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Are you worried about attendances?


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9 hours ago, Rach said:

Certainly at lower level RL , the whole social aspect of watching the game has been altered by restrictions , that have taken much of the joy away from spectating at this level and seen many drift off to watch the Community Game .

Over stewarding , lack of pre/post match social facilities , segregation / away fans bans , no paying on the gate meaning no spontaneous attendance , the threat of games being called off meaning an end of to overnight trips/ train travel  to more remote clubs , supporters buses unable to run due to social distancing making them financially unviable . 

I could go on ....



 

You've come up with plenty of reasons why the numbers are lessened.

Hopefully when all these disincentives are removed the numbers will climb up again. 

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4 minutes ago, sweaty craiq said:

Currently SL is a joke, poor officials, cheating players, cancelled fixtures, understrength clubs play one week then not the next, terrible covid compliance

Yes, although away from St Helens things aren't as bad.

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8 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Well they've kept the big screen they put up for the Euro's , I was in Barrow all last week 

Barrow board are just thinking of different ways to get people in the ground. Some Might not be paying the gate money but by getting them in very early the punters are spending on food and drinks. Free tickets to kids have to go with a paying adult and kids won’t go to the game unless they are eating and drinking the hole game. I no from experience. Lots of teenagers making a day of it now with their mates it’s great to see. The only down side to it is me and my mate have to go a bit early now cause someone else may be standing were we always stand so we now spend more on a few pints 

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8 hours ago, Whippet13 said:

Season ticket sales are significantly down across SL and the Championship in 2021, understandably people haven't bought due to Covid and not knowing what games they were getting or when. Season tickets drive people to attend regularly in RL so be interesting to see what behaviour the prospect of a settled 2022 brings, the sport needs to start pushing this as start of a "re-set" strategy. 

Age is also having an effect this year, Wigan for example has quite an old fan base (other clubs too), these people are much less likely to attend during a health pandemic. Covid is highlighting the need to attract younger people to RL, they are the ones driving attendance at other events in big numbers.

The low attendances are all down to low season ticket sales for this season. People just don’t buy tickets anymore for single games in big numbers, other than for big events and Finals. Clubs need to be really pushing a mini season ticket to the end of the year, something Leeds did reasonably well, hence their drop in attendance seems to be a smaller percentage than other clubs.

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12 hours ago, Eddie said:

The Leeds one doesn’t seem too bad (would have been 12k before Covid?), but Wigan’s is horrendous. The clubs, SL and RFL need to wake up big time. 

It's shown in recent years SL and the RFL haven't a clue how to push the game forward.

Sponsorship deals being less even before covid. Crowds falling before covid. They didn't have a clue how to promote the CC Final before covid and giving out free tickets is not the answer. Giving Robert Elstone a huge salary and all he could could come with was Cutting the wolfpack and gifting Leigh a Super League spot when they wasn't even the best side in the Championship last season, and lets not forget Private equity when he wanted to sell off the game on the cheap.Still allowing clubs with dumb's of grounds to stay in Super League. Letting clubs stay in Super League without academies.

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2 hours ago, yanto said:

THIS ☝️

Living in Europe the BBC and Streaming are the only way to watch live games.

I pay for the WatchNRL app, payed for the ###### Live RL app, pay for the Our League app yet its a few weeks since I sat down and watched a game live.

It used to be wall to wall NRL over the weekend but even that has gone bye the bye.

Even my local bar let me stream games on one of the TV`s whenever I wanted to. Beer and rugby nowt better 🙃

Last time I watched a game from the UK was Barrow v Town a couple weeks ago 

As for watching a SL game .......!!!!!!!

Strange after over 50 years being involved in the game and dissing union code I actually sat watched the Lions v SA at the weekend.

😬

Sadly people who were dyed in the wool Rugby League fans have been turned off the game by the inept RFL and their poor handling of it

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38 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

Correct,  it’s the short term thinking that *really* harms RL. So what if 100 people turn up on a freebie? 80 of them might buy a pie and a pint. 50 of them might come again. 25 of them might pay to get in next time. 12 of them might become dedicated fans.

But because it doesn’t happen in 2 weeks, RL clubs sack it and many existing RL fans then say ‘see? We told you nobody was interested’. 

If I was a CEO/general manager of a club I'd be pushing to budget for 1 free game a season , and try to fill the stadium on that day 

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On Monday 2 August Hull FC are at home to St Helens and Hull KR are at home to Catalans. That is, presuming Catalans don't become the 5th team running to pull out of a Rovers game due to COVID. And Saints decide they are in good enough health to resume their season.

