Rugby league-could some lessons be learned from cricket?

[The Frying Scotsman]

One simple lesson they could learn from the Hundred is the merchandising. 

Both the Hundred and the RLWC are partnered with New Era hats for example.

However if we look at the difference in quality of offering, the difference is huge.

Rugby League:

https://shop.rlwc2021.com/collections/new-era 

versus Cricket: 

https://www.neweracap.co.uk/en-gb/sports/the-hundred/

Same brand... but the RLWC offering looks incredibly poor quality and badly thought out compared to the Hundred, despite both competitions running for a similar period of time. The Hundred will doubtless have a new range in place for next year. The RLWC range looks just like something you would associate with a very "small time" event, and it does not even appear on the New Era website - it is only sold via the RLWC store. 

[phiggins]

1 hour ago, gingerjon said:

The crowd was 11,000.

Nottinghamshire's average in 2019 was over 12,000.

I'm not sure comparing 2019 blast attendances with 2021 Hundred attendances is particularly valid though, for a couple of reasons. First, the '19 Blast had a massive boost in attendances, thanks to the World Cup win, while sport in 2021 is recovering from the pandemic. People have lost jobs, and some are still cautious about going into crowds.

Just to give an example, Lancs v Durham this year was scheduled for 16th July, after restrictions were originally to end. With the Lancs v Yorks game the day after. When 'step 4' was put back to 19th July, the 25% capacity restriction was only a problem for the Yorkshire game. In 2019, 13k attended Lancs-Durham.

Second reason is, it's not really competing with the blast this year. It's effectively replacing the 50 over comp. Not sure how I feel about that to be honest. There'll be a decision to be made on that next year, as the England team will start to add more focus on that format, but on the other hand I'm not sure the RL cup was of much standard to help the national side.

[Dave T]

6 minutes ago, The Frying Scotsman said:

One simple lesson they could learn from the Hundred is the merchandising. 

Both the Hundred and the RLWC are partnered with New Era hats for example.

However if we look at the difference in quality of offering, the difference is huge.

Rugby League:

https://shop.rlwc2021.com/collections/new-era 

versus Cricket: 

https://www.neweracap.co.uk/en-gb/sports/the-hundred/

Same brand... but the RLWC offering looks incredibly poor quality and badly thought out compared to the Hundred, despite both competitions running for a similar period of time. The Hundred will doubtless have a new range in place for next year. The RLWC range looks just like something you would associate with a very "small time" event, and it does not even appear on the New Era website - it is only sold via the RLWC store. 

Hmm, I think you are being overly critical there. The RLWC caps are the 9forty caps, which are the same as one of the offerings on the Hundred site, so the quality is the same.

You may not like the branding, but that is the RLWC branding, it is a personal preference.

Warrington Wolves have a selection of 6 different new era hats on their website.

[phiggins]

19 minutes ago, iffleyox said:

It is, but putting it in high summer has forced first class cricket to the margins (April/Sept) which over time is going to cock up the test team. And forced the Royal London to become basically a second XI competition, so God knows what impact that's going to have on the national team too. 

Loss of our three best batsmen to the Hundred nearly torpedoed Worcestershire in the one day comp at the weekend - it was only a rear guard by Leach that saw us win.

Essentially it's causing problems for clubs left right and centre. Actually, it's more specific than that. The test ground sides are laughing because they're getting cricket played. The basket case sides are ok because they're sailing on regardless and unaffected with the cash in their pocket. It's the Somersets and Worcestershires who are good sides without test grounds that are losing their players to the franchises.

Essentially it's a nice bit of divide and rule - to explain in RFL terms, where the SL, Champ and L1 clubs are the (more numerous) equivalent of the 18 first class counties, the Hundred is great if you're in SL or L1, and a nightmare if you're in the Championship. 

First class cricket has been forced to the margins for a number of years now though. And if the Hundred wasn't being played, I'd say every county would rather be playing t20 cricket over County Championship games during peak period because it brings the crowds in that first class cricket doesn't.

