Are you worried about attendances?

[GUBRATS]

48 minutes ago, The storm said:

The only problem with people from Stoke 

Is that they come from Stoke 

As long as you're a ' duck ' and not a ' #### '

Why is the word c o c k , a swear word ?

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

59 minutes ago, The storm said:

The only problem with people from Stoke 

Is that they come from Stoke 

There was a famous Newman and Baddiel quote about Stoke from nearly 30 years ago (Jesus that's sobering to say!) 

"You know what they say...... Stoke on Trent.......

[wasginger]

1 minute ago, GUBRATS said:

As long as you're a ' duck ' and not a ' #### '

Why is the word c o c k , a swear word ?

I'm afraid it's people who don't understand different dialects that cause the problem. I always ask if people are alright old ####, with no inference to anything offensive. 

[GUBRATS]

2 minutes ago, wasginger said:

I'm afraid it's people who don't understand different dialects that cause the problem. I always ask if people are alright old ####, with no inference to anything offensive. 

In Stoke it's ' all right old Duck " , strange ?

[wasginger]

What the hells hashtags for. The worlds gone effing barmy.

[Tommygilf]

Nothing wrong with Stoke

 

[Dave T]

On 21/08/2021 at 13:00, Chrispmartha said:

Completely agree, I’ve said before its going to become a self fulfilling prophecy.

I think we are at that place. The fans 'telling it as it is' are damaging the game they apparently support. 

And I'm not referring to on here as this is one of the moderate places to discuss RL. 

[Death to the Rah Rah's]

I was thinking about season tickets the other night and what could be done to increase sales, and I'm also of the opinion that clubs need to reinvent the marketing and embrace technology.

How many season ticket holders also buy a monthly draw, or flip that on its head and ask how many people are members of club monthly draws but don't attend games?

Maybe clubs do need to move away from selling season tickets and repackage as 'memberships' - comprising different levels of membership, offering admission to all games including cup matches as well as 'ifollow' type access to away games.

The premium package could include tickets for very home game, plus an online weekly magazine, a weekly prize draw, with more basic monthly draw package including admission to low category games (ie: without naming names we all know who which games attract the most fans)

I would be interested to see how Hull KR's new fanzone has been received as all clubs really need to improve on their matchday experience.

Ultimately its all about offering value for money and a matchday experience and that's sadly been missing in the game for a number of years now 

[FearTheVee]

Clubs have become lazy and lack imagination IMO.

There is no match day experience basically anywhere anymore.  No push to get kids along.  No creativity.

The last few games I've gone to I've been struck by how the demographic has shifted dramatically back to older fans.  I'm no naysayer or pessimist when it comes to the sport, but there are legitimate issues and I worry that the clubs and owners look for quick answers rather than acknowledging where balls have been dropped and redoubling efforts with their own fan bases.

Wigan is a prime example - on their site all you ever see is people complaining about how little communication there is from the club.  If you can't be bothered engaging with your own customers you are dead in the water.

[Chrispmartha]

21 minutes ago, FearTheVee said:

Clubs have become lazy and lack imagination IMO.

There is no match day experience basically anywhere anymore.  No push to get kids along.  No creativity.

The last few games I've gone to I've been struck by how the demographic has shifted dramatically back to older fans.  I'm no naysayer or pessimist when it comes to the sport, but there are legitimate issues and I worry that the clubs and owners look for quick answers rather than acknowledging where balls have been dropped and redoubling efforts with their own fan bases.

Wigan is a prime example - on their site all you ever see is people complaining about how little communication there is from the club.  If you can't be bothered engaging with your own customers you are dead in the water.

I agree about the match day experience.

Leeds do this OK probably better than most clubs (sounds like Hull KR are doing a good job at the moment).

I've been to most away matches for the last few years (obviously not when we weren't allowed) and it does strike me that a lot of clubs simply don't do enough on match days.

Wigan I agree seem to be one of the worst. But I think the Wigan club have quite a few issues to address at the moment, I think they were hoping the 'rebrand' (i've said enough of o that particular subject) would give them a bit of an uplift, maybe it will in time, however I think they need a bit of a reset on and off the pitch, Wigan has such a rich history to draw upon but from an outsider looking in they don't seem to do a good job of using all that history to market themselves today, again look at Leeds I think they get the mix of history and modern just about right, but I appreciate that my bias may play a bot of a part in that thinking.

