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NRL postpone expansion


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38 minutes ago, The Great Dane said:

Aussie Rules is actively trying to expand it's market share basically everywhere in NSW, Qld, and the ACT. However they put more effort into some markets over others, and in Brisbane their main strategic targets have been Ipswich and South West Brisbane more generally.

The AFL and Lions are investing stupid amounts of money into juniors in Ipswich, they are investing heavily in property in Ipswich and surrounds, are building state of the art training facilities in Springfield, etc, etc. If the NRL expanding in Brisbane was really about combating the AFL's growth in Brisbane then they'd be taking the fight to them in those regions, not wasting a license on a team in Morton Bay with low growth potential.

Of course it's never actually been about combating the AFL's growth, and 99% of the AFL's growth has come in markets without direct representation in the AFL anyway, i.e. it's a war in the grassroots and the AFL are winning because their grassroots are way better organised and funded than the NRL's.

There have been a large number of southerners move north for years thus the increase in numbers.

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2 hours ago, The Great Dane said:

You are making the exact same mistake you were making before of assuming that because gambling is legal and controlled, and thus better monitored with more reliable data in Australia, that that means it's more prevalent in Australia than in other nations. It's not particularly more prevalent in Australia, it's just way easier to collect data on something that is legal than illegal.

Your 20% of the worlds pokies stat is utterly meaningless as well. No #### Australia has more pokies than your average nation, they are way more tightly controlled or illegal in most other nations, but that doesn't mean that gambling isn't happening in other nations, only that it's happening in other ways or on the black market in other nations where it's uncontrolled and as such is hard to track.

You're ignoring my greater point anyway; prohibition doesn't work and has universally made things worse when it's been enforced. So even if you got what you want you wouldn't get rid of the demand for gambling and all you would achieve is to create a gap in the market that organised crime would fill, which would only make gambling more dangerous for everyone involved.

I think you just need to come to terms with the fact that not only do you not have any real power over people to prevent them from doing what they want to do, but that it's also none your business, and as such you should learn to live and let live instead of pushing authoritarian ###### that doesn't even work.

Mate, I hate to break it to you, but when gambling goes underground most of the population doesn't even notice it. It's an industry that needs visibility to be successful. You can see what happens when it goes from invisible and/or very small scale to visible by watching what's going on in several US states now.

Thankfully, Australia is, clearly, full of suckers.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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55 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Mate, I hate to break it to you, but when gambling goes underground most of the population doesn't even notice it. It's an industry that needs visibility to be successful. You can see what happens when it goes from invisible and/or very small scale to visible by watching what's going on in several US states now.

Thankfully, Australia is, clearly, full of suckers.

LOL.

Just because you are ignorant of it doesn't mean it isn't happening. I mean be real now, did drugs going underground result in most of the population not noticing it!? Or are people lighting up and popping pingers on every street FFS!

Illegal gambling is/was rife in the US, most of it is/was situated around illegal casinos/high stakes games, racing and sports betting, dog and #### fighting, and the Numbers game or 'Italian lottery' (look it up), and gang wars were/are regularly fought over control of the market alongside drugs, people trafficking, and alcohol back in the 1920s.

A cursory look through any history of gambling in the US will show you that, and you can find all sorts of horrific stories of what happened to people whom couldn't pay their debts (of which there are many). It's not really much different to how things were pre-widespread legalisation and ease of access to gambling in Australia honestly, and I imagine (though I don't claim to be an expert) that the same is/was true of the UK.

And who are the real suckers; the people whom allow it to occur in the sunlight so they can head off as many of the problems it causes as possible, and make stacks of cash in taxes off it in the process, or the dumb pricks whom pretend it doesn't exist and let organised crime, whom don't care about the societal harm they cause, takeover the market?

Edited by The Great Dane
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28 minutes ago, The Great Dane said:

LOL.

Just because you are ignorant of it doesn't mean it isn't happening. I mean be real now, did drugs going underground result in most of the population not noticing it!? Or are people lighting up and popping pingers on every street FFS!

Illegal gambling is/was rife in the US, most of it is/was situated around illegal casinos/high stakes games, racing and sports betting, dog and #### fighting, and the Numbers game or 'Italian lottery' (look it up), and gang wars were/are regularly fought over control of the market alongside drugs, people trafficking, and alcohol back in the 1920s.

A cursory look through any history of gambling in the US will show you that, and you can find all sorts of horrific stories of what happened to people whom couldn't pay their debts (of which there are many). It's not really much different to how things were pre-widespread legalisation and ease of access to gambling in Australia honestly, and I imagine (though I don't claim to be an expert) that the same is/was true of the UK.

