GUBRATS Posted July 30, 2021 Share Posted July 30, 2021 Massive gamble IMO , doesn't solve the issues , in fact I don't think any structure will , we need all our clubs to learn how to make more income individually and collectively , we need to somehow create an International structure , without it would seem the Aussie's and Kiwi's , that is where the big money will come from , club wise it won't happen Club RL in this country is survival , growth can only come from the International game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugbyleaguesupporter Posted July 30, 2021 Share Posted July 30, 2021 10 team SL would surely be play each other team 3 times- 13H, 13A and magic. SL2 would be 13H, 13A and Bash or less games so 9H, 9A and a few loop. League 1 would be 20 games tops- clubs can't afford many more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Daddy Posted July 30, 2021 Share Posted July 30, 2021 I'm not in favour of anything that would lead to a 2x10 league system, this is just another bad idea designed to keep the same few clubs afloat and deal with the ever decreasing TV money received from Sky which is the result of poor management. It doesn't address the core issues that RL faces in the UK which is largely: - The lack of national profile of RL, it's clubs and it's competitions, small profile of the England team and international scene This is the definition of small time thinking as if the only thing that matters is giving clubs that are mismanaged a continual lifeline. A large part of the problem is that most SL clubs are too dependent solely on TV money and have no additional, alternative means of income. This sounds harsh but we should be proceeding with a 12 team league with the medium term aim of increasing to 14 teams for the long term, any club that cannot survive on those terms should be allowed to perish or be demoted. A licensing process will allow for a process of scrutinising each potential SL club to assess whether their business is sustainable in an environment where there is reduced SKY money. That means, instead of changing the league system to suit clubs struggling to maintain professionalism and their SL place we need to flip the script and only permit clubs across the leagues to play in SL that have a robust, durable and sustainable business that can survive in the current harsher conditions. If that means they are demoted from SL so be it, we're leveling down the broader vision of SL to suit weak clubs and the only result of this will be a return to this same discussion again as I said will happen when the 8s were introduced, only next time around the pie will be much smaller. The clubs and RFL are not learning the lessons that need to be learnt. This is a bad idea, it gets a thumbs down from me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Daddy Posted July 30, 2021 Share Posted July 30, 2021 24 minutes ago, Rugbyleaguesupporter said: 10 team SL would surely be play each other team 3 times- 13H, 13A and magic. SL2 would be 13H, 13A and Bash or less games so 9H, 9A and a few loop. League 1 would be 20 games tops- clubs can't afford many more and that's another negative of a league of ten.... more loop fixtures. Are these club chairmen not listening to what people are saying? Do they not see what is happening? This whole restructure is purely about their own clubs survival and not the good of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Ringo Posted July 30, 2021 Share Posted July 30, 2021 I've not read all through the thread but if it is to be a 16 team 3rd tier with 8 from the championship and 8 from L1 then where do the 2 proposed North American teams fit in? Or do 4 teams get cut off from L1 to allow them in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liverpool Rover Posted July 30, 2021 Share Posted July 30, 2021 If they go ahead with the increasing to 14 followed by reducing to 10 then the promoted teams are pretty much doomed before the season starts unless they really strike lucky with their recruiting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robthegasman Posted July 30, 2021 Share Posted July 30, 2021 Coming into this thread late,I see that 2 division Super League of 10 clubs has been talked about rather as I thought. My questions are what is the criteria going to be for which clubs go into which division? And if we are going down this route then what happens to the clubs that don’t make the final cut? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 30, 2021 Share Posted July 30, 2021 No benefit to a 10 team league. At least you get 22 games with a 12 team league. Decent season for all clubs. Keep it at 12 and put strict requirements on clubs. Academies, long term growth plans, etc. This will hurt the Broncos but the game has no hope in the capital when most of the city has no community clubs. Put it this way. Gaelic football, a sport played only by Irish, has more underage clubs in London than rugby league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liverpool Rover Posted July 31, 2021 Share Posted July 31, 2021 Broadcasters have barely shown any interest in the second tier over the years and changing the name to SL2 isn’t going to change that and it isn’t going to make clubs see it as a worthwhile competition in its own right. Dropping to 10 teams looks yet again to me to show a complete lack of vision and ambition to grow Super League. I know that the lack of money in the game is a barrier but it looks to me like they are not even trying and if they go to 10 teams I doubt there will ever be any appetite to go back to 12. