Are you worried about attendances?

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

10 hours ago, M j M said:

You haven't bothered, despite it being explained, to even try and understand the logistical impracticalities of having the gantry in that stand, as far away as possible from the Sky trucks. I won't bother explaining it again.

Extension leads? 

[Dave T]

I think we are once again guilty of over-thinking stuff like this. People watching on TV know that often the seats facing the cameras is a main stand that houses corporate facilities and are used to seeing empty seats. 

In fact people are just usdd to seeing empty seats and just crack on. I think Sky have portrayed the games at Leeds and Wire as lively fun atmospheres with fans really enjoying themselves, despite crowds being low. 

The only one that looks really bad to me is Salford, which is an oddly designed stadium. 

[Spidey]

22 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I think we are once again guilty of over-thinking stuff like this. People watching on TV know that often the seats facing the cameras is a main stand that houses corporate facilities and are used to seeing empty seats. 

In fact people are just usdd to seeing empty seats and just crack on. I think Sky have portrayed the games at Leeds and Wire as lively fun atmospheres with fans really enjoying themselves, despite crowds being low. 

The only one that looks really bad to me is Salford, which is an oddly designed stadium. 

In the original plan for the Salford stadium it was going to be 20/30k with stands as big as the main stand, I don’t think there was enough money in the end so that’s why it’s ended up with considerably smaller stands on the other sides

[gingerjon]

26 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I think we are once again guilty of over-thinking stuff like this. People watching on TV know that often the seats facing the cameras is a main stand that houses corporate facilities and are used to seeing empty seats. 

In fact people are just usdd to seeing empty seats and just crack on. I think Sky have portrayed the games at Leeds and Wire as lively fun atmospheres with fans really enjoying themselves, despite crowds being low. 

The only one that looks really bad to me is Salford, which is an oddly designed stadium. 

I agree that it's possible to overthink but, all things being even, you want to have fans in front of the camera.

[Chrispmartha]

26 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I think we are once again guilty of over-thinking stuff like this. People watching on TV know that often the seats facing the cameras is a main stand that houses corporate facilities and are used to seeing empty seats. 

In fact people are just usdd to seeing empty seats and just crack on. I think Sky have portrayed the games at Leeds and Wire as lively fun atmospheres with fans really enjoying themselves, despite crowds being low. 

The only one that looks really bad to me is Salford, which is an oddly designed stadium. 

I don't think people are as obsessed with watching the stands as many on this forum, changing the design of Headingley and adding a lot of cost just so the cameras face the south stand would be madness, the corporate facilities at Headingley bring in a lot of revenue, the south stand gets plenty of camera coverage during the the game.

 

the North Stand will look fine when crowds get back to something like, and it is clearly the Covid issue that's affecting crowds.

Take Fridays game against Castleford, who knows it might get cancelled, this makes it difficult for the club to overly promote the game and equally if not more so why would supporters buy tickets or plan early of there's a chance it might not go ahead.

Next year is the real test and unfortunately the World Cup could (still could) have had a massive boost in crowds next year.

[daz39]

Attendances have always been a worry for me, even when we had a fast, action packed entertaining sport full of razzmatazz they were never that big barring the top 3 or 4.

Now we have a monotonous robotic game that gets it's structure, it's rules, it's operations changed so regularly fans can't keep up with it.

Obviously add a world wide pandemic and a general population who have got used to not doing anything in and it's all a recipe for disaster.

Thr whole game needs stripping back to the barebones and starting again, preferably with new people and new ideas coming in to freshen things up.

I don't think it helps this year with fans only allowed back in for half of the season and a lot of games being cancelled or played on weeknights a lot have probably just wrote this one off or can't see the point this year and will probably start again next year.

[HawkMan]

What effect covid19 has had on attendances,  such as are some   people simply not bothered about going to live sport, or are they put off by having to prove their double jab status, or is money simply too tight, lots of folks have lost jobs. These questions may be answered to some degree when The EFL and EPL returns. If they suffer a drop off then it's not just a RL thing, but if they don't see a reduction then that's a different situation altogether. 

[Scubby]

I think this is a smoke screen about simply fans will come back when they are ready. If we see in a couple of weeks that football crowds are back to previous levels and cricket crowds continue as they are, then we cannot kick this hesitancy idea around for much longer and think that it only applies to RL. Revenue is revenue and excuses are excuses.

[Trojan]

10 hours ago, ShropshireBull said:

Clubs in SL punching above their weight for crowds are Hull KR and Cas (2019). Underperforming: Wakey Wigan and Salford. 

Championship: Fev doing well. Widnes holding up after some nightmare years. Underperforming: Fax and Bulls because of our hole. Broncos are practically dead at this point .

