GUBRATS Posted July 30, 2021 Share Posted July 30, 2021 13 minutes ago, The Future is League said: I say again. We are a rudderless ship and have been for some time. Not offering any Support to Toronto which in my opinion could have opened up the possibility and note i say possibility of getting a foothold in the most lucrative sports market in the world and the decision to replace them with Leigh. Lets not forget the waste of space Robert Elstone who come up with the idea of replacing Toronto with Leigh and how many millions did he cost the game and lets not forget the idea who wanted to prostitute the game to a private equity firm. The decision to ask the Catalans to pay a bond to enter the Challenge cup when they were the holders. Who came up with that idea. I also thought not letting Manchester Rangers enter league 1 was another own goal.I can go on but i need to lay down in a darken room and calm down Once again , Leigh didn't ' replace ' Toronto , they applied along with several other clubs to ' bail out ' SL , and enable the magic weekend ( which might end up not happening given the way things are going ) Rest of your post , I pretty much agree with Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM2010 Posted July 30, 2021 Share Posted July 30, 2021 6 minutes ago, GeordieSaint said: That's not what the article says. Still refers to part time clubs in "SL2". Fundamental issue right there... So basically just getting rid of clubs so the money doesn't have to spread as thin. It's like they're just trying to accelerate the death off the professional game. I'm assuming they'll still be wanting close to 30 games per year so play 9 other teams 3 times. I like my RL but not much variety there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted July 30, 2021 Share Posted July 30, 2021 37 minutes ago, Barley Mow said: As I read it, they'll relegate 6 with 2 replaced by promoted teams. Seriously? So teams 1-8 + teams 15 and 16 are in the top division in 2023? Or are we talking about two equal conferences? "We'll sell you a seat .... but you'll only need the edge of it!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM2010 Posted July 30, 2021 Share Posted July 30, 2021 I was being tongue in cheek Gubby but that's the only way this new format would sit right with me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Future is League Posted July 30, 2021 Share Posted July 30, 2021 3 minutes ago, GUBRATS said: Once again , Leigh didn't ' replace ' Toronto , they applied along with several other clubs to ' bail out ' SL , and enable the magic weekend ( which might end up not happening given the way things are going ) Rest of your post , I pretty much agree with Who did Leigh replace in Super League then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM2010 Posted July 30, 2021 Share Posted July 30, 2021 1 minute ago, The Future is League said: Who did Leigh replace in Super League then? They didn't replace anyone. They applied for the spare 12th place after Toronto had already been kicked out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted July 30, 2021 Share Posted July 30, 2021 29 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said: Full houses are draws. 6000 at York looks good on TV as they are in an 8000 stadium. At Huddersfield it looks ######. Are you proposing Huddersfield (and Wigan) get kicked out of SL because they have to play in big grounds, and replace them with York and Batley? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toby Chopra Posted July 30, 2021 Share Posted July 30, 2021 32 minutes ago, GeordieSaint said: Leadership, leadership, leadership. We have a thread on that and Rimmer. The sport in England/NH needs to make some hard choices. Not reinventing the same wheel expecting different results. I don't really blame Rimmer. The clubs control the RFL, it's basically a private members club, not a governing body in the traditional sense. Decisions are always just a reflection of how the 30-odd votes fall, he can't work beyond that reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Blues Ox Posted July 30, 2021 Share Posted July 30, 2021 I like it. Its going to offer a bit of excitment this season and a bit of excitment next season then in a couple of seasons time we can plan another restructure when everyone sees how boring having 10 teams in a division is. Interesting how they would do promotion from the Championship this year as plans seem to be already in place for a play off series. Do they automatically promote the top team and rejig the playoffs, obviously totally unfair on Fev as if Toulouse win this weekend they won't play many more games and will top the division, or do they stick to the 6 team playoff format that is already set in which case it puts a lot of pressure on both Toulouse and Fev and gives the other teams a fantastic opportunity to get in to SL by only having to beat 1 top team. The following season we have the relegation excitment as teams scramble to avoid the last relegation spot and the same in the Championship as teams fight for the top 6. Its a really easy sell to Sky but then just gets a bit rubbish after that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiganermike Posted July 30, 2021 Share Posted July 30, 2021 5 minutes ago, Griff said: Seriously? So teams 1-8 + teams 15 and 16 are