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wellsy4HullFC Posted July 31, 2021 Share Posted July 31, 2021 Calling the Championship "SL2" isn't going to make a difference. All that we're doing is shrinking the SL. This sport is going absolutely no where. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nadera78 Posted July 31, 2021 Share Posted July 31, 2021 So, essentially the proposal is that to deal with the reduced TV income the money (not to mention players, sponsors, investors, etc) we do generate will be spread around 20 teams instead of 12? And that's supposed to be an intelligent use of greatly reduced resources? "Just as we had been Cathars, we were treizistes, men apart." Jean Roque, Calendrier-revue du Racing-Club Albigeois, 1958-1959 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nadera78 Posted July 31, 2021 Share Posted July 31, 2021 3 hours ago, Liverpool Rover said: Broadcasters have barely shown any interest in the second tier over the years and changing the name to SL2 isn’t going to change that and it isn’t going to make clubs see it as a worthwhile competition in its own right. Dropping to 10 teams looks yet again to me to show a complete lack of vision and ambition to grow Super League. I know that the lack of money in the game is a barrier but it looks to me like they are not even trying and if they go to 10 teams I doubt there will ever be any appetite to go back to 12. No-one has never paid a penny for the broadcast rights for tier 2 RL going right the way back to the old Northern Ford Premiership reverting to a winter season in the late 90s. They were ignored for years, then Sky took them at a cost basis, followed by Premier Sports, then back to Sky again. They're worthless, always have been always will be. Honestly, the broadcast rights for our flagship competition have just fallen by 25% so why anybody in their right mind thinks tier 2 RL is worth anything is beyond me. "Just as we had been Cathars, we were treizistes, men apart." Jean Roque, Calendrier-revue du Racing-Club Albigeois, 1958-1959 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Future is League Posted July 31, 2021 Share Posted July 31, 2021 11 hours ago, JM2010 said: They didn't replace anyone. They applied for the spare 12th place after Toronto had already been kicked out So they replaced Toronto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM2010 Posted July 31, 2021 Share Posted July 31, 2021 4 minutes ago, The Future is League said: So they replaced Toronto You have your views and I have mine. Let's move on from it now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Future is League Posted July 31, 2021 Share Posted July 31, 2021 4 minutes ago, JM2010 said: You have your views and I have mine. Let's move on from it now Indeed, but we can't deny facts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave T Posted July 31, 2021 Share Posted July 31, 2021 11 hours ago, ShropshireBull said: Full houses are draws. 6000 at York looks good on TV as they are in an 8000 stadium. At Huddersfield it looks ######. I don't disagree with other reasoning on why York could be a good choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeordieSaint Posted July 31, 2021 Share Posted July 31, 2021 11 hours ago, Damien said: Standards is a big one and I mean standards in every aspect of the top flight game. From a club point of view things like academies, reserve teams, minimum spends, social media, websites, never mind the ground aspects. The list goes on. Also standards in the running of the game and getting the message out there online. Even things like refereeing and little things like playing the ball correctly. There is just so much about the game that is downright shoddy and unprofessional for a sport getting circa £30 million a year from Sky. You are right; I'd be thinking solely from a club perspective but standards across thr board including the governing body, application of laws etc are of such importance. The sport needs to be bold; from top to bottom. But that doesn't mean restructuring leagues. It setting standards at all levels, including the governance level, and enforcing them... rigorously. You can still keep P&R. You can embed a proper international structure within the season. Just enforce it properly... to drive up standards. You'll have a better product/game/sport for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Man of Kent Posted July 31, 2021 Share Posted July 31, 2021 I don’t mind the ‘SL1 and SL2’ idea. It’ll make both divisions more competitive and raise standards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Dockhouse Host Posted July 31, 2021 Share Posted July 31, 2021 11 hours ago, Hela Wigmen said: You’re watering down an already weak product by extending the competition to fourteen and addressing no issues bar removal of loop fixtures. Stadia, academy pathways, player pool, the monotony of too many average quality games that are totally meaningless, sponsorship etc are all not addressed. It would be a woeful move. My post was about the number of teams, not about stadiums and academy ect. Those are different topics and need addressing but not directly impacted by this, the academy process has just played out separately. Watering down the