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So What's The Plan From Here?


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45 minutes ago, steve oates said:

Through coverage on the BBC especially Challenge cup games and internationals, in which the sporting public get to see the games stars play. The .owns have nothing to do with it 

On the contrary when the great majority of the public have never even heard of those towns and most of the minority who have heard of them look down on them because they see them as rundown, downmarket places which don't fit their idea of places where big time pro sport is played, the towns have a lot to do with it.  In those circumstances they're an obstacle to any RL players becoming household names.

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2 hours ago, steve oates said:

Through coverage on the BBC especially Challenge cup games and internationals, in which the sporting public get to see the games stars play. The .owns have nothing to do with it 

The BBC's challenge cup final this year was a complete triumph for the game. The best yet.

With the same commentary team, on a lovely new ground (LSV or Wimbledon say?) on a glorious sunny day, England/Wales v USA (or Jamaica or France or etc. etc) would do the game a power of good.

Let's get it on.

I'd like to see John Dutton engaged as the co-ordinator/project manager for the establishment of a regular 4/5/6 nations tournament in the NH if he's not completely heartbroken over the disgraceful betrayal by the Australians this week.

His handling of the World Cup has been exemplary. 

 

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3 minutes ago, fighting irish said:

The BBC's challenge cup final this year was a complete triumph for the game. The best yet.

With the same commentary team, on a lovely new ground (LSV or Wimbledon say?) on a glorious sunny day, England/Wales v USA (or Jamaica or France or etc. etc) would do the game a power of good.

Let's get it on.

I'd like to see John Dutton engaged as the co-ordinator/project manager for the establishment of a regular 4/5/6 nations tournament in the NH if he's not completely heartbroken over the disgraceful betrayal by the Australians this week.

His handling of the World Cup has been exemplary. 

 

Don't suggest the LSV , RL fans go everywhere on the train 

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3 hours ago, Big Picture said:

Just how to you expect RL players to become household names if they play in smallish, rundown, economically disadvantaged towns?  You'll never get the public at large to bother with them on that basis.

Adam Peaty is from Uttoxeter. He's more famous than any RL player in England right now. 

Geography is not our problem. Telling our story is the problem. 

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I'd like to see a bit more innovation in terms of how the game is presented both in the ground and on TV. BBC's sports videos often have plays of the week for the NFL or baseball - there's never anything like this even produced by the Super League's own youtube channel. Channel 4 revolutionised cricket coverage when they took it on in the late 90s. I'd love to see something similar for RL, because the production hasn't changed a whole lot since Super League began 25 years ago. For example, every team uses GPS data to track how hard the players are working - why can't the TV production company use this data to create a bit more excitement for the viewers by highlighting how big some of the hits are in terms of G forces, how fast the players are running? Could they calculate air time for spectacular try finishes etc? There's constant talk about creating star players, but can we do a bit more with the presentation to help highlight great skills/contributions? The current stats are interesting enough, but they're the same ones that they've been using for 25 years. They need to jazz it up a bit IMO. 

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20 minutes ago, Hela Wigmen said:

Throw the six figure salary given to Elstone at a marketing and PR company who take charge of all Super League clubs marketing and PR and take charge of all major events and finals. 

 

Why don't the clubs just employ more capable people? 

Different clubs will have different target audiences and marketing priorities - they should own their own promotion. 

The clubs are the primary point of sale for the sport. We don't (or shouldn't) need a "guru" running it centrally because a) we should be holding the clubs to better standards on that front and b) getting a "guru" is pointless if you don't know the audience you want to attract and the objective from your marketing. 

Asking someone to come in and "run the CC Final" will get you a lot of short term advertising for the CC Final, but it will achieve nothing in the longer term - the CC Finals problems aren't problems you can advertise your way out of. 

 

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6 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

Not having internationals is the problem. National games get national coverage and mean special moments in these games are amplified significantly. 

More internationals would help, but we don't have them so the sport has to work with what it's got. Blaming the lack of internationals is finding an excuse. 

We have so many stories to tell. We have so much amazing content. The sport just sucks at capturing and telling them and no amount of internationals changes that fact.

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6 minutes ago, whatmichaelsays said:

Why don't the clubs just employ more capable people? 