We need a World Cup and to absolutely hammer the season tickets for 2022. 

Could it be because of our executive boxes? 

https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-post-office-road-terracing-big-fellas-stadium-https://featherstone-rovers-71224212.html

[Chrispmartha]

1 hour ago, Scubby said:

I think this is a smoke screen about simply fans will come back when they are ready. If we see in a couple of weeks that football crowds are back to previous levels and cricket crowds continue as they are, then we cannot kick this hesitancy idea around for much longer and think that it only applies to RL. Revenue is revenue and excuses are excuses.

The difference is their season (the football) is starting after the restrictions, we have had restrictions or no crowds for pretty much a season and a half, its not an excuse it's an explanation and has to be figured into the reasons for poor crowds at present.

 

Does the game need to do more to attract fans 100% yes has the Pandemic had an impact on the crowds now 100% yes, they aren't mutually exclusive.

[Dave T]

2 hours ago, gingerjon said:

I agree that it's possible to overthink but, all things being even, you want to have fans in front of the camera.

Of course you do, but it's not unusual for cameras to face a 'main' stand. Often an aesthetically pleasing stand, but not necessarily the most busy. 

Leeds have a smaller capacity in that stand now so there was no reason to believe it would look poor, obviously they have new seats elsewhere now. But that'll settle down and Leeds looks good.

Same with Saints and Wire - the stands don't look full, but they look better than being pointed at terracing. If that terracing isn't full it looks rubbish. 

The challenge is just as simple as trying to fill every space every time, pointing cameras at a different stand isn't a great solution. 

I think there is a case for some clubs in large grounds to think where they seat people, but it's not a massive issue. 

[Dave T]

1 hour ago, Scubby said:

I think this is a smoke screen about simply fans will come back when they are ready. If we see in a couple of weeks that football crowds are back to previous levels and cricket crowds continue as they are, then we cannot kick this hesitancy idea around for much longer and think that it only applies to RL. Revenue is revenue and excuses are excuses.

Refusing to accept context doesn't mean that there is none. 

[Dave T]

1 hour ago, ShropshireBull said:

And Wigan...and Huddersfield and Wakey...

But they are not really configuration issues, they are too big for the teams. 

But I'd argue there are few better sights and atmospheres than a large crowd in Wigan's ground. 

[Scubby]

2 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Refusing to accept context doesn't mean that there is none. 

All other sports have had context though too. However, if we are the only ones using this excuse in a few months time then it is no longer contextual - it is the sport.

[Chrispmartha]

Just now, Scubby said:

All other sports have had context though too. However, if we are the only ones using this excuse in a few months time then it is no longer contextual - it is the sport.

Of course it's contextual, our season started with no crowds, restricted crowds then no restrictions but cancelled games due to covid.

Even in a few months time all that has to be factored into the attendances, take Season Tickets for example, there was obviously going to be a drop in sales when people didn't have a clue how many games they would be able to attend or when, pay per game tickets, not knowing whether the game will actually go ahead will obviously affect walk ups.

You can't just say well look football is getting good attendances so the Sport of RL is all wrong, it's far too much of a simplistic view.

 

As Ive stated this is not a head burying exercise, we have to do more to get crowds in but just dismissing the huge impact the Covid situation has had on the sport could just eat to making rash decisions about the sport and trying to fix things that aren't broken - despite what is said on here the game is still highly entertaining and we still have some of the best athletes in any sport taking the field every week.

[jacobus]

To go back to the original question. Yes I am.

But there are plenty of other things that I worry about in rugby league to an equal or possibly higher level. 

Participation, structures, broadcasting, reliance on gambling sponsorship, dis-harmony with the southern hemisphere, failure to expand out of the historical heartlands and so on...

I want to be positive about the game because I love what happens on the park each week. 

However, there is always some drama going on behind the scenes that spills out into the public domain to cause negativity. 

 

[Mumby Magic]

13 hours ago, ShropshireBull said:

I wont knock corporate for RL.  Its a massive part of the top teams offer.  I only wish Bulls had a similar 2-3 seated stand with corporate and modern media facilities.

What our stand at the end of the ground?

[Tommygilf]

6 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Refusing to accept context doesn't mean that there is none. 

 

2 minutes ago, Scubby said:

All other sports have had context though too. However, if we are the only ones using this excuse in a few months time then it is no longer contextual - it is the sport.

I think this is the reason for the worry for me imo.

I'm willing to accept the context as an explanation now, but I worry that it is indicative of where we are potentially headed. The 15 months out of the grind, closer to 24 months at the start of next season, could be a defining moment for the sport if the crowds don't recover quickly.

