Are you worried about attendances?

[ATLANTISMAN]

I personally think that this is a rugby league problem and that other sports wont see much change in numbers turning up.

Sadly my non league football team will now average more than the London Broncos.

This seriously needs adressing with a massive re-vamp and re-brand of super league.

 

Paul

[Death to the Rah Rah's]

2 minutes ago, ATLANTISMAN said:

I personally think that this is a rugby league problem and that other sports wont see much change in numbers turning up.

Sadly my non league football team will now average more than the London Broncos.

This seriously needs adressing with a massive re-vamp and re-brand of super league.

I totally agree, the sport seems to be at its lowest ebb since the early seventies when the game was on its last legs. The thing I find most disturbing is the seemingly lack of acknowledgment from the RFL and Super League clubs that the game has a problem.

Have any of the major stakeholders got off their backsides to try and find out why the game has become such a massive turn off with supporters, as surely that's the first place to start?

How can you even begin to tackle the issues if you don't know what those issues are?

Sure, we can all speculate on here and other forums, but there's no hiding from the fact the game has huge huge  problems which will soon become insurmountable if action isn't taken soon.

Personally, I find the game at Super league level boring and predictable, I don't like the Sky coverage as the anchors are bloody awful, and I've got to the point I rarely watch a full game.

The lack of an international programme has also reduced the national exposure of the game which probably goes someway to explain why the average person in the street couldn't name you a current Super League player.

The current RFL leadership seem to be clueless as to how to get out of this predicament, and again in my opinion, they need called out and a new team brought in to fully examine how the game has got to this position and formulate a plan with all the games stakeholders (including the community clubs), to try and find a way out of it.

My biggest worry is Sky hold all the cards here, if they decide to reduce or even pull their funding completely then what would happen to the top level professional game as the reality is, some clubs could barely afford to go part time, and as we know money talks, so how much money would it take to persuade the likes of Warrington, Leeds, St Helens, Wigan and Hull to jump ship completely and join a new RU Super League competition if they see no future in RL ......fantasy rugby possibly, but a £10 or £20 million sweetener plus a guaranteed £5 million TV money per year to participate would certainly turn their heads ....     

[Dave T]

3 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

Would just point out that 3 of top 5 most viewed content on  SL youtube are surprise surprise internationals. 

Doesnt help RFL and SL  have seperate channels but need to make the most of World Cup content. 

 

 

Freak incidents and heroic international moments are generally what are going to get you the large views. A Wigan v Hudds regular game that was also on telly ain't. 

[Hela Wigmen]

12 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

Yep but I'd like to see players mic'd up for big games or bbc games and have that be a weekly upload.

Didn’t Brett Hodgson rip it off at half time when BBC did that about ten years ago?

[Mumby Magic]

 Am I worried about attendances? Not at this stage after the pandemic. However if people think that the game will be saved, improved etc by yet another restructure they are seriously deluded. When clubs got the Murdoch money all them years ago, very few put the money into the structure, development and attracting crowds. What we are seeing now amongst other things are the remnants of this. 

[M j M]

12 hours ago, Dave T said:

We actively restricted our season ticket sales

I saw some clubs do this and thought then, and still think now... why? It made no sense to me.

[Rugbyleaguesupporter]

TV does have a big say so- same with any sport. I'm not sure getting angry at that helps. 

Play off game issue can be easily solved by rolling matches into a pass (with central revenue adjusted).

Losing bradford has been tough- no getting away from that. 

Restricting ST sales is so stupid I can't believe it. 

My minor issues which are minor but I think would improve: 

-Simple pricing. I get booking in advance so people don't decide differently on day- but quickly handing over £20 and not having to navigate a ticketing site/ scan into ground would help. 

- Can't we play match over a period closer to 90 mins and not 2 hours? 10 min half time and stop video farce. 

-Positivity- don't want a north Korea esque media, but stop discussing referee and promote the game- it's entertainment. 

