League Restructure Thread (Merged Threads)

[Mumby Magic]

2 minutes ago, The Blues Ox said:

Aye would be a big problem if we actually made anything off our beer sales. We don't so it doesn't really matter.

There's hospitality for you. Or maybe increase the price as our cans are an extortionate £4.

[Damien]

5 minutes ago, The Blues Ox said:

Aye would be a big problem if we actually made anything off our beer sales. We don't so it doesn't really matter.

And that's another big issue many clubs face.

[redjonn]

On 31/07/2021 at 20:51, welshmagpie said:

More international rugby league is the answer to less fixtures. 

I would like to see international rugby at the top of the tree and played more regular. Never-the-less it isn't at the moment a huge revenue earner unless teams come from Southern Hemisphere.

Yes would love to have France up their challenging an England side but at the moment the home nations games whenever played have not been well attended and not sure big TV asset....

Its what you do until having the great international money earner and growing it assuming limited to NH, with occasional tour. Here I am assuming lack of interest from NRL clubs.

I just don't see the monies from internationals as we would expect now given lack of enthusiasm from NRL making up for the loss of money to SL clubs here.

We have to bridge the two...

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

27 minutes ago, Mumby Magic said:

There's hospitality for you. Or maybe increase the price as our cans are an extortionate £4.

Even at £400 a can/pint and selling several thousand I believe 'fax would still make £0.

[Mumby Magic]

9 minutes ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

Even at £400 a can/pint and selling several thousand I believe 'fax would still make £0.

Ah I get u.

[Tommygilf]

15 minutes ago, redjonn said:

I would like to see international rugby at the top of the tree and played more regular. Never-the-less it isn't at the moment a huge revenue earner unless teams come from Southern Hemisphere.

Yes would love to have France up their challenging an England side but at the moment the home nations games whenever played have not been well attended and not sure big TV asset....

Its what you do until having the great international money earner and growing it assuming limited to NH, with occasional tour. Here I am assuming lack of interest from NRL clubs.

I just don't see the monies from internationals as we would expect now given lack of enthusiasm from NRL making up for the loss of money to SL clubs here.

We have to bridge the two...

The fact Northern Hemisphere internationals aren't now an event we can monetise reliably is entirely a problem of us not fixing the roof while the Sun was shining.

The impetus for England needing competitive rivals not dependent on the NRL has never been greater yet our ability to invest in this growth has not been weaker for 25 years.

[redjonn]

1 minute ago, Tommygilf said:

The fact Northern Hemisphere internationals aren't now an event we can monetise reliably is entirely a problem of us not fixing the roof while the Sun was shining.

The impetus for England needing competitive rivals not dependent on the NRL has never been greater yet our ability to invest in this growth has not been weaker for 25 years.

I agree but my point was that the assumption that more internationals given the NRL reluctance will immediately provide an answer to whatever ills. Yes we want a strong NH international scene that broadcaster/sponsors will compete to finance and hence bring in profile and monies to the sport.  That will take time to grow from where we are.

In the meantime we have an immediate financial problem for the clubs.  The solution needs to be more pragmatic then some idealistic wish list that hasn't been their for a long time. 

 

[Damien]

9 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

The fact Northern Hemisphere internationals aren't now an event we can monetise reliably is entirely a problem of us not fixing the roof while the Sun was shining.

The impetus for England needing competitive rivals not dependent on the NRL has never been greater yet our ability to invest in this growth has not been weaker for 25 years.

I've said before but the last bumper TV deal was the golden opportunity to make a real difference to the game.  It should have allowed the game to make the pie bigger, diversify the offering and improve the product. Instead it was wasted.

[JM2010]

3 hours ago, Wakefield Ram said:

Shrinking the professional game further is the symptom. The cause is the game is shrinking from grass roots, junior, amateur to international. Having the same teams play each other even more often isn't going to solve anything nor is having no international calendar.

Unfortunately I agree. The drop in standards is due to the declining numbers of juniors playing the game.

The focus needs to be on expanding the junior game both in the heartlands and the areas such as Newcastle, London, Midlands, Wales etc. 

If the numbers of juniors playing the game increases then there should be more players coming through into the professional game which can then help fuel expansion

[steve oates]

3 hours ago, Man of Kent said:

True and that's because the reality is 12 clubs is too many for a 'Super' Super League, let alone 14.

I like your posts as they always seem to be fact based and it's a fact Superleague needs to run such that we have people who can pay good salaries to attract and develop good players and that means the rich club owners.

I wish there were 20 of them or even more. I wish we had twice as many quality players but we don't. We have about 10 strong clubs who can pay full cap and maybe pull in marquees on top. 

As for loop fixtures I wish they didn't exist, but a third Wigan.v.Saints or Hull.v.HKR certainly pulls in above average SL crowds and I'd guess the TV audience will be above average. Showing them London and Featherstone (with deep respect) "for a change" won't go down well and is it really a fact that people watch all games religiously, I don't think I've watched many "all three fixtures" between any two clubs in a season?