Whatever how ridiculous is it for the Hull clubs to be playing massive games against the top 2 teams in Super League on the same night? And even more ridiculous for it to be on a MONDAY?

The Hull clubs did well prior to COVID with Football Club averaging over 10,000 and Kingston Rovers in excess of 8,000 but I don't think we are going to see anything like that on Monday. 

It almost seems as if things have been set up to MINIMISE the attendances.

 

 

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34 minutes ago, lucky 7 said:

It's shown in recent years SL and the RFL haven't a clue how to push the game forward.

Sponsorship deals being less even before covid. Crowds falling before covid. They didn't have a clue how to promote the CC Final before covid and giving out free tickets is not the answer. Giving Robert Elstone a huge salary and all he could could come with was Cutting the wolfpack and gifting Leigh a Super League spot when they wasn't even the best side in the Championship last season, and lets not forget Private equity when he wanted to sell off the game on the cheap.Still allowing clubs with dumb's of grounds to stay in Super League. Letting clubs stay in Super League without academies.

Last season the Championship didn't play 

The academy argument is very , very complicated , has been debated a hundred times and I get the impression you haven't a clue about them 

Other than that , crack on 

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Just now, Johnoco said:

Then beyond that….what? We’ve seen several examples of games with free attendance, it rarely amounts to anything if not backed up with something. 
It’s pointless letting everyone in free on 7th July and expecting things to change by the 14th. 

Yes , of course you ' back it up ' , data collect , free tickets through schools, community clubs and other sports organisations , it isn't realistic to just open doors these days 

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4 hours ago, THE RED ROOSTER said:

And I thought I was depressed....

Yes, the quality of Super League is not as good and there are few , if any star names in the game but consider these reasons.

Playing matches on top of each other and cramming the games in playing at odd days in the week. Rugby Leagues adminstrators never seem to understand - less is more. The economy may be growing at its fastest for 80 years but at lot of people have lost their jobs and money is tight so they will picjand choose when to attend.

The enforced COVID break has meant may former Season ticket holders have found something different to do. Yes posters like myself have had enough of the monkey business at my club but that's not the case elsewhere, so I do think familer have found other leisure activities, and need something from their club to lure them back.

The aging Rugby League fanbase is another factor, sadly the older the fanbase gets the more fans die of natural causes. This is why all sports seek to reinvent themselves in one way or another to entice the next generation of supporters, Unfortunately League has a habit of trying to turn the clock back not forward

Finally, media coverage, outside the M62, it is like the game has fallen off the proverbial cliff. In the Murdoch era when SKY had some Aussies who were also leaguies. The Murdoch press publicised the game. Now under COMCAST / NBC it does not. Not sure there is anything that can be done there.

 

 

Some excellent points there.

I put a post up the other day suggesting that the RFL look at cricket and what they have done regarding limited overs which gets asses on seats as it is entertaining and fast.I suggested a 9s format where I guess in theory at least if the ball is thrown out more and we see plenty of tries from both sides with fast flowing rugby it might just arouse interest. And I suggested a 60 minute game as opposed to 80 minutes with a double header ie the ladies game first then the men’s game of course with the same ticket being valid for both.

 And yes I suggested a franchise type competition like some County cricket clubs have with T20 where they call themselves Birmingham Bears but of course they are still part of Warwickshire CCC.

Now maybe all I have suggested might not be right but it is in my opinion time the game thinks outside of the box and is radical and bold because frankly the game here is dying a slow,painful death.

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7 hours ago, sweaty craiq said:

anything free has no value

Nobody has paid to read this opinion.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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10 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

Yes , of course you ' back it up ' , data collect , free tickets through schools, community clubs and other sports organisations , it isn't realistic to just open doors these days 

People are suggesting give out free tickets, how would It sit with season ticket holders who’ve paid full price for 2 years while hardly been allowed to go to any games, for others who have contributed nothing to be let in for free now restrictions have gone? 
You can market and sell your product without giving it away for free.

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14 hours ago, sweaty craiq said:

Giving tickets away can only ever be a short term policy, somebody must pay the players staff etc. The issue is after being let in for free you set the price expectations, you then charge a reasonable rate and its deemed too expensive. This has been the downfall of RL since SL started.

The quality of the entertainment (game) and the matchday experience are what matters.