I went to a preseason game the other year and it was Liam Farrell's testimonial, and there was literally no kind of celebration or anything, in contrast when Leeds have testimonials they push the boat out, even though it's a friendly they try to make it a special occasion.

 

I thin the rivals round this week has been a bit of a step in the right direction and should be expanded upon next year, the issue with this is if the 'rivals' play each other 4 times a year it impacts on the marketability of those fixtures.

[MZH]

1 hour ago, Death to the Rah Rah's said:

I was thinking about season tickets the other night and what could be done to increase sales, and I'm also of the opinion that clubs need to reinvent the marketing and embrace technology.

How many season ticket holders also buy a monthly draw, or flip that on its head and ask how many people are members of club monthly draws but don't attend games?

Maybe clubs do need to move away from selling season tickets and repackage as 'memberships' - comprising different levels of membership, offering admission to all games including cup matches as well as 'ifollow' type access to away games.

The premium package could include tickets for very home game, plus an online weekly magazine, a weekly prize draw, with more basic monthly draw package including admission to low category games (ie: without naming names we all know who which games attract the most fans)

I would be interested to see how Hull KR's new fanzone has been received as all clubs really need to improve on their matchday experience.

Ultimately its all about offering value for money and a matchday experience and that's sadly been missing in the game for a number of years now 

Hull have done that to a degree, offering full and basic memberships. The full one basically being a season ticket, the basic one giving you access to Hull FC TV, priority booking for big games, discounts on various things etc. I'd like to see us do more with the concept though.

[gingerjon]

3 hours ago, Dave T said:

I think we are at that place. The fans 'telling it as it is' are damaging the game they apparently support. 

And I'm not referring to on here as this is one of the moderate places to discuss RL. 

We had the issue a few years ago where we were crying out for regular press coverage.

Unfortunately we did still, just, have regular coverage. It was just that none of the writers would deign to be a 'cheerleader' for the sport. (Something they didn't seem to have an issue with when it came to writing about other sports or events).

[Kayakman]

20 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

We had the issue a few years ago where we were crying out for regular press coverage.

Unfortunately we did still, just, have regular coverage. It was just that none of the writers would deign to be a 'cheerleader' for the sport. (Something they didn't seem to have an issue with when it came to writing about other sports or events).

It is too bad Toronto still wasn't in the comp......all of the things people are worrying about such as match day experience and a younger demographic, female attendance etc. were not issues...these were only some of the intangibles that Toronto brought to the game....too bad really.

[gingerjon]

2 minutes ago, Kayakman said:

It is too bad Toronto still wasn't in the comp......all of the things people are worrying about such as match day experience and a younger demographic, female attendance etc. were not issues...these were only some of the intangibles that Toronto brought to the game....too bad really.

Yeah but I'd like to make sure that we paid our players and suppliers so, y'know, swings and roundabouts.

[whatmichaelsays]

2 hours ago, Death to the Rah Rah's said:

I was thinking about season tickets the other night and what could be done to increase sales, and I'm also of the opinion that clubs need to reinvent the marketing and embrace technology.

How many season ticket holders also buy a monthly draw, or flip that on its head and ask how many people are members of club monthly draws but don't attend games?

Maybe clubs do need to move away from selling season tickets and repackage as 'memberships' - comprising different levels of membership, offering admission to all games including cup matches as well as 'ifollow' type access to away games.

The premium package could include tickets for very home game, plus an online weekly magazine, a weekly prize draw, with more basic monthly draw package including admission to low category games (ie: without naming names we all know who which games attract the most fans)

I would be interested to see how Hull KR's new fanzone has been received as all clubs really need to improve on their matchday experience.

Ultimately its all about offering value for money and a matchday experience and that's sadly been missing in the game for a number of years now 

Leeds have/had three tiers of membership - Gold (silver but with access to some corporate bars), Silver (standard season ticket) and Bronze (basically a card you pay to add matches to) - and have also done 'flexi-cards' in the past which apply to certain games but, if I remember rightly - you couldn't just pick a 'five pack' ticket with the five best games - you had to have at least one 'runt' in the litter. 