product- we could go to 8 teams, wouldn't that be better? Better standard of games? I enjoy watching RL at all levels and ages. I can enjoy championship games more than SL, I enjoy local amatuer games, these can be great to watch and engaging for the fans. The argument is standard is therefore a red herring for me, if I'm supporting a team I want them to win, I get emotionally involved in the game, I support the players I want them to do well, if they are not as good as NRL players it doesn't change any of that. By reducing teams to improve product your selling potential teams down the river with less hope of returning stronger. It's a business failure to do so. Meaningless games - no game is meaningless, players don't know the difference when on the pitch, it's a game of rugby you cannot be half hearted you have to go for it. Fans want their team to win, the only true way to have games with full meaning is a knock out cup competition. Any league structure will always have some games with apparent 'less' meaning, 8,12,16,22 teams will all have some games like this, looking to eliminate than is another red herring as your wasting effort and time chasing something that is inherent in any league structure. The product is simply a group of teams playing each other, many people overthink this assuming the structure is the reason we don't compete with NRL or premiership footy, not always helpful to compare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Dockhouse Host Posted July 31, 2021 Share Posted July 31, 2021 4 minutes ago, Man of Kent said: I don’t mind the ‘SL1 and SL2’ idea. It’ll make both divisions more competitive and raise standards. I did suggest this 3 years ago which was mocked and I went away from the idea, 2 leagues if 10 would effectively increase the league to 20 teams rather than reduce to 10. Are both leagues full time? Money I imagine is the issue along with when the league splits, end of season or half way through? Another option is east and west leagues if 10 with an NFL style play offs, another idea I like but very radical and humiliating if it doesn't work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeordieSaint Posted July 31, 2021 Share Posted July 31, 2021 17 minutes ago, David Dockhouse Host said: I did suggest this 3 years ago which was mocked and I went away from the idea, 2 leagues if 10 would effectively increase the league to 20 teams rather than reduce to 10. Are both leagues full time? No. Quote from the article: "Crucially, the gulf in distribution money between the two competitions would be significantly reduced. It's hoped that will make promotion and relegation more sustainable for clubs moving between the two divisions, while also closing the funding gap for the part-time clubs that would be in the second-tier." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeordieSaint Posted July 31, 2021 Share Posted July 31, 2021 Just now, GeordieSaint said: No. Quote from the article: "Crucially, the gulf in distribution money between the two competitions would be significantly reduced. It's hoped that will make promotion and relegation more sustainable for clubs moving between the two divisions, while also closing the funding gap for the part-time clubs that would be in the second-tier." Too much; with too little. We are crying our for some real leadership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnM Posted July 31, 2021 Share Posted July 31, 2021 Sweaty Craig ? He was forecasting 2 x 10 years ago. The forum seems to be taking this press report as gospel and definitive. Is it on Wikileaks? Is the RFL trailing it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnM Posted July 31, 2021 Share Posted July 31, 2021 1 minute ago, GeordieSaint said: Too much; with too little. We are crying our for some real leadership. So this Great Leader of whom you talk? Mike Ashley? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiganermike Posted July 31, 2021 Share Posted July 31, 2021 9 hours ago, Johnny Ringo said: I've not read all through the thread but if it is to be a 16 team 3rd tier with 8 from the championship and 8 from L1 then where do the 2 proposed North American teams fit in? Or do 4 teams get cut off from L1 to allow them in? No clubs will be cut in order to get to the proposed structure. We currently have 12 in SL, 14 in Championship and 10 in League 1. Next season we will have 14 in SL, 12 in Championship and 10 in League 1 (no mention made of a change in P&R between Champ and L1 this year so I assume the number of teams in L1 will stay the same next year). The 16 teams in League 1 in 2023 will be the 10 that were there in 2022 plus the bottom 6 in the 2022 Championship. There has been no recent mention of plans to introduce Ottawa into our leagues still progressing (other than Eric Perez answering a question about it prior to the collapse of the NARL project. He said it was still in their plans to enter League 1 in addition to NARL) and no mention at all of a return for TWP so I don't think either will figure in the RFL/SL system earlier than 2024 if they ever do at all. Given the reluctance and resistance to TWP being accepted as part of the UK system I think they (NA clubs) would be better off establishing a semi pro comp in Canada/USA and building up in that way. Either that or join the USARL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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