 

 

I accept what you’re saying, but Barrow and Rochdale are at least getting people in, so they know there’s a RL club on their doorstep, especially important with kids as all we ever hear about is the ageing demographic. 

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2 minutes ago, Eddie said:

I accept what you’re saying, but Barrow and Rochdale are at least getting people in, so they know there’s a RL club on their doorstep, especially important with kids as all we ever hear about is the ageing demographic. 

Free admission is probably the right rate for many C1 games, OK a fiver at best.

Barrows fan base has held up pretty well in recent years especially when compared to other Cumbrian clubs - is it because Barrow is really in Lancashire?

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When we discuss these things I think we often get a bit too bogged down and critical of the detail. 

Free tickets can work as part of a sales/marketing strategy. Cheap tickets can work. Fanzones can work. and so on.

What doesn't work is doing nothing.

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Whilst this may not sound too ambitious, I think we are in a bit of damage limitation this year. We are clearly struggling getting games on, and we have some hesitancy from fans to return. I think we need to get through the year as best we can, maybe focus on the two major events on Magic and the Grand Final - and hopefully lead into a great World Cup. 

We then have the start of the new TV deal, which may involve a terrestrial deal, and certainly OurLeague coverage - I think that is a prime time for us to really re-launch the comp - then is the time for a few new innovations, all out promotion and making some noise. 

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I was wondering (and this might have been addressed, so apologies if so) - how easy is it to get a refund if the game is cancelled (or postponed) at short notice? If it was a pain, then that would put me off buying tickets at the minute.

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7 hours ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

People are suggesting give out free tickets, how would It sit with season ticket holders who’ve paid full price for 2 years while hardly been allowed to go to any games, for others who have contributed nothing to be let in for free now restrictions have gone? 
You can market and sell your product without giving it away for free.

Because I would announce it as such at the beginning of the season , that there would be one game a year when the club would attempt to hit the stadium capacity , and that would include people being offered the chance to attend for free , I would happily supply my work ( club ) phone number to discuss it with anybody who had an issue with it 

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8 hours ago, Griff said:

As you're determined to make yourself look foolish, it's because Gubrats' point, though less factually correct, is STILL more valid than yours.

Correct , thank you 

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22 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

Yeah it's generally a combination of things that complement each other. Things generally aren't successful in isolation.

It's the difference between having a strategy and tactical stuff. 

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3 hours ago, Dave T said:

It's the difference between having a strategy and tactical stuff. 

Full military history nerd alert (I don't know if you listen to we have ways), but that is a very good point. 

Most super league clubs, and RL as a whole, are pretty capable on what would be the "operational level". They generally get by each year. Given the resources available, they do ok. In fact, Wakey making it through each season is a triumph of sorts. It also includes things like shot clocks, reduced interchanges, and an about turn on Liverpool to go back to Newcastle for magic.

On the equivalent of the "strategic level" however, the entire sport seems witless 90% of the time. It is at this level where we feel the pinch and long term problems that are harder to combat emerge. Declining youth engagement, a general retreat of the game inwards, England playing only a handful of home games (if any games) in the space between 2 world cup cycles, 9s still not being a Commonwealth sport, let alone in the Olympics, declining top end crowds at club level, lower end brand involvement across the sport: these are just some of the problems a failure (or indeed an unwillingness) of the sport and key stakeholders to work effectively and continuously on the Strategic Level has left us with. 

Undoubtedly the operational/tactical level is important, Covid and the response has shown that. But Covid has also exacerbated and/or laid bare the failings to deal with big issues. In history an equivalent term would be "the audit of war" - and right now RLs audit is saying "must improve rapidly".

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In answer to the original question: "Are you worried about attendances?"

the answer is: Yes, very worried.

The game is clearly closing broadcast revenue, which is the lifeblood of any professional sports League. As such, it desperately has to make it up with matchday income, which is primarily going to come from paying spectators, and also from these supporters' additional game day spend. 

I honestly think the game is in real trouble in England and has to react quickly. The stereotypical Rugby League fan is a dying breed, and younger fans have huge amounts of competition for their £. I really feel that the game needs a dramatic shift in image on order to pull in some younger fans. It is seen as some kind of regional curiosity (by those who even know it exists) and is perceived as anything but aspirational. I am no marketing expert, but perhaps a campaign pitching the SuperLeague as an affordable alternative to English football (which is extremely expensive) could be one approach to take. The competition for people's leisure time and cash that exists these days means that once fans are gone, they are unlikely to return without an incentive.

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