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31 minutes ago, whatmichaelsays said:

Surely the bigger question needs to by over why the games supporters aren't willing to pay full price for what is supposedly the "business end" of the season, with "everything on the line" fixtures between the season's best teams? 

I understand why people think that the answer to this issue is in making tickets cheaper, but I'd argue the real difference comes in making the playoffs more desirable. Cheap tickets isn't marketing.

I think in reality, it is likely that whole fan bases need to be changed to make these events must-attend. And as we know, that is neither easy, nor reasonable priced. 

We can't ignore the type of fan, or culture that we have cultivated over the last 25 years. I think most SL fans are looking forward to the playoffs, they all know about them, and I expect the TV figures will be some of the highest of the year. The problem is that a lot of Wire, Leeds, Wigan and KR fans will be watching on TV. 

I genuinely think it will be a decade of activity or so to really start to change some of these behaviours that are embedded in our fan base. 

We have two choices - we either work with what we have - which leads us to cheap seats or including matches on season tickets, or we invest in changing the fan base, which costs millions, is likely to lead to short term pain and has no guarantees. 

Of course the right answer is the latter, but RL operates in a World where it can't always afford to even start to do the right things because of the shoestring budgets we operate on. 

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20 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I think in reality, it is likely that whole fan bases need to be changed to make these events must-attend. And as we know, that is neither easy, nor reasonable priced. 

We can't ignore the type of fan, or culture that we have cultivated over the last 25 years. I think most SL fans are looking forward to the playoffs, they all know about them, and I expect the TV figures will be some of the highest of the year. The problem is that a lot of Wire, Leeds, Wigan and KR fans will be watching on TV. 

I genuinely think it will be a decade of activity or so to really start to change some of these behaviours that are embedded in our fan base. 

We have two choices - we either work with what we have - which leads us to cheap seats or including matches on season tickets, or we invest in changing the fan base, which costs millions, is likely to lead to short term pain and has no guarantees. 

Of course the right answer is the latter, but RL operates in a World where it can't always afford to even start to do the right things because of the shoestring budgets we operate on. 

I'd agree with that, but my worry is that we and/or the sport has been saying "these things take a long time" for what seems like an awfully long time.

You aren't going to change habits, purchasing habits and demographics overnight, but we've known that 'all pay' attendances at RL events are below where the sport would like them to be for some time and it doesn't seem that, in all the years we've had available and with all that television revenue we've had in that time, the needle has moved much (if at all) to address that. 

And the longer the sport waits to start moving that needle, the more expensive it gets, because the fanbase we do have will age, the numbers will fall and it will become harder (and more expensive) to convince the new audiences that we do want to attract. 

Cheap tickets, in my view, just entrench the situation RL is already in. I said it on the Huddersfield ticket thread, but I think price is not the main reason why we struggle with certain demographics, so tinkering with the price doesn't really solve the issue. It might encourage some season ticket holders off the sofa and into the grounds this Thursday and Friday, but it doesn't make a dent in addressing the challenge you describe above. 

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1 minute ago, whatmichaelsays said:

I'd agree with that, but my worry is that we and/or the sport has been saying "these things take a long time" for what seems like an awfully long time.

You aren't going to change habits, purchasing habits and demographics overnight, but we've known that 'all pay' attendances at RL events are below where the sport would like them to be for some time and it doesn't seem that, in all those years and with all that television revenue, the needle has moved much (if at all) to address that. 

And the longer the sport waits to start moving that needle, the more expensive it gets, because the fanbase we do have will age, the numbers will fall and it will become harder (and more expensive) to convince the new audiences that we do want to attract. 

Cheap tickets, in my view, just entrench the situation RL is already in. I said it on the Huddersfield ticket thread, but I think price is not the main reason why we struggle with certain demographics, so tinkering with the price doesn't really solve the issue. It might encourage some season ticket holders off the sofa and into the grounds this Thursday and Friday, but it doesn't make a dent in addressing the challenge you describe above. 

Aye, couldn't agree more, price is a short term fix, but it does reinforce the current position. If they are to be used, they need to be used as part of a strategy that is looking at what the fan base looks like in 10 years, not just trying to get an extra 2k in this Friday. 

Understanding the benefits of tapping into the higher affluence market seems to be a real weakness for us. For one, they are less likely to struggle to afford £60 for a family to attend on Friday, get them on board and they attend without thinking. 

We've prided ourselves on this working class base for so long, it is at the exclusion of other segments. There is little to cater for aspiration 

The most expensive RL ticket I've ever bought was £55, £65 for RU and £115 for football. 