[Josef K]

2 hours ago, Death to the Rah Rah's said:

I totally agree, the sport seems to be at its lowest ebb since the early seventies when the game was on its last legs. The thing I find most disturbing is the seemingly lack of acknowledgment from the RFL and Super League clubs that the game has a problem.

Have any of the major stakeholders got off their backsides to try and find out why the game has become such a massive turn off with supporters, as surely that's the first place to start?

How can you even begin to tackle the issues if you don't know what those issues are?

Sure, we can all speculate on here and other forums, but there's no hiding from the fact the game has huge huge  problems which will soon become insurmountable if action isn't taken soon.

Personally, I find the game at Super league level boring and predictable, I don't like the Sky coverage as the anchors are bloody awful, and I've got to the point I rarely watch a full game.

The lack of an international programme has also reduced the national exposure of the game which probably goes someway to explain why the average person in the street couldn't name you a current Super League player.

The current RFL leadership seem to be clueless as to how to get out of this predicament, and again in my opinion, they need called out and a new team brought in to fully examine how the game has got to this position and formulate a plan with all the games stakeholders (including the community clubs), to try and find a way out of it.

My biggest worry is Sky hold all the cards here, if they decide to reduce or even pull their funding completely then what would happen to the top level professional game as the reality is, some clubs could barely afford to go part time, and as we know money talks, so how much money would it take to persuade the likes of Warrington, Leeds, St Helens, Wigan and Hull to jump ship completely and join a new RU Super League competition if they see no future in RL ......fantasy rugby possibly, but a £10 or £20 million sweetener plus a guaranteed £5 million TV money per year to participate would certainly turn their heads ....     

If Saints joined a new RU:SL that’d be me finished watching the club. I’d go to football and watch more of St Helens Town AFC.

[Harry Stottle]

17 hours ago, meast said:

Only my opinion and not based on anything other than what I think,but I would say it's probably a factor of lots of things, however, I think the pandemic has just exacerbated these issues.

Firstly, I'd suggest attendances were already on the slide across the board, I compile away crowd figures for Huddersfield and those crowd figures have generally gone down year by year, we are now seeing the majority of away crowds into the hundreds now rather than thousands, which used to be the norm.

Secondly, people were slowly becoming less interested in the game as a whole, the product on the pitch, the calamitous running of it off the pitch, the whole fandom and experience has been slipping away recently.

Third, obviously there's still lots of people who are wary/scared/brainwashed by the whole Covid thing and don't feel safe to go to games.

There's also the rising costs of attending live games to consider,  while RL is still a fairly cheap(er) leisure activity, people probably feel they're not getting their moneys worth as much, so they seek cheaper, more worthy leisure activities, people have got far less disposable income and don't feel justified in paying upwards of £25 for a rugby game, they can probably watch on TV anyway.

I know lots of people across the board, not just my teams' fans, that have had enough of RL, I know of many Huddersfield fans who just can't be bothered anymore, either due to any of the above, maybe they got out of the habit of going due to family/work & shift patterns, maybe they found new friends and hobbies and ways to spend their time differently?

But whatever the reason, the pandemic gave that "excuse" for people to not go, people who had been going because it's what they did, suddenly got out of the habit and just haven't been bothered or inclined to come back.

I think it's going to take a lot to get people back now, the game on and off the field is as poor as I can ever remember it, in 35 years, the game has become stale, somewhat boring and robotic to watch and is no longer a brilliant form of entertainment.

Sadly, I also think the majority that are left are the negative, ref bashing, whiners, so the rest of us will probably end up jumping ship soon!

 

Isn't it great to have so many positives

 

Totally in agreement with everything you say Meast excepting the last paragraph, in my opinion like you state "the game has become stale, somewhat boring and robotic to watch and is no longer a brilliant form of entertainment" I also think there has been a decline in the quality of refereeing, but I will also add that those very same referees are much better when officiating non-televised games, which to me goes to show how many people work to their potential when someone is constantly looking over their shoulder and scrutinising everything they are doing. Allow them to develop their own personality by dropping the video deliberations and they will perform much better in my opinion, but it is not all about ref bashing, it is just another tick on the negative portion of the crib sheet that is putting people of the game.