[Man of Kent]

25 minutes ago, steve oates said:

I wish there were 20 of them or even more. I wish we had twice as many quality players but we don't. We have about 10 strong clubs who can pay full cap and maybe pull in marquees on top. 

Aye, Steve, if we had 20 clubs willing and able to spend full cap, we wouldn’t be having this conversation.

But as we all know there aren’t enough 'Super' clubs in Super League and I can see why Sky & the RFL wants changes. 

[Griff]

18 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

Aye, Steve, if we had 20 clubs willing and able to spend full cap, we wouldn’t be having this conversation.

But as we all know there aren’t enough 'Super' clubs in Super League and I can see why Sky & the RFL wants changes. 

Spend full cap on whom?

[cookey]

The game is in the last chance saloon but even now I dont believe some of the clownswho run the clubs really believe it. Last chance to smell the coffee.

If you dont add anything to Super League,other than existing,go.

If you have pathetic inadequate facilities,go.

If you cant fill a quarter of your ground,go.

If your revenue is based on 15 match day games,go.

If geographically,you are next door to another club,go.

Frankly,that doesn't leave many but at least give someone elsea chance because the above clubs have failed.

Last chance,forget tradition,make the changes or say good bye to professional RL and to Sky and no one elsewill come in to save you,other than paying a few quid here and there.

[sweaty craiq]

Fact based - that is open to discussion.

When asking the question '' what do we need to do in order to become the best we can be?'' the same answers will come up.

1. Generate more income into the game 

2. Increase player pool

3. Create a regular international programme (again)

4. Support and develop the game in schools/Universities

 

Without 1 the rest dont happen!!

We need high quality and competitive Elite fixtures played in front of full houses with significant away support - why? Atmosphere and away support go hand in hand - they become part of the match day experience we must make better to get more fans through turnstyles and make the TV audience feel part of a great exciting event - the ooh's and aah's make a huge difference on TV.

We need to create a pathway for ambitious clubs to grow into and from, SL2 will be a highly competitive league that fans would look forward to and clubs can consolidate and grow from - from playing at Headingley in front of 15000 to playing at Swinton in front of 300 is a huge gap

We must build France as a real international force - I would have Cats, TO plus more in the 20. A 5/6 Nations with a strong France every Autumn would be a great event.

Playing numbers start at schools and even in the heartlands the game isnt played these days - we start with the low hanging fruit and work out. A realistic goal could be 100 development officers tasked with growing school number by 1m. Elite clubs should be supporting Universities with coaches, dieticians etc working with the development officers to raise RL's profile in this vital sector - they will be holding  tomorrows advertising/sponsorship budgets

Roll on 2 x 10 at long last

[sweaty craiq]

5 minutes ago, cookey said:

The game is in the last chance saloon but even now I dont believe some of the clownswho run the clubs really believe it. Last chance to smell the coffee.

If you dont add anything to Super League,other than existing,go. - all clubs could add something at sometime

If you have pathetic inadequate facilities,go. - agree

If you cant fill a quarter of your ground,go. - agree

If your revenue is based on 15 match day games,go. - agree

If geographically,you are next door to another club,go. - that wont leave many so who stays between Wigan/Saints and Wire?

Frankly,that doesn't leave many but at least give someone elsea chance because the above clubs have failed. - have they?

Last chance,forget tradition,make the changes or say good bye to professional RL and to Sky and no one elsewill come in to save you,other than paying a few quid here and there. - tradition doesnt pay bills but neither does ignoring tradition. The solution is Min salary spends not caps, backed up with any losses must be met that same year, not DR's

 

[David Dockhouse Host]

2 hours ago, steve oates said:

I like your posts as they always seem to be fact based and it's a fact Superleague needs to run such that we have people who can pay good salaries to attract and develop good players and that means the rich club owners.

I wish there were 20 of them or even more. I wish we had twice as many quality players but we don't. We have about 10 strong clubs who can pay full cap and maybe pull in marquees on top. 

As for loop fixtures I wish they didn't exist, but a third Wigan.v.Saints or Hull.v.HKR certainly pulls in above average SL crowds and I'd guess the TV audience will be above average. Showing them London and Featherstone (with deep respect) "for a change" won't go down well and is it really a fact that people watch all games religiously, I don't think I've watched many "all three fixtures" between any two clubs in a season?

I think we would have the quality players if there were more options at top level. You adapt to where you play, we need 10 years of 14 teams to allow the youth to grow into the opportunities, we won't develop enough for 14 teams if we only have 12 or 10

They also need to be paid a decent wage otherwise going players will and do seek other careers 

[LongbridgeH]

26 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

I´d say without 3 1 doesn´t happen. Internationals are when RL in northern hemisphere is leaving several million pounds on the table in commercial sponsors for nations and a tv tournament. 