The problem in some respects is that the season ticket is not that much of a benefit really - certainly not if you have a general admission ticket.  

It's a while since I checked but in ordinary times, but I think the season ticket works out at 2-ish free games vs buying match-by-match, so I bought a bronze card for a few years as I simply missed too many games through work, holidays and family commitments to make the full season ticket worthwhile. 

The problem with it is that, from the fan perspective, it only really offered any value if tickets are difficult to get, which is rarely the case in RL. Other than not paying a booking fee, the only other perks were not having paper tickets (irrelevant in the age of mobile phone ticketing) and being able to join the priority queue for finals tickets - but it's not like those are hard to get hold of and if anything, it's getting even easier. 

There weren't enough other perks to really make it valuable and in the end, I found I was mainly buying it for symbolic or altruistic reasons. 

These different tiers of membership have to be carefully put together. If you make the lower tiers too good, it can encourage too many higher tier membership holders to downgrade, but the lower tiers still need to offer something of value to those who do hold it.

Unless you have enough demand for tickets, then pitching the basic membership card as a sort of "queue jump" doesn't really work because there is no queue to jump. It really is hard to see an audience for it when tickets are easy to get and when you can get through the turnstile simply by waving a mobile phone under a barcode reader. 

The fundamental issue here is the general lack of demand. We can talk about different ways to sell something to someone but if there aren't enough people out there wanting to buy it, we're not really solving the problem. Why would I buy something that lets me jump a queue that doesn't exist or something that doesn't really offer me much more than a typical 'pay on the day' fan? 

Football clubs can do these schemes because people are (often literally) fighting for tickets. You can't even join the queue for a Leeds United ticket without paying £75, and even then there is no guarantee - there is inherent value in those memberships. RL doesn't have that - you probably have to go back to the early 00's (thinking Leeds-Bradford in 2004-5) for a time when you genuinely needed some sort of priority status to get a Grand Final ticket once the clubs were known. 

[Hopping Mad]

I may (or may not) worry about yesterday's Rochdale-Hunslet attendance - if only I knew what it was. Hornets didn't announce it after the final hooter and haven't divulged it since on social media or their website. Anyone help me out?

[DimmestStar]

1 hour ago, FearTheVee said:

Clubs have become lazy and lack imagination IMO.

There is no match day experience basically anywhere anymore.  No push to get kids along.  No creativity.

https://www.hullkr.co.uk/welcome-to-craven-streat/

[Dave T]

1 hour ago, gingerjon said:

We had the issue a few years ago where we were crying out for regular press coverage.

Unfortunately we did still, just, have regular coverage. It was just that none of the writers would deign to be a 'cheerleader' for the sport. (Something they didn't seem to have an issue with when it came to writing about other sports or events).

This constant narrative that RL is on its death bed is draining. That comes from fans, journos, players, owners. The game won't die. It may become different, bigger, smaller, irrelevant in some places, but that's life. 

I recall the outrage when John O'Neill from the ARU talked about RL dying, but it is what we hear every day from so called supporters. 

A bad ref/VR decision in a match? The game is dying. 

A player signs for an NRL club? The game is dying. 

A top club has to offload a player? The salary cap is killing the game. 

A 2 match ban for a star player? The game is dying. 

A sin bin for a late hit? The game is dying. 

It is relentless, and really draining. My wife is Scottish and finds the things us RL fans get wound up over funny. She sums us up as 'miserable Northern buggers'. She is right. 

The self-deprecating, sarcastic, dry, not-suffering fools gladly, dour attitudes that are prevalant in the North of England can be a real problem. Those characteristics work well when balanced out with the other traits of humour, kindness, creativity and empathy, but I think they are too often lacking from the RL fan base at the moment. 

[Gerrumonside ref]

In these discussions there’s often ultimately a good appraisal of what might incentivise more people to attend matches, watch more on tv or buy more merchandise.

