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Are you worried about attendances?


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On 07/08/2021 at 23:57, Johnoco said:

Apart from 1911 when Bradford City won the FA Cup and were getting attendances that far eclipsed their previous life as Manningham?
Or perhaps the Huddersfield Town all conquering team of the 1920’s?

So not exactly true really. 

So that'll be well into the 20th century then will it not?

🙄

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5 hours ago, Johnoco said:

1911 or 1920 is not well into the 20th century, it's more or less at the start.

There's a lot of soccer clubs north of Barnsley which were formed between 1900 and 1910.

Rugby was the dominant code untill then.

"We'll sell you a seat .... but you'll only need the edge of it!"

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On 08/08/2021 at 12:04, Dave T said:

I think the poibt on the tagline is over the top (The Hundred cricket has stolen that tagline) , but I 100% agree with the principle.

Even on these forums people complain about the actual sport so often of it is anything less than a classic. I had a group of 5 going to Wire today, and 3 of them possibly couldn't name a player. They were going to get som fresh air, have a beer, catch up with friends and enjoy the atmosphere etc. We are overly-obsessed with the 80m rather than seeing the product as the whole event. 

Obviously the sport is important, but lesser sports (personal preference) have shown that growth is possible despite what they offer as sport. 

There is a place for more interesting narrative around the comp and teams and players, but I really think it is the experience that we don't sell. People always, always bang on about creating personalities, I don't think that is the thing that will make the biggest positive change at all. 

A shift to being an event, an activity, a gathering etc is what will make the big change.

Yup - I travel over 2 hours each way to see Broncos as something to do and to catch up with people I take. I have gone to meet family and work colleagues - none of whom are league fans but enjoy a living event.

I knew we would get hammered yesterday and it made no difference to me attending. In fact, the novelty of a French side made it more enticing. 

Similarly I go to the darts every new year and never watch a game.

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47 minutes ago, Leonard said:

Yup - I travel over 2 hours each way to see Broncos as something to do and to catch up with people I take. I have gone to meet family and work colleagues - none of whom are league fans but enjoy a living event.

I knew we would get hammered yesterday and it made no difference to me attending. In fact, the novelty of a French side made it more enticing. 

Similarly I go to the darts every new year and never watch a game.

What was the crowd like yesterday Leonard? 

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Football comparison (based on one weekend so far too early but here for reference).

This weekend average (2019/20 season average)

Championship: 16,294 (18,585)

League One: 11,200 (8,576)

League Two: 4,414 (4,687)

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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10 hours ago, gingerjon said:

Football comparison (based on one weekend so far too early but here for reference).

This weekend average (2019/20 season average)

Championship: 16,294 (18,585)

League One: 11,200 (8,576)

League Two: 4,414 (4,687)

Yes obviously too early as much depends on which clubs are at home on a given weekend. The figures in two months will be interesting - the novelty will have maybe worn off a bit, and those weekly variations will have levelled off

FWIW those first weekend figures don't give an impression of any lack of demand in football - so why are RL fans more reluctant? Is it the ageing fan base being more cautious? If that's even close to being the case, it shows that we desperately need to attract more younger people.

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On 26/07/2021 at 17:39, Tommygilf said:

5.5k at Wigan v Wakefield

10.5k at Leeds v Salford

No matter how you spin it this isn't the packed out return to attendances the sport was looking for. The real question that needs answering quickly is why?

Is it covid related attendance hesitancy? Possibly for some, but I don't know if anyone else went out this weekend but it certainly didn't seem quiet in the city centre I was in. If there is hesitancy, then it is impacting RL fan demographies more acutely - that they are quite narrow and leaves the sport vulnerable to this sort of acute problem is another issue.

More worryingly, is it that there is just too much better competition for people's money? The sport has been struggling for relevance before Covid, and has hardly taken many actions to rectify that since. Its also been highly reliant on Season Ticket attendees, whose numbers presumably have been dented as a result of Covid. 

Whilst many have struggled through Covid, lots have saved money too. There is clearly an appetite for leisure and entertainment. But perhaps in such a congested market RL isn't cutting through - and doesn't have the resources to do so. 17 or so months away from the grounds, out of the habit, with plenty of problems leaving fans disillusioned and a hell of a lot of competition for people's time and money - its not the ideal environment.

Perhaps it will get better...