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18 minutes ago, Dave T said:

We've prided ourselves on this working class base for so long, it is at the exclusion of other segments. There is little to cater for aspiration 

That, combined with the fact that the "identity" of the working class has been getting weaker and weaker over time.

RL still seems to have this idea that "working class" means leaving school at 16 and buying a terraced house next to the local factory that would provide you with a "job for life". That doesn't happen now. "Working class" people (by the "you need to work for a living" definition) are more transient, they go to university, they work in finance and tech roles, they commute longer distances, they hop jobs every few years to advance their careers, they go on foreign holidays and they drink in fancy bars. 

I'm sure if we did a straw poll on here around what working class means, you'd get an awful lot of different ideas and definitions of what it means, which is a problem if your product's core audience is "the working class". 

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55 minutes ago, whatmichaelsays said:

That, combined with the fact that the "identity" of the working class has been getting weaker and weaker over time.

RL still seems to have this idea that "working class" means leaving school at 16 and buying a terraced house next to the local factory that would provide you with a "job for life". That doesn't happen now. "Working class" people (by the "you need to work for a living" definition) are more transient, they go to university, they work in finance and tech roles, they commute longer distances, they hop jobs every few years to advance their careers, they go on foreign holidays and they drink in fancy bars. 

I'm sure if we did a straw poll on here around what working class means, you'd get an awful lot of different ideas and definitions of what it means, which is a problem if your product's core audience is "the working class". 

Absolutely, I would definitely fit into the working class category, and my entertainment, food and drink tastes would be classed as pretentious, I have no doubts about that  😆

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15 hours ago, shrek said:

Whilst I hope you right, I'm not convinced. 

There was a real pent up excitement amongst friends to get back to football, cricket, F1 etc but when it came to the rugby it seemed to be more doom and gloom, especially in Wigan, plenty seem keen to find excuses (obviously anecdotal) around how 2020 season ticket refunds where handled or not, some still banging on about the Edwards saga.  Hopefully they'll see sense for 2022, but like I say I'm not entirely convinced they will.

Good effort on your weekend sporting endeavours!

There are a multitude of doom and gloom merchants in rugby league journalism. 

They no doubt have low ranking degrees and struggled to find a decebt job, so went solo reoorting on football matches and the like for a hundred quid a throw (this site is the exception to that rule). 

 

We need to talk our sport up

 

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On 20/09/2021 at 14:21, Eddie said:

How many have Widnes been getting to games this season? I have looked but can’t find any published. 

They've not been great but then performances have given people plenty of reasons not to attend.

Having said that, the turn out at Swinton last Sunday was way in excess of anything I've witnessed at other away games I've attended.

Just because you think everyone hates you doesn't mean they don't.

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1 hour ago, Jill Halfpenny fan said:

They've not been great but then performances have given people plenty of reasons not to attend.

Having said that, the turn out at Swinton last Sunday was way in excess of anything I've witnessed at other away games I've attended.

somewhere in the region of 700-800 which is a good turn out 

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4 hours ago, The storm said:

There are a multitude of doom and gloom merchants in rugby league journalism. 

They no doubt have low ranking degrees and struggled to find a decebt job, so went solo reoorting on football matches and the like for a hundred quid a throw (this site is the exception to that rule). 

 

We need to talk our sport up

 

Not sure I understand your point on Rugby League journalism and how it was relevant to my post.  

Would agree we need to talk our sport up, have the best sport in the world, with seemingly some of the least committed fans.

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On 20/09/2021 at 08:49, Harry Stottle said:

obviously play off games can not be included in the ST purchase as it is an unknown how many or if any there would be,

Why not? My Hamilton Tiger-Cats (CFL) seasons tickets include playoff games, if they don't make it then it's a credit on your next years' season tickets. Or you could get the cash back if you really wanted. Don't see why anyone else couldn't do the same.

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11 hours ago, TheReaper said:

Why not? My Hamilton Tiger-Cats (CFL) seasons tickets include playoff games, if they don't make it then it's a credit on your next years' season tickets. Or you could get the cash back if you really wanted. Don't see why anyone else couldn't do the same.

I wasn't aware of that thankyou for the info Mr Reaper, I think that is a great idea it could incentivise people to carry on purchasing a season ticket the following season, only problem could be that a real bad season could result in some turning away and claiming a refund but real supporters wouldn't do that, would they?

