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Wigan got the biggest crowd of the season last night despite having given nobody any reason to suppose that there was a genuine contest on the way. The day Saints “only” get 16k again is a long way away. 
 

As far as Wigan’s business model is concerned, as I mentioned in the match thread, all of our efforts should go into the first team, and buying overseas players and an overseas coach. We spend millions on community initiatives, and want to run multiple teams. A complete waste of time and money.
 

Ditch all that, and we can do very well on 10k crowds. Which is still of course more than pretty much every other club whose fans post dozens of “woe is me, look at Wigan’s tiny crowds” posts on here. 

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10 minutes ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

Wigan got the biggest crowd of the season last night despite having given nobody any reason to suppose that there was a genuine contest on the way. The day Saints “only” get 16k again is a long way away. 
 

As far as Wigan’s business model is concerned, as I mentioned in the match thread, all of our efforts should go into the first team, and buying overseas players and an overseas coach. We spend millions on community initiatives, and want to run multiple teams. A complete waste of time and money.
 

Ditch all that, and we can do very well on 10k crowds. Which is still of course more than pretty much every other club whose fans post dozens of “woe is me, look at Wigan’s tiny crowds” posts on here. 

The whole thread is about that.  Its a game wide trend of which Wigan, known as one of the games biggest teams, is sadly an example of. 

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1 hour ago, ShropshireBull said:

The whole thread is about that.  Its a game wide trend of which Wigan, known as one of the games biggest teams, is sadly an example of. 

I would argue that Wigan’s crowds tell us very little about the wider game. There are lots of things we can do, as I mentioned in my post, which are specific to us rather than symptomatic of other issues. Our circumstances are unique - you can’t learn anything from Wigan’s challenges which would help with solving the issues as Huddersfield, Salford, Trinity etc. 

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5 minutes ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

I would argue that Wigan’s crowds tell us very little about the wider game. There are lots of things we can do, as I mentioned in my post, which are specific to us rather than symptomatic of other issues. Our circumstances are unique - you can’t learn anything from Wigan’s challenges which would help with solving the issues as Huddersfield, Salford, Trinity etc. 

All clubs in the game are experiencing a decline.  It’s sheer arrogance that you think it doesn’t apply to Wigan

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55 minutes ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

I would argue that Wigan’s crowds tell us very little about the wider game. There are lots of things we can do, as I mentioned in my post, which are specific to us rather than symptomatic of other issues. Our circumstances are unique - you can’t learn anything from Wigan’s challenges which would help with solving the issues as Huddersfield, Salford, Trinity etc. 

Reducing crowds, ageing fanbase and infrastructure that makes the product look awful on tv lowering the money we can get?

No.  They are the same. 

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51 minutes ago, Spidey said:

All clubs in the game are experiencing a decline.  It’s sheer arrogance that you think it doesn’t apply to Wigan

It’s not arrogance at all. It’s arrogance to accuse me of arrogance, but I will let you off. Wigan and Leeds’ positions are entirely different from others, and should be treated as such, in my opinion. We have clearly all the latent support we need, it is simply a question of how to appeal to that latent support again. The problem for pretty much everyone else is how to appeal to new potential spectators. I would love everyone to have Wigan’s “problems” - a great schools and junior network and generations of deep love for the institution that is our club. Our “problem” with crowds isn’t about raising awareness, it is because we have implemented a ridiculous business model which is both ruinously expensive and entirely self defeating. 

When Wigan’s crowds grew from the 4K who watched when I started to the regular 15k crowds they did so off the back of recruiting and fielding box office attraction players. And would return as soon as we have box office players again. The only lesson to be learnt from that is don’t waste money trying to build a home grown team and ditch all these “community” initiative distractions. You can learn far more of general application to the rest of the game by looking at the likes of York, London, Barrow and Newcastle for do’s and don’ts rather than Wigan’s micro climate caused by over entitled triumph or disaster fans. 

Looking at it another way, there have been occasions when the overall average at SL games was at or near 10k. Which was nice, but those averages were usually inflated by the 3 very well supported SL sides - Wigan, Leeds and Bradford: scratch the surface and there were already plenty of clubs within that pyramid which were getting far less than break even crowds. 

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2 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

Reducing crowds, ageing fanbase and infrastructure that makes the product look awful on tv lowering the money we can get?

No.  They are the same. 

We have plenty of latent support, but have deliberately gone down a route which ignores why they came in the first place. We have plenty of juniors and schools playing our game, and plenty of younger fans. As for the “look”, I will give you that, though I am sure Sky would love to see Huddersfield and Salford’s grounds so full. For what it’s worth, I prefer the set ups at Saints and Wire, but we have had no say in where we play, and are unlikely to do so any time soon. 

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25 minutes ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

We have plenty of latent support, but have deliberately gone down a route which ignores why they came in the first place. We have plenty of juniors and schools playing our game, and plenty of younger fans. As for the “look”, I will give you that, though I am sure Sky would love to see Huddersfield and Salford’s grounds so full. For what it’s worth, I prefer the set ups at Saints and Wire, but we have had no say in where we play, and are unlikely to do so any time soon. 

Yeah thats the common issue. Hiddersfield in their box same for Salford.  Like Wigan looked ok last night but Wed?  Hull today but outside of derby.  

