Chrispmartha Posted July 28, 2021 Share Posted July 28, 2021 It does feel like we are coming to a pivotal moment in the sport, which is one of the reasons I'm absolutely raging about the ARLC and NZRL and what they’ve done, however I actually think if the world cup goes ahead showing we have other nations that can step in could actually be a positive if marketed correctly. I think there’s a good opportunity here to have a bit of a reset for next season. In an ideal world id scrap relegation and make SL a 14 team competition (Toulouse and AN other) as I say may not be possible but that’s an ideal world. no P&R for 2 years and existing clubs like Wakefield and Castleford need to sort their stadiums out otherwise a SL place would be in doubt. Magic scrapped but have a 9s tournament instead, it could even be with different sides made up if regional teams where both Mens and Women’s teams play and both results count towards that sides points in the tournament (if that makes sense) 8 year rolling international plan England to play at least once throughout the year with a clear international weekend set in stone with no SL games on at the same time, the international weekend would have all the home nations playing and France and Jamaica. couple of points on Marketing the game… Market our players in some respects they are our biggest asset, get them on TV (not just sports programmes) this is essential IMO Dont shy away from our history, some people almost seem embarrassed about our roots and history, it’s an amazing story and shows the grit and resilience of the sport. but don’t let our history stop us expanding we have always been an inclusive sport expand on that. We need more scouts/school programs across the whole country. Id even be open to a competition name change snd new branding at this point but not 100% sure on this one, would need to give it more thought. what we do have (despite the moaning) is a fantastic product at every level of the sport, id like to see the people involved be s bit more positive, stop the constant ref bashing for a start and Im including the players going on twitter moaning about refs, it’s not a good look! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrispmartha Posted July 28, 2021 Share Posted July 28, 2021 Just to add, we meed all games in SL to have a VR and to be fully televised wether thats an extensive highlights show or an online payment thing where all games are available to buy to watch - an expansion on Our League maybe the sport is simply hidden from view from its fans let alone casual sports fans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave T Posted July 28, 2021 Share Posted July 28, 2021 14 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said: Just to add, we meed all games in SL to have a VR and to be fully televised wether thats an extensive highlights show or an online payment thing where all games are available to buy to watch - an expansion on Our League maybe the sport is simply hidden from view from its fans let alone casual sports fans Next season all games will be recorded and likely available on a range of platforms as part of the new deal. Can't recall if they said vr's at all games or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeordieSaint Posted July 28, 2021 Share Posted July 28, 2021 10 hours ago, Tommygilf said: Full military history nerd alert (I don't know if you listen to we have ways), but that is a very good point. Most super league clubs, and RL as a whole, are pretty capable on what would be the "operational level". They generally get by each year. Given the resources available, they do ok. In fact, Wakey making it through each season is a triumph of sorts. It also includes things like shot clocks, reduced interchanges, and an about turn on Liverpool to go back to Newcastle for magic. On the equivalent of the "strategic level" however, the entire sport seems witless 90% of the time. It is at this level where we feel the pinch and long term problems that are harder to combat emerge. Declining youth engagement, a general retreat of the game inwards, England playing only a handful of home games (if any games) in the space between 2 world cup cycles, 9s still not being a Commonwealth sport, let alone in the Olympics, declining top end crowds at club level, lower end brand involvement across the sport: these are just some of the problems a failure (or indeed an unwillingness) of the sport and key stakeholders to work effectively and continuously on the Strategic Level has left us with. Undoubtedly the operational/tactical level is important, Covid and the response has shown that. But Covid has also exacerbated and/or laid bare the failings to deal with big issues. In history an equivalent term would be "the audit of war" - and right now RLs audit is saying "must improve rapidly". Massive nerd alert... Spot on though. Too much ostrich-like behaviour and squabbling over diminshing resource; rather than getting after the real issues and opportunities the game faces (on both sides of the globe). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrispmartha Posted July 28, 2021 Share Posted July 28, 2021 25 minutes ago, Dave T said: Next season all games will be recorded and likely available on a range of platforms as part of the new deal. Can't recall if they said vr's at all games or not. This is a good move, I think I did read that VR will be at every game, ive been calling for this for years, it all looks a bit amateur if they aren't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerjon Posted July 28, 2021 Share Posted July 28, 2021 8 hours ago, The Frying Scotsman said: In answer to the original question: "Are you worried about attendances?" the answer is: Yes, very worried. The game is clearly closing broadcast revenue, which is the lifeblood of any professional sports League. As such, it desperately has to make it up with matchday income, which is primarily going to come from paying spectators, and also from these supporters' additional game day spend. I honestly think the game is in real trouble in England and has to react quickly. The stereotypical Rugby League fan is a dying breed, and younger fans have huge amounts of competition for their £. I really feel that the game needs a dramatic shift in image on order to pull in some younger fans. It is seen as some kind of regional curiosity (by those who even know it exists) and is perceived as anything but aspirational. I am no marketing expert, but perhaps a campaign pitching the SuperLeague as an affordable alternative to English football (which is extremely expensive) could be one approach to take. The competition for people's leisure time and cash that exists these days means that once fans are gone, they are unlikely to return without an incentive. If we're worried about attendances *right now* - and I think we should be - then the immediate strategy has to be to get people who were going to games in 2019 (and therefore who we already know) to come back. The rest is absolutely essential too but we have to prioritise getting people through the gates now for the games that are happening now. Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leyther_Matt Posted July 28, 2021 Share Posted July 28, 2021 35 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said: This is a good move, I think I did read that VR will be at every game, ive been calling for this for years, it all looks a bit amateur if they aren't. With the ever-growing frustration towards VAR in football, I'd actually go the other way and make a point of stepping away completely from video referees and painting ourselves as a more 'authentic' sport that can be lived in the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave T Posted July 28, 2021 Share Posted July 28, 2021 31 minutes ago, gingerjon said: If we're worried about attendances *right now* - and I think we should be - then the immediate strategy has to be to get people who were going to games in 2019 (and therefore who we already know) to come back. The rest is absolutely essential too but we have to prioritise getting people through the gates now for the games that are happening now. Where it is quite a challenge is spending a fair bit of money on trying to get these people back, and then the games being cancelled. We really need to get a grip of the cancellations and some of it will resolve itself. I know Wire have made a fair bit of effort on social media for tonight's game (probably those low hanging fruit you refer to) - will be interesting to see what that returns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave T Posted July 28, 2021 Share Posted July 28, 2021 7 minutes ago, Leyther_Matt said: With the ever-growing frustration towards VAR in football, I'd actually go the other way and make a point of stepping away completely from video referees and painting ourselves as a more 'authentic' sport that can be lived in the moment. There may be something in this. If we are going for a faster slicker game, maybe this could be a sensible move. The problem then is we get to a place where mistakes can be costly and the refs become the huge focus. I've always been OK with the VR, but it does take something away from the game, and I would support your approach now tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrispmartha Posted July 28, 2021 Share Posted July 28, 2021 1 hour ago, Leyther_Matt said: With the ever-growing frustration towards VAR in football, I'd actually go the other way and make a point of stepping away completely from video referees and painting ourselves as a more 'authentic' sport that can be lived in the moment. Disagree, we should be shouting how we do it properly. The refs get enough stick as it is imagine the uproar if a decision in an important game is decided by an unsighted referee, as I say don't be shy about shouting about what we are good at and in general the VR is one of them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leyther_Matt Posted July 28, 2021 Share Posted July 28, 2021 49 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said: Disagree, we should be shouting how we do it properly. The refs get enough stick as it is imagine the uproar if a decision in an important game is decided by an unsighted referee, as I say don't be shy about shouting about what we are good at and in general the VR is one of them But is that a consequence of having so many finicky rules and, in particular, Sky over analysing these things because - in true RL fashion - they’re trying to look for the negative?* Even pre-pandemic, football fans at the top level were lamenting the loss of the “moment” when the ball hits the back of the net and, let’s be honest, we lost that years ago (for TV games, at least) with the inevitability of going to the screen. It takes years of practice in football to learn the skill of taking a cursory glance towards the linesman as the ball hits the net, and it was always something similar in RL in terms of knowing the position of the touch judge and whether a try was to be awarded rather than waiting an age as replays are slowed down to the nth degree. Players don’t get a chance to replay their mistakes so let’s give some control - and even a bit of faith - back to the referees and restore that ‘moment’ for the fans. In a game that is becoming so restrictively over sanitised and monotonous, it would be nice to restore things back to human nature. * Yes I’m fully aware of the irony of being negative about the negatives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The storm Posted July 28, 2021 Share Posted July 28, 2021 On 26/07/2021 at 08:39, Tommygilf said: 5.5k at Wigan v Wakefield 