[Smudger06]

10 hours ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

Season tickets are for when there's greater demand than available space? What? If there was great demand for individual tickets, why the hell would you sell a season ticket or offer discount? You wouldn't need to change anything at all.

 

Season tickets are to guarantee an income got the season ahead of time to help you budget. It's why places tie you into contracts rather than living off "pay as you go" because it's not a stable way to run a business.

There's thinking outside if the box, and there's just not thinking.

I completely agree we undersell the event side of our games. That isn't because we just rely on season tickets; it's because we're ###### at it as a sport. Taking away our guaranteed income won't make us better at it.

I've got an idea, but to find out for sure why you'd offer a season ticket in those circumstances ask MUFC and several other Premier League Clubs and NFL teams, probably because they want to help lifelong fans and not price them completely out of the game. 

You are acting much like the RL Clubs, simply not willing to look at ideas that take you out of that comfort box. 

It's just human nature, no dramas. 

[Smudger06]

Sky will match the effort that the game puts in......

If the game puts no effort into new media.....why would Sky.....Sky is a partner, if Sky sees the game going above and beyond, then Sky will match those efforts. If not it will assume the game is happy and work with those of its partners that are grafting and striving to achieve better. 

[Dave T]

2 hours ago, M j M said:

I saw some clubs do this and thought then, and still think now... why? It made no sense to me.

Yeah, I haven't thought it through fully, so not sure whether I think it was misguided or not. 

I think we sold 4k full season tickets which allowed them access to all games once opened. 

They did also then sell half-season tickets, which covered games past 'Freedom Day' - so I don't think it was fully capped, but a bit more restricted. I think as a principle it seems reasonable - don't sell tickets you know you can't fulfil - but I don't know how attractive the half tickets are - particularly with the amount of cancellations. I suspect people just held off to see what happens, and what is happening is not great based on numbers.

[Man of Kent]

I'd be more worried about falling TV ratings...

[Smudger06]

12 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

I'd be more worried about falling TV ratings...

I'd suggest there is a link between the two anyway.

Regardless they'll fall due to the general trend, cut the cord myself today, virgin media fibre optic, all the sports channels, gone.

 

[Wellsy4HullFC]

5 hours ago, Smudger06 said:

I've got an idea, but to find out for sure why you'd offer a season ticket in those circumstances ask MUFC and several other Premier League Clubs and NFL teams, probably because they want to help lifelong fans and not price them completely out of the game. 

You are acting much like the RL Clubs, simply not willing to look at ideas that take you out of that comfort box. 

It's just human nature, no dramas. 

What do you perceive would happen if SL clubs stopped selling season tickets?

[Smudger06]

20 minutes ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

What do you perceive would happen if SL clubs stopped selling season tickets?

You'd get full houses for Playoff games.

 

 

You'd get Clubs working harder at selling games individually rather than just settling for selling joblots when fans are consumers and they really should be selling retail anyway. People who can't commit to season tickets but could come to half the games don't, they end up coming to just a handful because they feel they are paying well over the going rate that many attending are paying. Basically devaluing the game to the price of a season ticket, casuals won't pay more....even season ticket holders won't pay more (as can be seen at playoffs) 

[Leyther_Matt]

22 minutes ago, Smudger06 said:

You'd get full houses for Playoff games.

There wouldn’t be any play off games without the income of season tickets.

Whilst I appreciate your point about more effort going in to marketing individual games, when clubs are playing at home sometimes four weeks out of five then you can’t expect people to pay out week after week.

Even at this stage of the return of fans, it is clear if people’s time and money isn’t already committed for the season then it goes elsewhere. 

[Wellsy4HullFC]

36 minutes ago, Smudger06 said:

You'd get full houses for Playoff games.