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3 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

I wasn't aware of that thankyou for the info Mr Reaper, I think that is a great idea it could incentivise people to carry on purchasing a season ticket the following season, only problem could be that a real bad season could result in some turning away and claiming a refund but real supporters wouldn't do that, would they?

I think tying it into the season ticket or even store credit instead of cashback would be a way of protecting yourself there. 

I think it's a good idea. 

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14 hours ago, TheReaper said:

Hamilton Tiger-Cats 

I feel like the campness of this team name needs at least noting. It has two musicals in it!

I can confirm 30+ less sales for Scotland vs Italy at Workington, after this afternoons test purchase for the Tonga match, £7.50 is extremely reasonable, however a £2.50 'delivery' fee for a walk in purchase is beyond taking the mickey, good luck with that, it's cheaper on the telly.

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1 hour ago, Cheshire Setter said:

Those two are homo-erotic children’s cartoon characters, as opposed to camp musical characters. It’s a completely different sub-genre.

I'm not even going to look what ' homo-erotic ' means 

Some strange folk on here 😬

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1 hour ago, GUBRATS said:

I'm not even going to look what ' homo-erotic ' means 

He-Man has long been a gay icon. I thought everybody knew that, even the straightest-laced straight blokes who put 3 sugars in their tea.

To be honest I used to think it was a wind up, until a gay colleague pointed out that there is a spaceship in the cartoon that's named 'The Rainbow' and there is even a character called - errmmm, how do I put this? - 'Fisto'... 😁

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  • 3 weeks later...

If anyone is interested, the crowd figures for Huddersfield Giants home games in 2020 and 2021.

2020-

Wigan (Sun) 6,574 ( 1,319 away)

Toronto (Wed) 1,788 (0) officially but 10-15 supporting them.

2021-

Salford (Fri) 2,374 (321)

Catalans (Thu) 1,904 (0) around 10 supporters

Wigan (Fri) 2,194 (420)

Hull FC (Thu) 3,699(488)

Wakefield (Sun) 3,964 (510)

Hull KR (Bank hol Mon ) 3,652 (631)

Warrington (Thu) 4,017 (545)

Leigh (Sun) 3,867 (321)

 

An average of 3,208 for the 2021 season and 3,404 for 2020/2021 seasons.

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15 minutes ago, meast said:

If anyone is interested, the crowd figures for Huddersfield Giants home games in 2020 and 2021.

2020-

Wigan (Sun) 6,574 ( 1,319 away)

Toronto (Wed) 1,788 (0) officially but 10-15 supporting them.

2021-

Salford (Fri) 2,374 (321)

Catalans (Thu) 1,904 (0) around 10 supporters

Wigan (Fri) 2,194 (420)

Hull FC (Thu) 3,699(488)

Wakefield (Sun) 3,964 (510)

Hull KR (Bank hol Mon ) 3,652 (631)

Warrington (Thu) 4,017 (545)

Leigh (Sun) 3,867 (321)

 

An average of 3,208 for the 2021 season and 3,404 for 2020/2021 seasons.

All this after major investment in the playing squad, a youth system producing some genuine top-level talents and incredible value season tickets.

I wonder if Ken Davy is one of the chairmen to have sneered about the value Toulouse will bring to Super League (that's the Toulouse who got nearly as many fans through the gate last night as Huddersfield managed in their first 4 games of 2021) because they won't fill their ground for them...

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1 hour ago, Ray Cashmere said:

All this after major investment in the playing squad, a youth system producing some genuine top-level talents and incredible value season tickets.

I wonder if Ken Davy is one of the chairmen to have sneered about the value Toulouse will bring to Super League (that's the Toulouse who got nearly as many fans through the gate last night as Huddersfield managed in their first 4 games of 2021) because they won't fill their ground for them...

Have you read any of this thread previously?

Lives and games have been severely disrupted due to the covid stuff over the last 2 years.

Not sure if you've noticed, but attendances have declined across all clubs, especially SL clubs due to the covid stuff.

Most of the away support is considerably lower than in any previous years, for the first 4 games, crowds were restricted due to the covid stuff, so in effect most games were over 50% of allowed capacity, it's irrelevant how many Toulouse attracted to a play off final with no crowd restrictions.

Lots of people are still seemingly reluctant to attend events due to the covid stuff, and Huddersfield, with an ageing fanbase have been hit particularly hard, hence the reason they are trying to tempt a younger audience with cheap season ticket offers.

To use this as yet another stick to try and beat Huddersfield with is a bit poor 🙂

Ken Davy isn't the Huddersfield chairman, Keith Hellawell is.

 

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