Took the words out of my mouth. It’s just as much about awareness and that comes from the occasions of internationals 

[Tommygilf]

1 hour ago, redjonn said:

I agree but my point was that the assumption that more internationals given the NRL reluctance will immediately provide an answer to whatever ills. Yes we want a strong NH international scene that broadcaster/sponsors will compete to finance and hence bring in profile and monies to the sport.  That will take time to grow from where we are.

In the meantime we have an immediate financial problem for the clubs.  The solution needs to be more pragmatic then some idealistic wish list that hasn't been their for a long time. 

 

I wholeheartedly support more internationals but accept it will be difficult to make them financially successful in the short term (unless they are very savvy).

But doing nothing for decades because "they aren't really good enough" hasn't worked to make them good enough.

The immediate financial problem as I said is one almost entirely of our own making due to our self imposed fragility. If it wasn't covid, it would be sky cutting the TV deal that would have brought this about - remember the reports that in early 2020 their opening bid was half of the current deal per year? Regardless we have had money and it has been squandered on things that have not grown the game or its appeal. That should have been the focus as soon as the ink was dry on the last deal, now we're playing catchup.

[Tommygilf]

2 hours ago, Damien said:

I've said before but the last bumper TV deal was the golden opportunity to make a real difference to the game.  It should have allowed the game to make the pie bigger, diversify the offering and improve the product. Instead it was wasted.

Absolutely, instead we have done nothing significant to either justify an equal or increased amount in the next deal or invested the sums into strengthening the game in that time.

At least Wigan and Salford "improved" their badges though... won't Sky be impressed by this basic keeping up with the times principle.

[GUBRATS]

1 minute ago, Tommygilf said:

Absolutely, instead we have done nothing significant to either justify an equal or increased amount in the next deal or invested the sums into strengthening the game in that time.

At least Wigan and Salford improved their badges though...

You think so ?

[Tommygilf]

2 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

You think so ?

Edited for accuracy!

[Bearman]

In this edition of League Express Chris Jones writes.

" Sky Sports is the driving force behind the proposal by the RFL to reorganize Super league "

And there you have it. "He who pays the piper calls the tune".

Its no good complaining. They call the shots, we sold our sole and they have us by the goolies.

In the same article it says the RFL are looking for other opportunities to expand such as 9's. They will make it quicker, easier to understand and be a better spectacle. What it will not be is the game that we all fell in love with.

Let's rearrange the deck chairs.

 

 

 

 

[GUBRATS]

2 minutes ago, Bearman said:

In this edition of League Express Chris Jones writes.

" Sky Sports is the driving force behind the proposal by the RFL to reorganize Super league "

And there you have it. "He who pays the piper calls the tune".

Its no good complaining. They call the shots, we sold our sole and they have us by the goolies.

In the same article it says the RFL are looking for other opportunities to expand such as 9's. They will make it quicker, easier to understand and be a better spectacle. What it will not be is the game that we all fell in love with.

Let's rearrange the deck chairs.

 

 

 

 

So next year's magic will be a 9's festival at the LSV 

[steve oates]

46 minutes ago, David Dockhouse Host said:

I think we would have the quality players if there were more options ar too level. You adapt to where you play, we need 10 years of 14 teams to allow the youth to grow into the opportunities, we won't develop enough for 14 teams if we only have 12 or 10

Thanks for your reply David but I don't we have enough quality youth players who can grow into the "opportunities".

Every Superleague club makes sure they pick up half a team or more of ex-NRL players including the naughty ones, the lazy ones, the past it ones, the done something wrong and got chucked out ones.  Then they manage half a team of quality English players  after which the best young lads from their academies make up the numbers.

I can remember when there were no players coming from "down under" and we filled teams with English talent.....

[Tommygilf]

19 minutes ago, Bearman said:

In this edition of League Express Chris Jones writes.

" Sky Sports is the driving force behind the proposal by the RFL to reorganize Super league "

And there you have it. "He who pays the piper calls the tune".

Its no good complaining. They call the shots, we sold our sole and they have us by the goolies.

In the same article it says the RFL are looking for other opportunities to expand such as 9's. They will make it quicker, easier to understand and be a better spectacle. What it will not be is the game that we all fell in love with.

Let's rearrange the deck chairs.

I do think Sky are not as sympathetic as they once were. Long standing RL people in the organisation, Neville Smith, Eddie and Stevo are now all gone - as are the Murdochs at the top. Comcast don't care about a 30 year relationship if the product isn't delivering the interest (and therefore audience) they want for the price they are paying.

Under Elstone they did a review. I can't remember if it was something Sky did because they were asked to by Elstone or off their own backs. Nevertheless this highlighted what Sky saw as weaknesses in the product, weaknesses in the game and weaknesses in the individual clubs. This report has never been made public - but as an audit of the game (hoping that it is an honest appraisal) it is undoubtedly a resource that the RFL, SL and the clubs should at least be very considerate of. With their investment, Sky are the single largest stakeholder in the game.