 

 

You'd get Clubs working harder at selling games individually rather than just settling for selling joblots when fans are consumers and they really should be selling retail anyway. People who can't commit to season tickets but could come to half the games don't, they end up coming to just a handful because they feel they are paying well over the going rate that many attending are paying. Basically devaluing the game to the price of a season ticket, casuals won't pay more....even season ticket holders won't pay more (as can be seen at playoffs) 

The casuals who you say won't last for a play off ticket will instead just not pay for tickets during the season, reducing the average and probably reduce the attraction of others wanting to go to the play offs anyway.

Season tickets have reduced the attraction of one off games, but brought in more guaranteed cash than before.

I don't see why you can't attract those extra fans who don't have season tickets AND those that do have season tickets during the season. I don't see how one affects the other for in-season games. 

 

[Dave T]

56 minutes ago, Smudger06 said:

You'd get full houses for Playoff games.

 

 

You'd get Clubs working harder at selling games individually rather than just settling for selling joblots when fans are consumers and they really should be selling retail anyway. People who can't commit to season tickets but could come to half the games don't, they end up coming to just a handful because they feel they are paying well over the going rate that many attending are paying. Basically devaluing the game to the price of a season ticket, casuals won't pay more....even season ticket holders won't pay more (as can be seen at playoffs) 

What's your next idea burning down the ticket office and punching every fan in the face as they enter the ground?

[Hela Wigmen]

Decent looking attendance at the KC. 

[meast]

9 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

Totally in agreement with everything you say Meast excepting the last paragraph, in my opinion like you state "the game has become stale, somewhat boring and robotic to watch and is no longer a brilliant form of entertainment" I also think there has been a decline in the quality of refereeing, but I will also add that those very same referees are much better when officiating non-televised games, which to me goes to show how many people work to their potential when someone is constantly looking over their shoulder and scrutinising everything they are doing. Allow them to develop their own personality by dropping the video deliberations and they will perform much better in my opinion, but it is not all about ref bashing, it is just another tick on the negative portion of the crib sheet that is putting people of the game.

I actually don't think referee's are that bad, I just think there are far too many one eyed fans out there that's exacerbating this belief.

I watch games as a neutral and sometimes think the referee has had a great game, not just neutral either, a few weeks back at the Giants v Catalans game, the Giants fans were on the ref's back almost straight away and never got off it, they shouted obscenities at him all game, yet I actually thought he had a good game and got most decisions correct, obviously our fans were too one eyed to see that.

I'm not saying referee's don't have bad games or make mistakes, but it's nowhere near as bad as what most fans make out.

[meast]

3 hours ago, Smudger06 said:

You'd get full houses for Playoff games.

 

 

You'd get Clubs working harder at selling games individually rather than just settling for selling joblots when fans are consumers and they really should be selling retail anyway. People who can't commit to season tickets but could come to half the games don't, they end up coming to just a handful because they feel they are paying well over the going rate that many attending are paying. Basically devaluing the game to the price of a season ticket, casuals won't pay more....even season ticket holders won't pay more (as can be seen at playoffs) 

And how long would most RL clubs survive without the guaranteed season ticket monies?

There won't be full houses because there won't be a sport without season ticket money.

[Harry Stottle]

48 minutes ago, meast said:

I actually don't think referee's are that bad, I just think there are far too many one eyed fans out there that's exacerbating this belief.

I watch games as a neutral and sometimes think the referee has had a great game, not just neutral either, a few weeks back at the Giants v Catalans game, the Giants fans were on the ref's back almost straight away and never got off it, they shouted obscenities at him all game, yet I actually thought he had a good game and got most decisions correct, obviously our fans were too one eyed to see that.

I'm not saying referee's don't have bad games or make mistakes, but it's nowhere near as bad as what most fans make out.

Me to Meast, I get some funny looks and blasphemous comments from fans around me when I say the ref is correct against their uneducated or one eyed judgement, but I maintain what I say the refs are like Jekyll and Hyde if the game is televised or not.

[Sir Kevin Sinfield]

1 hour ago, Hela Wigmen said:

Decent looking attendance at the KC. 

Hull always do at home to Leeds 

[Tommygilf]

2 hours ago, Hela Wigmen said:

Decent looking attendance at the KC. 

9 thousand odd