Different clubs will have different target audiences and marketing priorities - they should own their own promotion. 

The clubs are the primary point of sale for the sport. We don't (or shouldn't) need a "guru" running it centrally because a) we should be holding the clubs to better standards on that front and b) getting a "guru" is pointless if you don't know the audience you want to attract and the objective from your marketing. 

Asking someone to come in and "run the CC Final" will get you a lot of short term advertising for the CC Final, but it will achieve nothing in the longer term - the CC Finals problems aren't problems you can advertise your way out of. 

 

Because the clubs are, largely, potless themselves so stuff like marketing and PR goes by the wayside and the game gets next to no coverage beyond the regional Evening Newspapers. 

Marketing and PR of the 2013 and 2021 (so far) World Cups has projected Rugby League into the eyes, ears and hands of so many more people than any Super League club can. It’s exactly what the game needs. 

Competent marketeers and PR professionals know that one size does not fit all and there are different needs and desires for each project or in our case, each club or event. 

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3 hours ago, steve oates said:

England played New zealand in the USA in a first class International to promote a possible world cup there IIRC, the low interest and attention that received sadly saw the pulling of the world cup in the USA.  Been there, done that, didn't work even with the Kiwi's on show.

The proposed WC in NA was pulled due to it being proposed and run by the same people that organised the Denver test (a game the NRL tried their hardest to scupper) and those people had not been forthcoming with money promised to the RFL and NZRL for taking part in the game long after the game had happened. The IRL (or RLIF as it was then called) did not support the bid as a consequence. It was that which led to the 2025 WC being taken from that group and thus from NA.

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10 minutes ago, whatmichaelsays said:

More internationals would help, but we don't have them so the sport has to work with what it's got. Blaming the lack of internationals is finding an excuse. 

I disagree. Internationals resonate far more with the wider population that the club game does.

12 minutes ago, whatmichaelsays said:

We have so many stories to tell. We have so much amazing content. The sport just sucks at capturing and telling them and no amount of internationals changes that fact.

I agree that the sport does 'suck' at telling our stories, but ultimately internationals are likely to reach a far wider audience to hear these stories than the club game. It's the same with every other sport in this country. Even soccer.

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7 minutes ago, Hela Wigmen said:

Because the clubs are, largely, potless themselves so stuff like marketing and PR goes by the wayside and the game gets next to no coverage beyond the regional Evening Newspapers. 

Marketing and PR of the 2013 and 2021 (so far) World Cups has projected Rugby League into the eyes, ears and hands of so many more people than any Super League club can. It’s exactly what the game needs. 

Competent marketeers and PR professionals know that one size does not fit all and there are different needs and desires for each project or in our case, each club or event. 

So we're dividing up a marketing and PR function to replace for 12 SL clubs, all with their own audiences and priority markets, as well as the central marketing of SL, RFL and their respective events? Either this is going to be a big function, or it's going to be spread very thinly. 

The clubs have no issue finding the funds for another NRL dropout as they become available - isn't the issue simply one of not having the right priorities. 

If you're doing marketing and advertising right, it isn't a cost centre. 

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6 minutes ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

I disagree. Internationals resonate far more with the wider population that the club game does.

I agree that the sport does 'suck' at telling our stories, but ultimately internationals are likely to reach a far wider audience to hear these stories than the club game. It's the same with every other sport in this country. Even soccer.

But we don't have an international calendar at the moment  I get that they are beneficial, but we don't have one, so what do we do? Shrug our shoulders and say "there's nothing we can do"? Or does the sport think creatively and work with what it does have?

No amount of wishing makes the Australians and Kiwis more enthusiastic about playing England more often - we can't wait around for that to change. 

So the "problem" isn't internationals. The "problem" is that the sport isn't doing enough with the assets it does have. 

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3 hours ago, Big Picture said:

Just how to you expect RL players to become household names if they play in smallish, rundown, economically disadvantaged towns?  You'll never get the public at large to bother with them on that basis.

If that is the case, why aren't players from Leeds, Hull and the other bigger places with RL Clubs already household names?

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36 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

For me everything is around internationals. If players for other nations know they are going to get regular games against England it will transform the seriousness and profile of these European tournaments. 