How many clubs do match day awareness schemes where they make as many people as possible in their area aware when they are at home who they are playing and the Kick off time. For argument sake the Wakey v Wovles is the only Super League game taking place on Sunday so in this case what are Wakey doing to promote it and letting as many people in the area as possible about the game?

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On 08/08/2021 at 12:04, Dave T said:

I think the poibt on the tagline is over the top (The Hundred cricket has stolen that tagline) , but I 100% agree with the principle.

Even on these forums people complain about the actual sport so often of it is anything less than a classic. I had a group of 5 going to Wire today, and 3 of them possibly couldn't name a player. They were going to get som fresh air, have a beer, catch up with friends and enjoy the atmosphere etc. We are overly-obsessed with the 80m rather than seeing the product as the whole event. 

Obviously the sport is important, but lesser sports (personal preference) have shown that growth is possible despite what they offer as sport. 

There is a place for more interesting narrative around the comp and teams and players, but I really think it is the experience that we don't sell. People always, always bang on about creating personalities, I don't think that is the thing that will make the biggest positive change at all. 

A shift to being an event, an activity, a gathering etc is what will make the big change.

I think as fans we are often quite insecure about our sport and overthink things. We are always trying to spread the word and encourage new fans. We are always trying to justify our view of how good the game is. I think that is all a result of all the rubbish and discrimination the sport has faced over the years. A Catholic guilt type affliction.

I know when I take friends who are not particularly RL fans to games I am always thinking I hope its a good game, I hope they enjoy it. I don't think that is really the case when I get dragged to different sporting events.

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9 hours ago, Damien said:

I think as fans we are often quite insecure about our sport and overthink things. We are always trying to spread the word and encourage new fans. We are always trying to justify our view of how good the game is. I think that is all a result of all the rubbish and discrimination the sport has faced over the years. A Catholic guilt type affliction.

I know when I take friends who are not particularly RL fans to games I am always thinking I hope its a good game, I hope they enjoy it. I don't think that is really the case when I get dragged to different sporting events.

I think this is right.

And I think this also goes back to the constant focus on the 80m being the best sport in the world. Instead of being the best event. 

Many of my best sport experiences have little to do with the actual action on the pitch. And I say that as somebody who has a huge interest in the actual sport. 

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13 hours ago, The Future is League said:

How many clubs do match day awareness schemes where they make as many people as possible in their area aware when they are at home who they are playing and the Kick off time. For argument sake the Wakey v Wovles is the only Super League game taking place on Sunday so in this case what are Wakey doing to promote it and letting as many people in the area as possible about the game?

The problem is that there is a big difference between advertising and marketing, and I think people focus heavily on the first one and not enough on the second. 

The sport can't advertise it's way out of its problems. Yes, it's necessarily to tell people who we are, when we're playing and all of that, but that in itself doesn't make the product and the experience we offer more attractive to the sorts of people the sport wants and/or needs to reach. 

There can't be many people in Huddersfield who don't know who the Giants are - awareness really shouldn't be a problem for any of our clubs, especially given the small communities that many are active in. What I think is lacking is that message of 'why' they should attend a Giants game and what a Giants game can offer them - in terms of a form of entertainment but also in terms of an experience that caters to them and one that they can enjoy. 

Put it another way - vegans and vegetarians knew what a Greggs sausage roll was. No amount of advertising or awareness was going to change the fact that vegans and vegetarians (a growing group of people) didn't want to eat at Greggs. What did get vegans and vegetarians eating at Greggs was offering something that vegans and vegetarians wanted. That's the thing that RL is struggling with. 

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5 minutes ago, whatmichaelsays said:

The problem is that there is a big difference between advertising and marketing, and I think people focus heavily on the first one and not enough on the second. 

The sport can't advertise it's way out of its problems. Yes, it's necessarily to tell people who we are, when we're playing and all of that, but that in itself doesn't make the product and the experience we offer more attractive to the sorts of people the sport wants and/or needs to reach. 

There can't be many people in Huddersfield who don't know who the Giants are - awareness really shouldn't be a problem for any of our clubs, especially given the small communities that many are active in. What I think is lacking is that message of 'why' they should attend a Giants game and what a Giants game can offer them - in terms of a form of entertainment but also in terms of an experience that caters to them and one that they can enjoy. 