I don't know what, if anything the ECB have done to compensate counties that provide players to the hundred, or to just make the concept more palatable to counties. I hope there's something.

But on the whole, I think this competition is a higher standard than any 18 team county comp, and will be a good thing for the likes of Banton, Lammomby etc... that have come through those counties. Will also provide an opportunity for some youngsters in the RL cup.

[Smudger06]

18 hours ago, gingerjon said:

The ECB had spent around £40m - this was publicly stated - on The Hundred by this time last year.

Yeah there was a full breakdown of the budget, I found it interesting. 

[The Frying Scotsman]

1 minute ago, Dave T said:

Hmm, I think you are being overly critical there. The RLWC caps are the 9forty caps, which are the same as one of the offerings on the Hundred site, so the quality is the same.

You may not like the branding, but that is the RLWC branding, it is a personal preference

It isn't. Nowhere near it.

Hundred stuff is all bespoke, so embroidered, official logos, and a full range of team colours.

RLWC is patches sewn on to generic 9forty caps, all in black as opposed to team colours, and none of the logos are the official team logos! 

Overall, the cricket offer is far better than the Rugby League one. 

[gingerjon]

11 minutes ago, phiggins said:

I'm not sure comparing 2019 blast attendances with 2021 Hundred attendances is particularly valid though, for a couple of reasons. First, the '19 Blast had a massive boost in attendances, thanks to the World Cup win, while sport in 2021 is recovering from the pandemic. People have lost jobs, and some are still cautious about going into crowds.

Which is balanced by the phenomenal amount of freebies, publicity and cheap tickets available for The Hundred.

[Dave T]

4 minutes ago, The Frying Scotsman said:

It isn't. Nowhere near it.

Hundred stuff is all bespoke, so embroidered, official logos, and a full range of team colours.

RLWC is patches sewn on to generic 9forty caps, all in black as opposed to team colours, and none of the logos are the official team logos! 

Overall, the cricket offer is far better than the Rugby League one. 

ah ok, I see what you mean. 

[Smudger06]

17 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

They have other countries who want to play them , we don't , well none that are any good 

Crux of the matter. 

I suppose at some point we are gonna have to make them good enough though, by playing games against them. Even though the RFL isn't gonna make money by staging these games, or probably not even break even. 

[Tommygilf]

1 minute ago, Smudger06 said:

Crux of the matter. 

I suppose at some point we are gonna have to make them good enough though, by playing games against them. Even though the RFL isn't gonna make money by staging these games, or probably not even break even. 

Play them in their own nations they might, particularly France.

Scotland were beating us at half time the last (and only) time we played them. When can we say that about us and the Aussies?

Ireland could have a decent team if they played proper internationals more regularly. The same could be said for most teams.

The best thing about Oz and NZ pulling out of the world cup is that it will force the RFL to see that the Kangaroos and Kiwis aren't the only viable test opponents.

[Tommygilf]

46 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

In cricketing terms it is the prime month of the year with bright evenings, warm days, less chance of rain - and school holidays.

Well they weren't going to play it in February were they?

[gingerjon]

1 minute ago, Tommygilf said:

Well they weren't going to play it in February were they?

Obviously not.

But, on the original original (way back at the very beginning) plans they weren't going to be playing it at county grounds either.

[Smudger06]

There is a bang tidy small stadium just been built within the Circuit of the Americas in Texas, this is the type of venue England could take a successful test v United States. Sell it 5k capacity and its gonna look alrite......the scoreline isn't though......once its a regular thing, the yanks will want to improve and good monet will be thrown at it sooner or later......

[Smudger06]

5 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Play them in their own nations they might, particularly France.

Scotland were beating us at half time the last (and only) time we played them. When can we say that about us and the Aussies?

Ireland could have a decent team if they played proper internationals more regularly. The same could be said for most teams.