I agree that we need lots of international fixtures for the NH nations which can then drive the development of RL in those countries. Internationals on their own isn't enough imo

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5 minutes ago, whatmichaelsays said:

But we don't have an international calendar at the moment  I get that they are beneficial, but we don't have one, so what do we do? Shrug our shoulders and say "there's nothing we can do"? Or does the sport think creatively and work with what it does have?

No amount of wishing makes the Australians and Kiwis more enthusiastic about playing England more often - we can't wait around for that to change. 

So the "problem" isn't internationals. The "problem" is that the sport isn't doing enough with the assets it does have. 

I really enjoy reading your posts because I do think that they often really hit on serious problems within RL. And I agree that the sport doesn't do anywhere near enough with the assets it has. That said, I still think any cut-through will have a limited ceiling unless we can create more assets in the form of internationals.

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Just now, Gooleboy said:

If that is the case, why aren't players from Leeds, Hull and the other bigger places with RL Clubs already household names?

Because one is among those those towns which don't rate with the public at large and the other might be too, and their teams play in a league full of other teams from such towns.  Times have changed since the days "When Ellery Was King" as Tony Collins called the podcast of his first interview with Sean McGuire; multinational competitions like the Champions League, Europa League and Heineken Cup have become standard fare and that's undoubtedly raised the bar re what's needed to make a good impression on that public.

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14 minutes ago, whatmichaelsays said:

So we're dividing up a marketing and PR function to replace for 12 SL clubs, all with their own audiences and priority markets, as well as the central marketing of SL, RFL and their respective events? Either this is going to be a big function, or it's going to be spread very thinly. 

The clubs have no issue finding the funds for another NRL dropout as they become available - isn't the issue simply one of not having the right priorities. 

If you're doing marketing and advertising right, it isn't a cost centre. 

We paid Elstone £400,000 as a sport per year. He was your metaphorical 30-something Australian forward who was knackered. That could and should have been utilised elsewhere. Marketing and PR the obvious area. The game’s profile, general perception and standing is non-existent, as highlighted by people in the game and out of the game. 

Clubs aren’t doing marketing right. Some are doing next to nothing. You’ve said it yourself. We have the assets. We don’t use them at all. 

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Rugby League is just a frustrating sport to support.

From top to the bottom its run by the wrong kind of people, who are generally running their little corner for selfish reasons. 

The game needs a Root and Branch review, followed by action. There are many ways the sport could go, many ways we could both improve the product and improve the match day experience. But watching SL now is less entertaining and less of a spectacle than it was 10 years ago. There is no drive in the sport, not from the clubs, not from the SL and not from the RFL.

The SL is littered with clubs that do nothing for the sport, that are a drain on its finances and make it more difficult to market to sponsors and broadcasters. 

Close the Shop, Set targets for playing in SL based on Minimum support levels, Full grade 1 academy as a minimum. Good facilities. you dont make the grade, you dont play SL. You are a Champ Club and you have worked to attain the above minimum standards. Welcome to the top table, dont worry about relegation, Work to build your club. Dont panic buy a squad, build on what you have and grow.  Take the long term view. 

 

This Year

Leigh Out, Toulouse IN

Warnings For

Huddersfield ( crowds )

Wakefield ( crowds, Facilities )

Salford ( Crowds, Facilities, Academy )

 

If a club in the Championship attained the required level of support, with the right facilities and a commitment to run a grade 1 academy. Goodbye Salford Hello new team.

Rinse and repeat until you have 12 clubs that meet the criteria, no matter how long it takes. Stop messing about and worrying about upsetting Bob from a Village in Yorkshire/Lancashire who's grandad used to tell him stories of ( insert team name here ) being good once upon a time. 

Or do something completely different, But get a strategy and a focus and push it. no constant moving of goalposts and pandering to individual clubs. 

 

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26 minutes ago, Hela Wigmen said:

We paid Elstone £400,000 as a sport per year. He was your metaphorical 30-something Australian forward who was knackered. That could and should have been utilised elsewhere. Marketing and PR the obvious area. The game’s profile, general perception and standing is non-existent, as highlighted by people in the game and out of the game. 

Clubs aren’t doing marketing right. Some are doing next to nothing. You’ve said it yourself. We have the assets. We don’t use them at all. 