10.5k at Leeds v Salford No matter how you spin it this isn't the packed out return to attendances the sport was looking for. The real question that needs answering quickly is why? Is it covid related attendance hesitancy? Possibly for some, but I don't know if anyone else went out this weekend but it certainly didn't seem quiet in the city centre I was in. If there is hesitancy, then it is impacting RL fan demographies more acutely - that they are quite narrow and leaves the sport vulnerable to this sort of acute problem is another issue. More worryingly, is it that there is just too much better competition for people's money? The sport has been struggling for relevance before Covid, and has hardly taken many actions to rectify that since. Its also been highly reliant on Season Ticket attendees, whose numbers presumably have been dented as a result of Covid. Whilst many have struggled through Covid, lots have saved money too. There is clearly an appetite for leisure and entertainment. But perhaps in such a congested market RL isn't cutting through - and doesn't have the resources to do so. 17 or so months away from the grounds, out of the habit, with plenty of problems leaving fans disillusioned and a hell of a lot of competition for people's time and money - its not the ideal environment. Perhaps it will get better... A lot of people are skint People have been making ends meet big time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrispmartha Posted July 28, 2021 Share Posted July 28, 2021 12 minutes ago, Leyther_Matt said: But is that a consequence of having so many finicky rules and, in particular, Sky over analysing these things because - in true RL fashion - they’re trying to look for the negative?* Even pre-pandemic, football fans at the top level were lamenting the loss of the “moment” when the ball hits the back of the net and, let’s be honest, we lost that years ago (for TV games, at least) with the inevitability of going to the screen. It takes years of practice in football to learn the skill of taking a cursory glance towards the linesman as the ball hits the net, and it was always something similar in RL in terms of knowing the position of the touch judge and whether a try was to be awarded rather than waiting an age as replays are slowed down to the nth degree. Players don’t get a chance to replay their mistakes so let’s give some control - and even a bit of faith - back to the referees and restore that ‘moment’ for the fans. In a game that is becoming so restrictively over sanitised and monotonous, it would be nice to restore things back to human nature. * Yes I’m fully aware of the irony of being negative about the negatives The problem is here is we have had VR and were one of the first sports to implement it, I see your point but to me there's no going back now as the first time a referee makes a mistake there will be absolute hell on and would bring far more negativity than having a VR (IMO) Having said that to be honest I don't think the VR is an issue either way or certainly not one that is high up on the agenda of things to change/fix other than having them at all games that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leyther_Matt Posted July 28, 2021 Share Posted July 28, 2021 9 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said: The problem is here is we have had VR and were one of the first sports to implement it, I see your point but to me there's no going back now as the first time a referee makes a mistake there will be absolute hell on and would bring far more negativity than having a VR (IMO) Having said that to be honest I don't think the VR is an issue either way or certainly not one that is high up on the agenda of things to change/fix other than having them at all games that is. It's probably as part of a greater frustration with the rules interpretation that is another topic in itself as a means of making the game more attractive. I think the speed of video ref decisions has improved since the implementation of ref's call, but a move nearer to the NRL model would certainly be a positive I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dallas Mead Posted July 28, 2021 Share Posted July 28, 2021 3 hours ago, The storm said: A lot of people are skint People have been making ends meet big time Nonsense, we’re talking about the cheapest (and ironically best) sport in the world here. All I hear is people moaning about paying £25 for a ticket, try premier league football where it’s at least DOUBLE that. As a sport we need to engage a newer demographic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATLANTISMAN Posted July 28, 2021 Share Posted July 28, 2021 3 hours ago, The storm said: A lot of people are skint People have been making ends meet big time I think that you have hit the nail on the head here, that in certain run down areas where rugby league is played covid has had a massive effect on peoples incomes. Other areas it has had the complete opposite effect ,people that have stopped commuting and worked from home have saved thousands over the last 18 months (This is certainly the case in and around London) and now they are starting to spend it. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leyther_Matt Posted July 28, 2021 Share Posted July 28, 2021 47 minutes ago, Dallas Mead said: Nonsense, we’re talking about the cheapest (and ironically best) sport in the world here. All I hear is people moaning about paying £25 for a ticket, try premier league football where it’s at least DOUBLE that. As a sport we need to engage a newer demographic. Premier League football aren't asking the same people to buy tickets week after week though. A more valid comparison (regrettably or otherwise) might be League One football where my family and I (partner and teenage son) pay £23 per game (total, not each!) for our season tickets at Bolton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerjon Posted July 28, 2021 Share Posted July 28, 2021 1 hour ago, Leyther_Matt said: Premier League football aren't asking the same people to buy tickets week after week though. A more valid comparison (regrettably or otherwise) might be League One football where my family and I (partner and teenage son) pay £23 per game (total, not each!) for our season tickets at Bolton. Bolton Wanderers matchday adult prices start at £25 (season tickets starting at £289 for the year). Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUBRATS Posted July 28, 2021 Share Posted July 28, 2021 1 hour ago, Leyther_Matt said: Premier League football aren't asking the same people to buy tickets week after week though. A more valid comparison (regrettably or otherwise) might be League One football where my family and I (partner and teenage son) pay £23 per game (total, not each!) for our season tickets at Bolton. Still too expensive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted July 28, 2021 Share Posted July 28, 2021 16 minutes ago, gingerjon said: Bolton Wanderers matchday adult prices start at £25 (season tickets starting at £289 for the year). To be fair, you'd have to pay me more than £25 to watch a soccer match. "We'll sell you a seat .... but you'll only need the edge of it!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hela Wigmen Posted July 28, 2021 Share Posted July 28, 2021 Painting ourselves as better than football because we’re unnecessarily doing away/reducing the use of a video ref is the most Rugby League thing I’ve heard for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommygilf Posted July 28, 2021 Author Share Posted July 28, 2021 6 hours ago, Chrispmartha said: Disagree, we should be shouting how we do it properly. The refs get enough stick as it is imagine the uproar if a decision in an important game is decided by an unsighted referee, as I say don't be shy about shouting about what we are good at and in general the VR is one of them Indeed, one of the reasons football's version has been so derided is because they appear to have taken sod intelligence all from any other sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommygilf Posted July 28, 2021 Author Share Posted July 28, 2021 5 hours ago, The storm said: A lot of people are skint People have been making ends meet big time Some people are, and they always have been, so even then that's a desperately poor reason for rubbish attendances at some games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommygilf Posted July 28, 2021 Author Share Posted July 28, 2021 9 hours ago, GeordieSaint said: Massive nerd alert... Spot on though. Too much ostrich-like behaviour and squabbling over diminshing resource; rather than getting after the real issues and opportunities the game faces (on both sides of the globe). It is a really good podcast!! The failure to get 9s into the Commonwealth games, let alone the Olympics, is a peak example of our failure in strategy. Union by contrast quite openly has gone for 7s in the Olympics as it is associated with funding and government backing - ironically 2 things we lack (and therefore should be more incentivised by) than them! We're bald men arguing over a comb whilst nobody is thinking of getting a hair transplant... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meast Posted July 28, 2021 Share Posted July 28, 2021 Only my opinion and not based on anything other than what I think,but I would say it's probably a factor of lots of things, however, I think the pandemic has just exacerbated these issues. Firstly, I'd suggest attendances were already on the slide across the board, I compile away crowd figures for Huddersfield and those crowd figures have generally gone down year by year, we are now seeing the majority of away crowds into the hundreds now rather than thousands, which used to be the norm. Secondly, people were slowly becoming less interested in the game as a whole, the product on the pitch, the calamitous running of it off the pitch, the whole fandom and experience has been slipping away recently. Third, obviously there's still lots of people who are wary/scared/brainwashed by the whole Covid thing and don't feel safe to go to games. There's also the rising costs of attending live games to consider, while RL is still a fairly cheap(er) leisure activity, people probably feel they're not getting their moneys worth as much, so they seek cheaper, more worthy leisure activities, people have got far less disposable income and don't feel justified in paying upwards of £25 for a rugby game, they can probably watch on TV anyway. I know lots of people across the board, not just my teams' fans, that have had enough of RL, I know of many Huddersfield fans who just can't be bothered anymore, either due to any of the above, maybe they got out of the habit of going due to family/work & shift patterns, maybe they found new friends and hobbies and ways to spend their time differently? But whatever the reason, the pandemic gave that "excuse" for people to not go, people who had been going because it's what they did, suddenly got out of the habit and just haven't been bothered or inclined to come back. I think it's going to take a lot to get people back now, the game on and off the field is as poor as I can ever remember it, in 35 years, the game has become stale, somewhat boring and robotic to watch and is no longer a brilliant form of entertainment. Sadly, I also think the majority that are left are the negative, ref bashing, whiners, so the rest of us will probably end up jumping ship soon! Isn't it great to have so many positives :) Huddersfield Giants Supporters Association Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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