[Scubby]

1 minute ago, Chrispmartha said:

Of course it's contextual, our season started with no crowds, restricted crowds then no restrictions but cancelled games due to covid.

Even in a few months time all that has to be factored into the attendances, take Season Tickets for example, there was obviously going to be a drop in sales when people didn't have a clue how many games they would be able to attend or when, pay per game tickets, not knowing whether the game will actually go ahead will obviously affect walk ups.

You can't just say well look football is getting good attendances so the Sport of RL is all wrong, it's far too much of a simplistic view.

 

As Ive stated this is not a head burying exercise, we have to do more to get crowds in but just dismissing the huge impact the Covid situation has had on the sport could just eat to making rash decisions about the sport and trying to fix things that aren't broken - despite what is said on here the game is still highly entertaining and we still have some of the best athletes in any sport taking the field every week.

I am not dismissing it. I am saying that RL's attitude appeared to be that the fans would just roll back with minimal effort. They even banged full price £50 Wembley tickets out to fans thinking they would easily sell out - they didn't.

People have got out of the habit and the game needs to find the resources to make it exciting to come to RL games again. Poor Covid management and games cancelled left right and centre is not helping either - fans are out of the loop. Other sports are not experiencing this level of cancellations. I follow the game and completely forgot there were SL fixtures on last night.

There's a lot of work to do and crowds are suffering because of what is going on at the moment. Some of it, however, is the game's own doing.

 

[Chrispmartha]

Just now, Scubby said:

I am not dismissing it. I am saying that RL's attitude appeared to be that the fans would just roll back with minimal effort.

 

I don't know if that's true across the board of all RL clubs, I think most would have realised it wouldn't be back to normal crowds until at least next year.

You've also got to remember the other financial impacts of Covid, how many staff will still be on furlough. maybe those staff are part of the marketing teams, maybe those staff have been made redundant, how many sponsors pulled the money, marketing and pushing the games costs money and time.

There are a whole load of issues for the sport to come out of this pandemic in a healthy state.

Of course some of it is the games doing, Im not sure the games being called of is the games fault though, they are following the protocols set by the government and we simply do not have the funds to create bubbles and things like that.

We are simply at a int where we need to try and finish this season as credibly as possible and have a real push for the start of next season.

[Dave T]

4 minutes ago, Scubby said:

All other sports have had context though too. However, if we are the only ones using this excuse in a few months time then it is no longer contextual - it is the sport.

All sports are different - have their different audiences and setup.

RL season tickets make up a large proportion of our customer base. These are sold between September and January in the main. This sales window was absolutely obliterated, with a reluctance to buy tickets that could prove to be worthless for a 2nd season. People were comfortable supporting their club once, to ask them to fund season tickets 2 years running was clearly too much. This has led to a situation where we have a far smaller season ticket base than normal.

We know that Rugby League does not do well on a cash basis - and trying to sell tickets for individual matches on random days, with 50/50 chance of cancellation is challenging.

On the flip side - Football has just staged a series of hugely positive test events at the Euros, and will be kicking off their season with a real buzz around it as they can enjoy unrestricted crowds and a growing vaccinated population. 

If Leeds get 9.1k v Wire next year, or Hull get 7k v Saints - when we have had a full pre-season sales window and are playing in regular slots wihout cancellation, then I will come back and hold my hands up and say you were right, but it is crystal clear why the crowds are lower. 

[Dave T]

23 minutes ago, Scubby said:

I am not dismissing it. I am saying that RL's attitude appeared to be that the fans would just roll back with minimal effort. They even banged full price £50 Wembley tickets out to fans thinking they would easily sell out - they didn't.

A move that I was a lone voice being critical of Scubby. Everyone here said it was very fair pricing, and it was celebrated.

But I suspect a rewriting of history and it will be used as a tool to bash the RFL.

[gingerjon]

2 minutes ago, Dave T said:

A move that I was a lone voice being critical of Scubby. Everyone here said it was very fair pricing, and it was celebrated.

But I suspect a rewriting of history and it will be used as a tool to bash the RFL.

It got 40,000 attendance.

I thought that wasn't bad at all, considering.

And wasn't worth going full budget option just get another 5,000 through the door.

[Dave T]

6 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

It got 40,000 attendance.

I thought that wasn't bad at all, considering.

And wasn't worth going full budget option just get another 5,000 through the door.

You know my thoughts on the pricing point, but it is interesting that it is being used here to bash the RFL when I was pretty much on my own in that thread.

[gingerjon]

2 minutes ago, Dave T said:

You know my thoughts on the pricing point, but it is interesting that it is being used here to bash the RFL when I was pretty much on my own in that thread.

People being fickle is not news.

But you are allowed one (one) moment of smug satisfaction.