So get the Aussies on board it still can be done 

[Damien]

32 minutes ago, DoubleD said:

The difference this time is they’d be seen as ‘rebel’ teams but for good reasons and I think they’d gain a lot of support for coming over against administrators wishes 

Well we could have rebel australia and nz if that was the case. Not that I particularly advocate that either.

[Dunbar]

I posted on the other thread that I would have two new teams replace Australia and New Zealand rather than a rebel team. My argument is that a World Cup is for nations.

But I have to say the idea of First Nation indigenous teams instead has a real attraction.  It would generate a lot of interest and the players defying the ARL/NRL would show that money and  club fixtures are not the only thing that matters.

If it happens I wouldn't hate it.

[Adelaide Tiger]

8 hours ago, Damien said:

They are not nations and I don't think it would be popular in the slightest. I also think its divisive. We went down this road once before and the game was ridiculed.

I agree that the game received negative press and some ridicule in 2000 and that was deserved as the NZ Maori team was invited to make the number up to a workable 16 teams.

In 2021 we are looking to solve a totally different issue that has been forced upon the organisers.  Reports say that up to 75% of Australian and New Zealand players that have been contacted by the media have stated that they want to participate and it is not their fault that the ARLC have unilaterally taken that away from them.

The ARLC and its NZ counterpart have quite rightly been described and criticised as being inward-looking in reaching their decision.  So, do we act in such a manner by saying to those players ‘tough we do not want you because not competing as a fully fledged Australian or NZ team will devalue the integrity of the completion’.  These players understand that the WC is worth something and they should be applauded and supported in taking a stance that is at odds to the ARLC.

After my initial post relating to Indigenous teams, I realise that the concept is not viable as many players willing to play would not qualify for those teams. So why not have them compete as Australian and NZ Invitational XIII - similar to how Tonga were named in their last international (and I didn’t see many on here bemoaning that fact). This would send an incredibly powerful message to V’Landys et al that the ARLC cannot ride roughshod over the international game to suit their agendas and it is the players themselves that should decide if they want to participate or not in future events.

Surely such invitational teams will have more credibility than picking players solely from SL teams to take part - imagine the UK press saying that players not good enough to play in the NRL are representing their country.  Also if the organisers choose to pick two other national teams such teams as the USA, Serbia, Russia to participate then surely we are pandering and surrendering the International game to the ARLC.

In such an unprecedented situation we should be doing whatever is possible to encourage as many of the worlds leading players to participate and not deny them opportunity because of internal politics in their own country.

Let’s be honest here, there will be some opposition from RL supporters in this country if Invitational teams are accepted and no doubt some of the sporting media will do the same.  But if the participation of such teams is embraced by as many as possible and the organisers promote their inclusion in a positive manner then the WC can be a success.

[Barley Mow]

6 hours ago, Adelaide Tiger said:

I agree that the game received negative press and some ridicule in 2000 and that was deserved as the NZ Maori team was invited to make the number up to a workable 16 teams.

In 2021 we are looking to solve a totally different issue that has been forced upon the organisers.  Reports say that up to 75% of Australian and New Zealand players that have been contacted by the media have stated that they want to participate and it is not their fault that the ARLC have unilaterally taken that away from them.

The ARLC and its NZ counterpart have quite rightly been described and criticised as being inward-looking in reaching their decision.  So, do we act in such a manner by saying to those players ‘tough we do not want you because not competing as a fully fledged Australian or NZ team will devalue the integrity of the completion’.  These players understand that the WC is worth something and they should be applauded and supported in taking a stance that is at odds to the ARLC.

After my initial post relating to Indigenous teams, I realise that the concept is not viable as many players willing to play would not qualify for those teams. So why not have them compete as Australian and NZ Invitational XIII - similar to how Tonga were named in their last international (and I didn’t see many on here bemoaning that fact). This would send an incredibly powerful message to V’Landys et al that the ARLC cannot ride roughshod over the international game to suit their agendas and it is the players themselves that should decide if they want to participate or not in future events.

Surely such invitational teams will have more credibility than picking players solely from SL teams to take part - imagine the UK press saying that players not good enough to play in the NRL are representing their country.  Also if the organisers choose to pick two other national teams such teams as the USA, Serbia, Russia to participate then surely we are pandering and surrendering the International game to the ARLC.

In such an unprecedented situation we should be doing whatever is possible to encourage as many of the worlds leading players to participate and not deny them opportunity because of internal politics in their own country.

Let’s be honest here, there will be some opposition from RL supporters in this country if Invitational teams are accepted and no doubt some of the sporting media will do the same.  But if the participation of such teams is embraced by as many as possible and the organisers promote their inclusion in a positive manner then the WC can be a success.

As I understand it, NRL clubs have an obligation to release their players for international matches.

I don't think that would apply for either indigenous or invitational XIII's.

[bobbruce]

1 hour ago, Barley Mow said:

As I understand it, NRL clubs have an obligation to release their players for international matches.

I don't think that would apply for either indigenous or invitational XIII's.

I would hazard a guess the indigenous and Maori teams idea will suit the NRL to a tee. If the IRL turn them down they become the bad guys in the Aussie press. If we run with them the NRL and clubs can choose to not release the players last minute and cock up the tournament. For me we should run with the teams left or if we want two more teams invite the teams that just missed out in qualifying. 

[Barley Mow]

Just now, bobbruce said:

we should run with the teams left or if we want two more teams invite the teams that just missed out in qualifying

Agreed.

The concern is that the other SH nations pull out under pressure from Aus (& NZ).

[wiganermike]

1 minute ago, bobbruce said:

I would hazard a guess the indigenous and Maori teams idea will suit the NRL to a tee. If the IRL turn them down they become the bad guys in the Aussie press. If we run with them the NRL and clubs can choose to not release the players last minute and cock up the tournament. For me we should run with the teams left or if we want two more teams invite the teams that just missed out in qualifying. 

I agree with this, also including any team representing any part of Aus/NZ allows the people that have torpedoed the WC to crow and claim credit should they win it. Bring in the USA plus one other and play the WC without Aus & NZ. We should also form a NH competition and prioritise playing that rather than those two in future. SH tour opponents (and tourists) should be the PI nations (assuming they are not forced to withdraw as well by those down under). As Barley Mow and others have said on different threads it is absolutely key that the PI nations come to take part in the World Cup.