We really only have 4 teams who regularly look good on tv at home (saints wire leeds kr) and dragons if We get a feed. 

Thats why I am praying for Toulouse York and Newcastle to come up so sky have some more teams they can show on tv.

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4 hours ago, Chrispmartha said:

On the flip side using figures from during a pandemic as proof of the games decline is equally daft and ‘part of the problem’.

 

Not when other sports or events are attracting good or better figures than before. In fact it highlights the endless excuses in RL and the complete lack of doing anything about it.

It's not as if the figures *before* the pandemic were anything to write home about. 

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1 hour ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

Looking at it another way, there have been occasions when the overall average at SL games was at or near 10k. Which was nice, but those averages were usually inflated by the 3 very well supported SL sides - Wigan, Leeds and Bradford: scratch the surface and there were already plenty of clubs within that pyramid which were getting far less than break even crowds. 

So why didn't SL insist that these other clubs pull their finger out and improve matters? Some clubs have managed it, others are perfectly content to drift along propped up with Sky money.

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1 hour ago, Johnoco said:

Not when other sports or events are attracting good or better figures than before. In fact it highlights the endless excuses in RL and the complete lack of doing anything about it.

It's not as if the figures *before* the pandemic were anything to write home about. 

My point still stands, there’s a few factors  why crowds are down and covid is a very big factor

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30 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said:

They’ll be better than they are currently.

Is that an achievement? Crowds are down from a few years ago, keeping them at that level is not a positive. 

It's all about aspiration. In 1999-2000 traditionalists laughed at the vision of SL then, and it wasn't without problems by any means,vee had plenty of low crowds then. 

But the overall mentality seemed to be 'great, Leeds-Bradford got 18K...next time we want 20K' - and there would be at least an attempt publicise that. Now it is 'Wigan-Saints got 16k, that's great'

 

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1 minute ago, Johnoco said:

Is that an achievement? Crowds are down from a few years ago, keeping them at that level is not a positive. 

It's all about aspiration. In 1999-2000 traditionalists laughed at the vision of SL then, and it wasn't without problems by any means,vee had plenty of low crowds then. 

But the overall mentality seemed to be 'great, Leeds-Bradford got 18K...next time we want 20K' - and there would be at least an attempt publicise that. Now it is 'Wigan-Saints got 16k, that's great'

 

No , it's " thats ok a month after we can open up fully , next year we have to get back to where we were and build from that " 

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13 hours ago, ShropshireBull said:

16,000 only last night.  Thought they would get at least 20k.  We are in trouble. 

I took a Stoke City fan to the game last night, his first ever live RL match. He loved every minute of it, even though it was one sided affair he didn’t care who won he just enjoyed the whole night. He has only seen the players get stuck in to one another on TV, but he said “seeing it live was something else, how the f*** do they f****** get up and carry on playing after those tackles”. He was also surprised how good the atmosphere was. I’ve not persuaded him to be a Saints fan (yet), but he said “he’d love to come another match”.
I know people will say ‘he’s a Stoke fan he will watch anything”, but he is now a Stoke City fan who has enjoyed the games on TV but would now love to attend more live RL games. 

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25 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

No , it's " thats ok a month after we can open up fully , next year we have to get back to where we were and build from that " 

Yeah ok. Because it was building before that.... definitely. 

You can see it was so by the declining crowds. 

But it was definitely building.

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6 minutes ago, Josef K said:

I took a Stoke City fan to the game last night, his first ever live RL match. He loved every minute of it, even though it was one sided affair he didn’t care who won he just enjoyed the whole night. He has only seen the players get stuck in to one another on TV, but he said “seeing it live was something else, how the f*** do they f****** get up and carry on playing after those tackles”. He was also surprised how good the atmosphere was. I’ve not persuaded him to be a Saints fan (yet), but he said “he’d love to come another match”.
I know people will say ‘he’s a Stoke fan he will watch anything”, but he is now a Stoke City fan who has enjoyed the games on TV but would now love to attend more live RL games. 

Its why that World cup would of been huge. Also in RL we are short event games to take people to.  Wigan Saints Hull Derby.  Wire games.  But I couldnt imagine showing anyone say Salford,  would just feel to sad. 

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3 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

Yeah ok. Because it was building before that.... definitely. 

You can see it was so by the declining crowds. 

But it was definitely building.

Did I say we were building previously ? 

Work needs to be done , but neither are we at death's door , do I have an answer ? Nope , neither does anybody else it seems , work to be done 

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2 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Did I say we were building previously ? 

Work needs to be done , but neither are we at death's door , do I have an answer ? Nope , neither does anybody else it seems , work to be done 

You're not a true fan if you don't admit the game is at death's door and are desperate to keep on saying it over and over and over.

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36 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

Is that an achievement? Crowds are down from a few years ago, keeping them at that level is not a positive. 

It's all about aspiration. In 1999-2000 traditionalists laughed at the vision of SL then, and it wasn't without problems by any means,vee had plenty of low crowds then. 

But the overall mentality seemed to be 'great, Leeds-Bradford got 18K...next time we want 20K' - and there would be at least an attempt publicise that. Now it is 'Wigan-Saints got 16k, that's great'

 

I didn’t say it was an achievement, you seem to be conflating two separate issues.

The lowish crowds we are seeing compared  to pre pandemic are mainly down to the pandemic is simply the point Im making.

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