League Restructure Thread (Merged Threads)

[David Dockhouse Host]

29 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Because nobody's interested in 9s 

That's the spirit 

[Tommygilf]

6 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

How would they react to no Australians in the Melbourne team ?

Plenty of Kiwis, Polynesians, Papuans etc who have played for Melbourne at any given time, and as highlighted by so many people so often, far far more of them than any Victorians.

[David Dockhouse Host]

29 minutes ago, wiganermike said:

The most recent iteration of a 9s tournament we had attracted very poor crowds partly as the clubs didn't take it particularly seriously and used mostly academy players. The danger is that if we replaced the Magic Weekend which is successful with a 9s competition without first assessing proof of concept, level of club buy-in, popularity and demand among the fanbase then we risk repeating that and destroying Magic Weekend as an event.

Very good points Mike, hard to assess proof of concept but certain checks could be made to see if clubs support it.

20/20 was laughed at initially, then when it came round with mass marketing and sold as quick cricket with a smile, it attracted a new audience leaving behind old fans (like me ) 

So it not being fully supported and not got a great history isn't affirmative proof it wouldn't work if sold and presented differently. 

One thing we can be sure of is more of the same will bring the same issues and results, we need to maintain what is good and innovate to grow.

If not 9s then what? 

 

[GUBRATS]

1 minute ago, Tommygilf said:

Plenty of Kiwis, Polynesians, Papuans etc who have played for Melbourne at any given time, and as highlighted by so many people so often, far far more of them than any Victorians.

I said NO Australians in the team , as in NO Canadians in the Toronto team , as in ' like for like ' comparisons 

[Scubby]

1 minute ago, GUBRATS said:

I said NO Australians in the team , as in NO Canadians in the Toronto team , as in ' like for like ' comparisons 

No it would be like an NFL London franchise with no British players in the team? Who would care?

[Tommygilf]

11 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

I said NO Australians in the team , as in NO Canadians in the Toronto team , as in ' like for like ' comparisons 

Odd that as it is not a like for like comparison at all given the 100 odd year history of professional RL in one of those countries but not the other.

A far closer comparison, as was suggested in an earlier post, is English players at London Broncos. A point which London are far stronger at developing locals than Melbourne, but are they better for it? 

[GUBRATS]

43 minutes ago, David Dockhouse Host said:

Very good points, hard to assess proof of concept but certain checks could be made to see if clubs support it.

20/20 was laughed at initially, then when it came round with mass marketing and sold as quick cricket with a smile it attracted a new audience leaving behind old fans (like me ) 

So it not being fully supported, not bad a great history isn't affirmative proof it wouldn't work if sold and presented differently. 

One thing we can be sure of is more of the same will bring the same issues and results, we need to maintain what is good and innovate to grow.

 

STOP comparing RL to cricket , even the shortest form of Cricket used to take 7/8 hours , even now the shortest form takes longer than a game of RL , it isn't about shortening the time it takes to play the game , it's about making it more interesting , more competitive , more unpredictable 

Christ on a bike

[Guest]

Don't think a 9s will be successful. Works in union because they use it to showcase the game in other countries.

Reducing the SL to 10 is just an admission of the sad state of League in England. We could potentially have 3 clubs from the same borough next year (Cas, Wakefield, Featherstone). All great clubs but not sustainable going forward.

[GUBRATS]

45 minutes ago, Scubby said:

No it would be like an NFL London franchise with no British players in the team? Who would care?

We don't know , because it's never happened 

[GUBRATS]

31 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Odd that as it is not a like for like comparison at all given the 100 odd year history of professional RL in one of those countries but not the other.

A far closer comparison, as was suggested in an earlier post, is English players at London Broncos. A point which London are far stronger at developing locals than Melbourne, but are they better for it? 

So you admit , there is no like for like comparison 

Give me 200 million over a decade and I'll make a success of a London based RL team , no problem , especially if I can cheat on the salary cap

[David Dockhouse Host]

3 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

STOP comparing RL to cricket , even the shortest form of Cricket used to take 7/8 hours , even now the shortest form takes longer than a game of RL , it isn't about shortening the time it takes to play the game , it's about making it more interesting , more competitive , more unpredictable 

Christ on a bike

3 minutes ago, NW10LDN said:

Don't think a 9s will be successful. Works in union because they use it to showcase the game in other countries.