in the top division in 2023? Or are we talking about two equal conferences? No, he was mistaken. The article mentions a 14 team SL in 2022 with the bottom 4 relegated. In the Championship in 2022 nobody is promoted, the top 6 stay in the second tier supplemented by the relegated 4 from SL. The teams below 6th in the Championship are relegated into League 1. It looks to be two tiered divisions rather than equal conferences. The article does mention other proposals having been made but details aren't given about those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bedfordshire Bronco Posted July 30, 2021 Share Posted July 30, 2021 42 minutes ago, JM2010 said: Is this a case of self interest taking over again? Less Sky money so divide it by less clubs. Reducing the amount of clubs just retracts the game's footprint and loses fans. I think it's very obvious that is happening If it goes to 10 teams it will be boring and repetitive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hela Wigmen Posted July 30, 2021 Author Share Posted July 30, 2021 2 hours ago, David Dockhouse Host said: Diminishing returns, when 12 teams aren't strong enough go to 19 and so on. No business increases by reducing its numbers. We cannot develop players or keep youth in the game if they have fewer opportunities. 14 is absolutely the right decision, the only reason it's 12 is you get 1/12 of the money rather than 1/14th. The problem is you can have a bigger slice of a smaller pie, it's still less overall You’re watering down an already weak product by extending the competition to fourteen and addressing no issues bar removal of loop fixtures. Stadia, academy pathways, player pool, the monotony of too many average quality games that are totally meaningless, sponsorship etc are all not addressed. It would be a woeful move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeordieSaint Posted July 30, 2021 Share Posted July 30, 2021 Changing structures... again... and again... and again. Yet the changes never make the game more attractive. Why is that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hela Wigmen Posted July 30, 2021 Author Share Posted July 30, 2021 20 league games max with a ten team league would be absolutely perfect. Anything more is overkill and harms the international game. Some hard choices needed and some clubs simply need cutting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damien Posted July 30, 2021 Share Posted July 30, 2021 10 minutes ago, GeordieSaint said: Changing structures... again... and again... and again. Yet the changes never make the game more attractive. Why is that? Because fundamentally nothing changes. It's rearranging deckchairs on the Titanic type stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redjonn Posted July 30, 2021 Share Posted July 30, 2021 14 minutes ago, GeordieSaint said: Changing structures... again... and again... and again. Yet the changes never make the game more attractive. Why is that? One could argue because the fundemental problem is not able to keep some of the best players the league produces - the salary cap being an issue. That salary cap because limited money in the sport. So the starting point surely has to be how to keep more of the better players, which means more money, that can only be achieved by limiting the number of clubs that share the TV money... until some clubs are able to generate more revenue (say using Leeds as an example). So where does the sport here start... I note that the commentary has been around one proposal when the article says other proposals were made. On this forum you would never get a consensus, just like to accuse the clubs of, we have self interest in the teams we support, we have different opinions... It does amuse me seeing the accusations when its exactly what many do in their comments. At the end of the day we have to strip back and identify the core issue... that means in my mind to make radical change more money has to go to less clubs as a starting point. With the aim that it acts as a catalyst to grow the sport here to fund all and sundry what people suggest we should be doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeordieSaint Posted July 30, 2021 Share Posted July 30, 2021 11 minutes ago, Damien said: Because fundamentally nothing changes. It's rearranging deckchairs on the Titanic type stuff. As the structure is not the issue. It's standards. As RedJohn puts it; not enough quality players. But players for me isn't the sole standards issue. It's the quality of some of the clubs... how they are structured. How their businesses run. How they are funded. Their aspirations. Their links to the community game etc etc. For me, the fundamental issue is driving for up standards; and holding those who don't meet their standards to account. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColD Posted July 30, 2021 Share Posted July 30, 2021 1 hour ago, NW10LDN said: All 3 Cumbria clubs potentially gone under that plan. So much for caring about the game in the North. Or the south, not sure London would make the 20 based on on field performance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damien Posted July 30, 2021 Share Posted July 30, 2021 2 minutes ago, GeordieSaint said: As the structure is not the issue. It's standards. As RedJohn puts it; not enough quality players. But players for me isn't the sole standards issue. It's the quality of some of the clubs... how they are structured. How their businesses run. How they are funded. Their aspirations. Their links to the community game etc etc. For me, the fundamental issue is driving for up standards; and holding those who don't meet their standards to account. Standards is a big one and I mean standards in every aspect of the top flight game. From a club point of view things like academies, reserve teams, minimum spends, social media, websites, never mind the ground aspects. The list goes on. Also standards in the running of the game and getting the message out there online. Even things like refereeing and little things like playing the ball correctly. There is just so much about the game that is downright shoddy and unprofessional for a sport getting circa £30 million a year from Sky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
del capo Posted July 30, 2021 Share Posted July 30, 2021 1 hour ago, Barley Mow said: Not gone, but with little or no central funding in a 16 team league 1 below the 2 tier super league as I understand it. I read it that way as well. It seems that the top 20 will share the pot more evenly than as now. League 1 ( still Tier 3 ) is likely to get nothing. But they've known about that for at least 2 years and have hopefully been planning their futures. 16 clubs will have to rely on their own resources to fund a 34 game league season ( unless they adopt a ladder system ) pay wages where they can and travel the length of the country. Tough ask for some. The Community game has thus far not been consulted on helping out despite those comments about a 'whole game approach '. The NCL club requirements are alien to and frankly beyond most of Tier 3. However I expect that the Southern Conference like the NCL also Tier 4 but crucially owned by the RFL and more in tune with those League 1 clubs likely to struggle, could accommodate.....and become stronger for it. My glass is still just about half full rather than half empty...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mumby Magic Posted July 30, 2021 Share Posted July 30, 2021 38 minutes ago, Hela Wigmen said: 20 league games max with a ten team league would be absolutely perfect. Anything more is overkill and harms the international game. Some hard choices needed and some clubs simply need cutting. How about 12 teams play each other twice and Magic Weekend? Frees up time for Internationals. Now if only we had a 12 team SL.............. Like poor jokes? Thejoketeller@mullymessiah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gittinsfan Posted July 30, 2021 Share Posted July 30, 2021 If any of Widnes Bradford York Newcastle London or Halifax don't make top 6 in 2022.Do you really think they will be condemned to tier 3. Dream on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
del capo Posted July 30, 2021 Share Posted July 30, 2021 8 minutes ago, del capo said: I read it that way as well. It seems that the top 20 will share the pot more evenly than as now. League 1 ( still Tier 3 ) is likely to get nothing. But they've known about that for at least 2 years and have hopefully been planning their futures. 16 clubs will have to rely on their own resources to fund a 34 game league season ( unless they adopt a ladder system ) pay wages where they can and travel the length of the country. Tough ask for some. The Community game has thus far not been consulted on helping out despite those comments about a 'whole game approach '. The NCL club requirements are alien to and frankly beyond most of Tier 3. However I expect that the Southern Conference like the NCL also Tier 4 but crucially owned by the RFL and more in tune with those League 1 clubs likely to struggle, could accommodate.....and become stronger for it. My glass is still just about half full rather than half empty...... Typo . Sorry. Should read 30 league games.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
del capo Posted July 30, 2021 Share Posted July 30, 2021 13 minutes ago, gittinsfan said: If any of Widnes Bradford York Newcastle London or Halifax don't make top 6 in 2022.Do you really think they will be condemned to tier 3. Dream on. I presume you have already promoted Toulouse and Fev. to the 14 so yes. If those six can't make the top six of what's left they don't deserve to be there. No detail of P and R yet. I hope it's 2 up 2 down throughout. So if any miss out they should be certs for 2023.. You say ' dream on '. The voting structure at the RFL Council is such that if SL and enough Championship clubs want it , it will pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gittinsfan Posted July 30, 2021 Share Posted July 30, 2021 12 minutes ago, del capo said: I presume you have already promoted Toulouse and Fev. to the 14 so yes. If those six can't make the top six of what's left they don't deserve to be there. No detail of P and R yet. I hope it's 2 up 2 down throughout. So if any miss out they should be certs for 2023.. You say ' dream on '. The voting structure at the RFL Council is such that if SL and enough Championship clubs want it , it will pass. A lot of people were tipping York and Newcastle for top 6 this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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