The best thing about Oz and NZ pulling out of the world cup is that it will force the RFL to see that the Kangaroos and Kiwis aren't the only viable test opponents.

I do think we have to play them in their own countries for it to work.....

[Tommygilf]

44 minutes ago, iffleyox said:

It is, but putting it in high summer has forced first class cricket to the margins (April/Sept) which over time is going to cock up the test team. And forced the Royal London to become basically a second XI competition, so God knows what impact that's going to have on the national team too. 

Loss of our three best batsmen to the Hundred nearly torpedoed Worcestershire in the one day comp at the weekend - it was only a rear guard by Leach that saw us win.

Essentially it's causing problems for clubs left right and centre. Actually, it's more specific than that. The test ground sides are laughing because they're getting cricket played. The basket case sides are ok because they're sailing on regardless and unaffected with the cash in their pocket. It's the Somersets and Worcestershires who are good sides without test grounds that are losing their players to the franchises.

Essentially it's a nice bit of divide and rule - to explain in RFL terms, where the SL, Champ and L1 clubs are the (more numerous) equivalent of the 18 first class counties, the Hundred is great if you're in SL or L1, and a nightmare if you're in the Championship. 

First class cricket has been on the margins for years, for limited overs games, for Internationals (both in terms of grounds and players being unavailable), cutting to 4 day county championship games. The Hundred is the continuation of a theme - ask any Lancashire fan who went to Yorkshire (Sedbergh) to watch their side play County Championship fixtures in the past few years because X was on at Old Trafford.

The reason it has been pushed to the margins is quite obvious and sensible in a sport that needs to make money and wants a younger audience - most people don't have the time for it. At University I was a Yorkshire member and went to county championship and one day games regularly with my mate. The simple fact was that me and my mate brought down the average age of spectators by 40 plus years and even in a well supported county like Yorkshire the attendances were relatively tiny. People can go to evening games in numbers they can't for 4/5 day regular season county games. County championship is both difficult for people to go to and somewhat a preserve of the purists and the old. This is part of the image the Hundred is trying to break cricket out of. It was telling to me that CC fixtures at Scarborough for example that have "something else" about them, do far better across a broader audience.

Cricket has a limited window it can play domestic fixtures in England, even within that there is an even smaller prime slot in Summer. It's a sport that needs to be picky about when and what it plays. 

Quite clearly, internationals of all formats and t20/Hundred are the priority - for the counties let alone the ECB. Its the main way the sport makes money and gets fans in. Its why the ostensibly odd decision to downgrade the RL Cup but have both the Hundred and the Blast running has been taken. Its not like without the Hundred we'd be seeing loads of county championship fixtures being played.

[Tommygilf]

20 minutes ago, Smudger06 said:

I do think we have to play them in their own countries for it to work.....

Play them over here "on a Wednesday night in Leigh" and it won't work was my point.

[Tommygilf]

23 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Obviously not.

But, on the original original (way back at the very beginning) plans they weren't going to be playing it at county grounds either.

Yeah and then reality hit that we don't have AFL grounds?

[gingerjon]

2 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Yeah and then reality hit that we don't have AFL grounds?

The idea makes sense when aligned with a bringing new people to cricket strategy. It would be more likely to do the latter than playing cricket at the same grounds in the same places where there are already dozens of days of cricket of all stripes every year.

But it would be far too risky and cost more than The Hundred has already.

[iffleyox]

24 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Yeah and then reality hit that we don't have AFL grounds?

I know it's a very different world, but IIRC Sir Geoffrey made his debut at Bramall Lane...

[gingerjon]

Just now, iffleyox said:

I know it's a very different world, but IIRC Sir Geoffrey made his debut at Bramall Lane...

England have played Wales at the Millennium Stadium

[phiggins]

1 hour ago, gingerjon said:

Which is balanced by the phenomenal amount of freebies, publicity and cheap tickets available for The Hundred.