£400k doesn't touch the sides of what you're proposing when you consider the manpower and media and creative budgets needed for a long term strategy. Then you have the issue that some clubs just won't go with this. Warrington will argue that they were doing fine pre-pandemic and have bigger ambitions than a 1/13th share of a centralised team will give them, whilst people like Hetherington, a firm believer in clubs doing their own thing and with his priorities very much focused on the corporate market, isn't going to back it either.

What other businesses expect someone else to do their marketing for them?

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1 hour ago, whatmichaelsays said:

Why don't the clubs just employ more capable people? 

Different clubs will have different target audiences and marketing priorities - they should own their own promotion. 

The clubs are the primary point of sale for the sport. We don't (or shouldn't) need a "guru" running it centrally because a) we should be holding the clubs to better standards on that front and b) getting a "guru" is pointless if you don't know the audience you want to attract and the objective from your marketing. 

Asking someone to come in and "run the CC Final" will get you a lot of short term advertising for the CC Final, but it will achieve nothing in the longer term - the CC Finals problems aren't problems you can advertise your way out of. 

 

I agree , the top tier clubs should be sorting all that themselves , however the lower tiers IMO would benefit from a more centralised approach , essentially having a group of ' marketeers ' working at each club for say one home game a month , sharing ideas used at other clubs , this is something I suggested a decade ago when we had licencing 

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1 hour ago, tonyvikinggee said:

Rugby League is just a frustrating sport to support.

From top to the bottom its run by the wrong kind of people, who are generally running their little corner for selfish reasons. 

The game needs a Root and Branch review, followed by action. There are many ways the sport could go, many ways we could both improve the product and improve the match day experience. But watching SL now is less entertaining and less of a spectacle than it was 10 years ago. There is no drive in the sport, not from the clubs, not from the SL and not from the RFL.

The SL is littered with clubs that do nothing for the sport, that are a drain on its finances and make it more difficult to market to sponsors and broadcasters. 

Close the Shop, Set targets for playing in SL based on Minimum support levels, Full grade 1 academy as a minimum. Good facilities. you dont make the grade, you dont play SL. You are a Champ Club and you have worked to attain the above minimum standards. Welcome to the top table, dont worry about relegation, Work to build your club. Dont panic buy a squad, build on what you have and grow.  Take the long term view. 

 

This Year

Leigh Out, Toulouse IN

Warnings For

Huddersfield ( crowds )

Wakefield ( crowds, Facilities )

Salford ( Crowds, Facilities, Academy )

 

If a club in the Championship attained the required level of support, with the right facilities and a commitment to run a grade 1 academy. Goodbye Salford Hello new team.

Rinse and repeat until you have 12 clubs that meet the criteria, no matter how long it takes. Stop messing about and worrying about upsetting Bob from a Village in Yorkshire/Lancashire who's grandad used to tell him stories of ( insert team name here ) being good once upon a time. 

Or do something completely different, But get a strategy and a focus and push it. no constant moving of goalposts and pandering to individual clubs. 

 

A ' commitment ' to run an academy ? 😂

These Lowe tier clubs you want to reach SL standard ? , How do you suggest they achieve it ? 

Minimum support levels ? 

Do you include location in this closed shop ? 

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1 hour ago, whatmichaelsays said:

£400k doesn't touch the sides of what you're proposing when you consider the manpower and media and creative budgets needed for a long term strategy. Then you have the issue that some clubs just won't go with this. Warrington will argue that they were doing fine pre-pandemic and have bigger ambitions than a 1/13th share of a centralised team will give them, whilst people like Hetherington, a firm believer in clubs doing their own thing and with his priorities very much focused on the corporate market, isn't going to back it either.

What other businesses expect someone else to do their marketing for them?

Correct , the lower tier clubs though probably need something like that 

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20 minutes ago, Smudger06 said:

Get rid of Super League. 

What would you propose instead, Smudger?

I suppose you would prefer to see a return to the old county leagues? With Leeds Rhinos running in 114-0 victories against the likes of Hunslet and Dewsbury. Out of shape part timers who have been working on a roof all day, training two nights a week... Taking on professionals and ex NRL internationals. 

👍🏽

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