And who are the real suckers; the people whom allow it to occur in the sunlight so they can head off as many of the problems it causes as possible, and make stacks of cash in taxes off it in the process, or the dumb pricks whom pretend it doesn't exist and let organised crime, whom don't care about the societal harm they cause, takeover the market?

Lot of words there.

Illegal gambling is significantly smaller than legal gambling. It is certainly more dangerous for those involved but it is smaller.

Even the most ubiquitous illegal drug is less common than legal drugs. Their impact may be greater but their spread is not. That’s just how it works.

Australia has a pretty much unique gambling addiction. 

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Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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3 hours ago, The Great Dane said:

Aussie Rules is actively trying to expand it's market share basically everywhere in NSW, Qld, and the ACT. However they put more effort into some markets over others, and in Brisbane their main strategic targets have been Ipswich and South West Brisbane more generally.

The AFL and Lions are investing stupid amounts of money into juniors in Ipswich, they are investing heavily in property in Ipswich and surrounds, are building state of the art training facilities in Springfield, etc, etc. If the NRL expanding in Brisbane was really about combating the AFL's growth in Brisbane then they'd be taking the fight to them in those regions, not wasting a license on a team in Morton Bay with low growth potential.

Of course it's never actually been about combating the AFL's growth, and 99% of the AFL's growth has come in markets without direct representation in the AFL anyway, i.e. it's a war in the grassroots and the AFL are winning because their grassroots are way better organised and funded than the NRL's.

Lets not forget Birchgrove oval LOL

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14 hours ago, The Great Dane said:

The AFL has never seriously tried to expand their footprint outside of Australia either.

It'd be very expensive, which is what has probably turned them off when they've toyed with the idea in the past, but I have no doubt that if they really wanted to they could expand their footprint overseas.

Yeah I’m sure they’d be a few expat Aussies that would love a Sunday afternoon kick about in Hyde Park.

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1 hour ago, The Great Dane said:

I haven't missed your point at all, you just can't defend it in the face of reasoned opposition.

It’s very hard to defend advertising gambling during family TV entertainment (NRL, AFL etc) and the flow through consequences of that …. but if you’re happy to do that, go for your life and I’ll let you rant unopposed for as long and as vigorously as you want.

As an old guy in Java said to me “Argue with a monkey once, you’re forgiven. Argue with a monkey twice, you become a monkey”

Edited by Copa
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16 hours ago, DC77 said:

It’s got nowt to do with lack of appeal. Australia didn’t have an Empire to spread its game like the Brits did to its outposts. RL (plus RU and cricket) are British commonwealth sports (southwest France being the exception w/ both rugby codes played outside British dominion). Had the roles been reversed and there was an Aussie Empire sending Aussies to Blighty there’s a high chance Aussie Rules would be played here.

I must read up on my history again as i didn't think Brazil and Argentina were part of the British empire with it's soccer presence there. Thanks for enlightening me LOL.

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9 minutes ago, lucky 7 said:

I must read up on my history again as i didn't think Brazil and Argentina were part of the British empire with it's soccer presence there. Thanks for enlightening me LOL.

I would have a read if I were you. Argentina was (though both sides have an interest in playing it down) well within the British sphere of influence - Britain built all the railways, controlled most of the large companies, set up the sports clubs. There's a man down my street who was of the last generation of British children to grow up (in the 40s and 50s) in what was a large financial/agricultural/technical British expat community there. 

It's the reason they've got a Hurlingham Club, and play polo and football. Similar in Brazil (to a lesser extent) but absolutely Argentina. Histories of the British Empire usually have a chapter on 'Britain's empire in South America'

Argentina, and you could probably start a massive fight by saying this but it's true, was about one down from being a British Protectorate. It only didn't need to be a Protectorate because it had it's own functioning government and it suited everybody to keep it informal.

Edited by iffleyox
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18 minutes ago, lucky 7 said:

Or Clapham common, where the UK AFL is held LOL.

Aye, I've a friend via work who plays for the London Swans.

It's competitive but no one is going to pretend it's anything other than a social kickabout for a few ex-pat aussies and some Londoners who live near where the handful of clubs play.

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Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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21 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Aye, I've a friend via work who plays for the London Swans.

It's competitive but no one is going to pretend it's anything other than a social kickabout for a few ex-pat aussies and some Londoners who live near where the handful of clubs play.

It's been suggested by people in Australia that one of the reasons it hasn't moved to any extent to other countries is because in Australia they get taxpayers money to prop it up in some areas, but can't overseas. They played some competition AFL games in New Zealand, but when they didn't get any taxpayers money they pulled the plug on it. Look what happened when they tried to claim junior playing numbers so they could get Taxpayers money for junior playing numbers for Birchwood grove and got badly exposed and had to revise their junior playing numbers down by about 2/3rds

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/afl-accused-of-exploiting-figures-20120723-22knq.html

Edited by lucky 7
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