Maybe. And there will be a time after the competition where the ECB will have to measure the costs of the tournament against ticket sales, merchandise income, TV revenues and increased exposure. I see the final has sold out already (well, according to the hundred website anyway), so they will also look to see what trend there is in the attendances as the tournament goes on. With all that, they'll be able to measure success. But, a comparison with the 2019 blast includes too many variables given what has happened in the world since.

Personally, I would've liked to see this sort of tournament structure, using the T20 game format, but not too fussed about the Hundred format. But I think players like Parkinson (x2), Lammomby, Banton, Hartley, Brook etc... will benefit from playing from these games more than they would've done from playing in a normal RL cup comp this month.

[Barley Mow]

44 minutes ago, iffleyox said:

I know it's a very different world, but IIRC Sir Geoffrey made his debut at Bramall Lane...

Bramall Lane in 1973:

[THE RED ROOSTER]

So now let's follow the premise of The Hundred and apply it to Rugby League

Create 8 new franchises in Rugby League - Calder Miners, Hull Trawlermen  Leeds- Bradford Bi planes, Liverpool Scallies, Manchester Unoriginals, French Cockerels, Cumbria Nukes and London-Coventry Leftovers These will play in the Super Franchise League (SFL) a rebrand as Rugby League is so dated....

Have a draft of all existing Super League players and allocate them to each franchise for balance

Clear the month of July of all Rugby League except this even if it means playing 2 games per week for SL Clubs in the other months

Tell moaning fans to stop mithering on about this as its not designed for you or anyone who likes Rugby League though you can watch if you want.. please ...

Divide the game into four quarters, and help with terminology, (i.e. Knock on is drop forward have 4 points for a try by the touchline but six point tries for scores under the sticks, and allow one forward pass per every six tackles and of course a try should now be the more user friendly Touchdown).

Go for diversity by aiming at anyone who has no idea about Rugby league and offering free tickets or familes for a fiver, and hire whoever is doing a gig at the working man's club as the half and full time entertainment (toss for ends could be Luke Gale and Johnny Lomax with an Elvis Impersonator on stage)

Get Sky and the BBC's high priests of hyperbole to praise "the greatest game of Rugby League / Try I have ever seen in my life" each week and do a funky promo (Brian Carney dancing with Jenna Brooks)

And spend all of the RFL's cash reserves promoting this "entertainment".  Rugby League for those who do not like Rugby League.

Problem solved for the game no more "where do we go from here" threads on TRL.  The SFL may in some peoples minds achieve SFA but stop being a miserable naysayer on this board ......

[GUBRATS]

7 hours ago, iffleyox said:

It is, but putting it in high summer has forced first class cricket to the margins (April/Sept) which over time is going to cock up the test team. And forced the Royal London to become basically a second XI competition, so God knows what impact that's going to have on the national team too. 

Loss of our three best batsmen to the Hundred nearly torpedoed Worcestershire in the one day comp at the weekend - it was only a rear guard by Leach that saw us win.

Essentially it's causing problems for clubs left right and centre. Actually, it's more specific than that. The test ground sides are laughing because they're getting cricket played. The basket case sides are ok because they're sailing on regardless and unaffected with the cash in their pocket. It's the Somersets and Worcestershires who are good sides without test grounds that are losing their players to the franchises.

Essentially it's a nice bit of divide and rule - to explain in RFL terms, where the SL, Champ and L1 clubs are the (more numerous) equivalent of the 18 first class counties, the Hundred is great if you're in SL or L1, and a nightmare if you're in the Championship. 

Everybody wants a geographically extended growing SL , as long as they're part of it 

[GUBRATS]

7 hours ago, Smudger06 said:

Crux of the matter. 

I suppose at some point we are gonna have to make them good enough though, by playing games against them. Even though the RFL isn't gonna make money by staging these games, or probably not even break even. 

Rock and a hard thing , to make money you need a competitive International product , to create a competitive  International product you need a lot of money , and considerable time , do we have either ?