Put it another way - vegans and vegetarians knew what a Greggs sausage roll was. No amount of advertising or awareness was going to change the fact that vegans and vegetarians (a growing group of people) didn't want to eat at Greggs. What did get vegans and vegetarians eating at Greggs was offering something that vegans and vegetarians wanted. That's the thing that RL is struggling with. 

I'm sure there are a majority of people in towns and cities aware they have a Rugby League club, but how many are aware of when they playing at home and against who and the kick off time. Something needs to be done to get more people watching the game

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50 minutes ago, The Future is League said:

I'm sure there are a majority of people in towns and cities aware they have a Rugby League club, but how many are aware of when they playing at home and against who and the kick off time. Something needs to be done to get more people watching the game

No disagreement there.

But the "something that needs to be done" is more than simply saying "we're playing Wakefield on Sunday at 3pm". That's the easy (and cheaper) advertising bit. 

The important bit is convincing people that watching Huddersfield play Wakefield is the thing that they want to be doing at 3pm on Sunday. That's the harder marketing bit. 

My point is that people think that this problem can be solved by the easy, cheap bit. 

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13 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

In the old days in The Beano or Dandy, a bill sticker would put up a poster saying ‘Town v City Saturday, KO 3pm’ or ‘Rovers v Rangers’

If only it was like that now.

 

The days of sticking a poster in a pub or shop window are long gone. The world has moved on, but the game hasn't. 

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49 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

In the old days in The Beano or Dandy, a bill sticker would put up a poster saying ‘Town v City Saturday, KO 3pm’ or ‘Rovers v Rangers’

If only it was like that now.

 

Usually Rovers v Rangers.  Or possibly City v United.  I don't remember Town v City".

"We'll sell you a seat .... but you'll only need the edge of it!"

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7 hours ago, whatmichaelsays said:

No disagreement there.

But the "something that needs to be done" is more than simply saying "we're playing Wakefield on Sunday at 3pm". That's the easy (and cheaper) advertising bit. 

The important bit is convincing people that watching Huddersfield play Wakefield is the thing that they want to be doing at 3pm on Sunday. That's the harder marketing bit. 

My point is that people think that this problem can be solved by the easy, cheap bit. 

Spot on as usual. 

The common theme on here seems to be about “raising awareness” of the sport, “if only X could see a game they’d be hooked”. The public really aren’t that ignorant. The vast majority of those who follow sport week in week out are well aware of Rugby league. They will have seen it on terrestrial television. BBC Radio Merseyside has a 1 hour RL show which covers the city of Liverpool, it hasn’t budged scousers. As you say it’s about enticing non RL followers to watch a game.

I find gimmicks don’t really work, especially if based on BS. The “every minute matters” slogan would have turned me off instantly as it was kidology. The more fixtures you add (super eights) you more you bloat the competition, making each game/minute matter less. By trimming the competition, you then elevate the importance of each game, therefore such a slogan would apply. The clubs want extra games for the coffers, but in doing so they dilute the significance of each game. 

I’d trim down the number of fixtures. I’d also look to find a way of making eye catching open attacking play much more common. Any stifling play like the wrestle I’d clamp right down on. And holding on more than (I dunno) two seconds during the play the ball routine, whistle goes and team goes 10 yards up the field (if that takes play past the try line, then try). I want more turnstile defences, wide open runs through midfield leaving players in their wake. Side steps and dummies galore. Individuals amassing 4 to 5 tries in a game, and not the close in variety. Games where you know instantly who the man of the match is (and not have to be informed by a RL expert on commentary/in the studio), that’s how stars are created. RU has a higher profile than RL, and yet RU hasn’t had a star in well over a decade, which doesn’t bode well for RL. What made Lomu a star, he could not do now, as the much increased average player size and much tighter defences (via RL coaches) would stifle him. Stifling creativity kills a sport.

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2 minutes ago, DC77 said:

Spot on as usual. 

The common theme on here seems to be about “raising awareness” of the sport, “if only X could see a game they’d be hooked”. The public really aren’t that ignorant. The vast majority of those who follow sport week in week out are well aware of Rugby league. They will have seen it on terrestrial television. BBC Radio Merseyside has a 1 hour RL show which covers the city of Liverpool, it hasn’t budged scousers. As you say it’s about enticing non RL followers to watch a game.