People look at the experience they’ve had at the Hundred for example in the cricket or at the NFL/basketball/baseball and identify the things that for them went beyond the product on the pitch.

Then we often say there’s just no seed money in rugby league to imitate these things effectively as the clubs just haven’t got it as businesses.

Are we reaching a point whereby it must be stipulated that x percentage of spend by each club must go on marketing as part of the salary cap rather than gearing everything at the club to success on the pitch only?

 

[Dave T]

2 hours ago, FearTheVee said:

Clubs have become lazy and lack imagination IMO.

There is no match day experience basically anywhere anymore.  No push to get kids along.  No creativity.

The last few games I've gone to I've been struck by how the demographic has shifted dramatically back to older fans.  I'm no naysayer or pessimist when it comes to the sport, but there are legitimate issues and I worry that the clubs and owners look for quick answers rather than acknowledging where balls have been dropped and redoubling efforts with their own fan bases.

Wigan is a prime example - on their site all you ever see is people complaining about how little communication there is from the club.  If you can't be bothered engaging with your own customers you are dead in the water.

I think you need to look at the start of the 2020 season to judge what clubs are doing, and then the start of the 2022 season. But I disagree that clubs are not doing anything with the match day. We have seen things like light shows become a part of the package, Hull KR's fanzone, Wire have bands in concourses etc. Clubs are still doing stuff, but at the moment when you don't even know if a game will be played even on the day, getting acts and event companies in isn't a good use of money. 

[Dave T]

Just now, Gerrumonside ref said:

In these discussions there’s often ultimately a good appraisal of what might incentivise more people to attend matches, watch more on tv or buy more merchandise.

People look at the experience they’ve had at the Hundred for example in the cricket or at the NFL/basketball/baseball and identify the things that for them went beyond the product on the pitch.

Then we often say there’s just no seed money in rugby league to imitate these things effectively as the clubs just haven’t got it as businesses.

Are we reaching a point whereby it must be stipulated that x percentage of spend by each club must go on marketing as part of the salary cap rather than gearing everything at the club to success on the pitch only?

 

Well this is what the salary cap effectively does. 

Clubs can only spend £2.5m or so with marquee players, and if you are turning over between £5 to £10m per year, then you will be spending your money elsewhere. 

[Gerrumonside ref]

2 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I think you need to look at the start of the 2020 season to judge what clubs are doing, and then the start of the 2022 season. But I disagree that clubs are not doing anything with the match day. We have seen things like light shows become a part of the package, Hull KR's fanzone, Wire have bands in concourses etc. Clubs are still doing stuff, but at the moment when you don't even know if a game will be played even on the day, getting acts and event companies in isn't a good use of money. 

This is fair I think.

[Gerrumonside ref]

Just now, Dave T said:

Well this is what the salary cap effectively does. 

Clubs can only spend £2.5m or so with marquee players, and if you are turning over between £5 to £10m per year, then you will be spending your money elsewhere. 

So why so little marketing/promotion on the face of it then?

[Dave T]

Just now, Gerrumonside ref said:

So why so little marketing/promotion on the face of it then?

I'm not saying all clubs are doing the right thing, or investing in the right areas, but I think each club has different needs too. 

But if we didn't have the cap I have no doubts clubs would spend that few hundred thousand that may have been ring-fenced for facilities, branding, promotional activities would absolutely go on another player instead. 

But I agree with your point that we aren't doing enough. 

[Scubby]

4 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I think you need to look at the start of the 2020 season to judge what clubs are doing, and then the start of the 2022 season. But I disagree that clubs are not doing anything with the match day. We have seen things like light shows become a part of the package, Hull KR's fanzone, Wire have bands in concourses etc. Clubs are still doing stuff, but at the moment when you don't even know if a game will be played even on the day, getting acts and event companies in isn't a good use of money. 

I am willing to accept the huge impact all the postponements have had in fan confidence. Also, many would have swerved season tickets at the start of the year (the pre season period leading into SL was full lock down). I am hoping that some of the recent poor crowds have provided a firecracker to clubs that there is no guarantee fans will roll back and it is sparking new marketing and promotional pushes for the 2022 season. I think the World Cup would have provided a real spark for the game in the UK - which is a shame.