I find gimmicks don’t really work, especially if based on BS. The “every minute matters” slogan would have turned me off instantly as it was kidology. The more fixtures you add (super eights) you more you bloat the competition, making each game/minute matter less. By trimming the competition, you then elevate the importance of each game, therefore such a slogan would apply. The clubs want extra games for the coffers, but in doing so they dilute the significance of each game. 

I’d trim down the number of fixtures. I’d also look to find a way of making eye catching open attacking play much more common. Any stifling play like the wrestle I’d clamp right down on. And holding on more than (I dunno) two seconds during the play the ball routine, whistle goes and team goes 10 yards up the field (if that takes play past the try line, then try). I want more turnstile defences, wide open runs through midfield leaving players in their wake. Side steps and dummies galore. Individuals amassing 4 to 5 tries in a game, and not the close in variety. Games where you know instantly who the man of the match is (and not have to be informed by a RL expert on commentary/in the studio), that’s how stars are created. RU has a higher profile than RL, and yet RU hasn’t had a star in well over a decade, which doesn’t bode well for RL. What made Lomu a star, he could not do now, as the much increased average player size and much tighter defences (via RL coaches) would stifle him. Stifling creativity kills a sport.

Correct , nothing wrong with an 80 minute game of RL , nothing wrong with 13 players ( although the no of players and size of pitch wasn't originally designed for super fit athletes , like most ' old ' sports ) , it's how the game is played , where it is played , partly the ' experience ' , and how hard the clubs work to get people in and give them a good time 

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Just now, GUBRATS said:

Correct , nothing wrong with an 80 minute game of RL , nothing wrong with 13 players ( although the no of players and size of pitch wasn't originally designed for super fit athletes , like most ' old ' sports ) , it's how the game is played , where it is played , partly the ' experience ' , and how hard the clubs work to get people in and give them a good time 

Growing up what intrigued me about RL was a good percentage of the crowd that simply rocked up 5 minutes before the kick off and often left right on the hooter or (if losing) 5-10 before. That means you basically only have 90 minutes to try and upsell to this audience and 70-80 of that is taken up by the match itself.

Not that much has changed. You have to find ways to get people into the ground as early as possible and get them to hang around after. 

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6 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Correct , nothing wrong with an 80 minute game of RL , nothing wrong with 13 players ( although the no of players and size of pitch wasn't originally designed for super fit athletes , like most ' old ' sports ) , it's how the game is played , where it is played , partly the ' experience ' , and how hard the clubs work to get people in and give them a good time 

I've been saying for ages that we shouldn't start before March at the earliest.

The one big advantage of a winter season was that it started and ended in good weather.

Not that I'm looking for a return to winter rugby at my age .....

"We'll sell you a seat .... but you'll only need the edge of it!"

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5 hours ago, Scubby said:

Growing up what intrigued me about RL was a good percentage of the crowd that simply rocked up 5 minutes before the kick off and often left right on the hooter or (if losing) 5-10 before. That means you basically only have 90 minutes to try and upsell to this audience and 70-80 of that is taken up by the match itself.

Not that much has changed. You have to find ways to get people into the ground as early as possible and get them to hang around after. 

Barrow are doing great offering free entry for anyone turning up before 1pm. Making it an experience with food and drink instead of people leaving it as late as possible to get there because they're in the local pub 

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15 hours ago, Griff said:

I've been saying for ages that we shouldn't start before March at the earliest.

The one big advantage of a winter season was that it started and ended in good weather.

Not that I'm looking for a return to winter rugby at my age .....

I don't mind the early starts, the attendances are often decent as people are crying out for RL, but I'm not a fan of the October Grand FInal. I'd do everything we could to get a Mid-Sept Grand Final at the very latest - the Grand Final at Old Trafford has never ever felt like the climax of a summer sport. 

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On 11/08/2021 at 09:22, Johnoco said:

It’s not ‘well into it’ either way. In 100 years time do you think they will say smartphones came into use ‘well into the 21st century?’? 
 

Fact is, soccer took a hold very quickly in West Yorkshire and grew like crazy. Obviously the rugby schism didn’t help matters but that’s what happened. 

Last word from me on this, but how many years into a century do you determine is well into it?

I consider 10 years well into a century never mind 21/22 👍

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1 hour ago, meast said:

Last word from me on this, but how many years into a century do you determine is well into it?

I consider 10 years well into a century never mind 21/22 👍

No - it's at least 27 years 4 months.

"We'll sell you a seat .... but you'll only need the edge of it!"

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