 

Can we not use it to showcase the sport also? Isn't that what we want to do? 

Nobody is suggesting it replaces normal rugby, just an addition too for reasons such as promotion to new audiences

[GUBRATS]

1 hour ago, Smudger06 said:

Not see the World Cup Nines ? 

So an International 9s competition held in the most RL mad city in the world , containing large numbers of ex pat immigrants from the majority of the countries taking place , and they held it in a stadium half the size of the one being suggested we take our club 9s to ? 

Seriously ?

[GUBRATS]

1 minute ago, David Dockhouse Host said:

Can we not use it to showcase the sport also? Isn't that what we want to do? 

Nobody is suggesting it replaces normal rugby, just an addition too for reasons such as promotion to new audiences

But we wouldn't be promoting RL , we'd be promoting 9s , just as twenty/20 promotes twenty/20 , not one day or 4/5 day cricket 

7s rugby union bears no relation to a boring 80 minutes ( 110 if it's a SA v Lions brawl ) kickfest , hence why it has become a completely different sport with little if any overlap with the players 

[David Dockhouse Host]

2 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

But we wouldn't be promoting RL , we'd be promoting 9s , just as twenty/20 promotes twenty/20 , not one day or 4/5 day cricket 

7s rugby union bears no relation to a boring 80 minutes ( 110 if it's a SA v Lions brawl ) kickfest , hence why it has become a completely different sport with little if any overlap with the players 

If it worked as well as 20/20 and RU 7s then it would introduce new people to Rugby League, even if another version. We are not successful enough at raising our profile to dismiss something so easily because it isn't the same as what we already have. Any suggestion needs exploring to see if it can help meet our needs. If not fine but I firmly believe we need to be open minded and innovative, people dismissing thoughts, ideas without exploration is one reason we have struggled to grow.

I've said before I don't like 9s but I'm not the type of person we are trying to attract, I'm already here! I'm a fan of test cricket and don't like 20/20, but that's not the point, plenty people do particularly younger people.

Another risk is people slate it so much they then have a vested interest in its failure, willing it to fail so they can say "I told you so" the RFL/SL or whoever is rubbish.

If I was building a team to grow RL I would want positive engaging and innovative people who make the appropriate due diligence and remain optimistic but realistic. I am sure they would at least explore an idea such as 9s.

I realise you don't like the idea, what idea for promotion of RL and brining in new audiences do you support? 

[fighting irish]

3 minutes ago, David Dockhouse Host said:

If it worked as well as 20/20 and RU 7s then it would introduce new people to Rugby League, even if another version. We are not successful enough at raising our profile to dismiss something so easily because it isn't the same as what we already have. Any suggestion needs exploring to see if it can help meet our needs. If not fine but I firmly believe we need to be open minded and innovative, people dismissing thoughts, ideas without exploration is one reason we have struggled to grow.

I've said before I don't like 9s but I'm not the type of person we are trying to attract, I'm already here! I'm a fan of test cricket and don't like 20/20, but that's not the point, plenty people do particularly younger people.

Another risk is people slate it so much they then have a vested interest in its failure, willing it to fail so they can say "I told you so" the RFL/SL or whoever is rubbish.

If I was building a team to grow RL I would want positive engaging and innovative people who make the appropriate due diligence and remain optimistic but realistic. I am sure they would at least explore an idea such as 9s.

I realise you don't like the idea, what idea for promotion of RL and brining in new audiences do you support? 

Good luck, with your last line! LOL

[Tommygilf]

9s has some, quite limited, potential in the club game imo. We have to be realistic about what it can be though.

Tournaments/festivals in strategic areas and markets that otherwise would not see top flight RL should be where 9s can work. (In Union 7s for example it is in the areas where the event brings together the whole RU community because it is a top level event there are where it has the highest profile and success - USA or Hong Kong).

Even then, I wouldn't be expecting 30k a day to watch. Areas and markets applies to both geography and demographics though which means heartland event(s) should be possible too - but as you'd expect it would have a significant if not total focus on people who wouldn't usually turn up to an RL fixture in these places.

It also undoubtedly should be played in high summer/warm weather. Nothing worse than sitting in a freezing cold stadium watching a load of dropped balls.

9s festivals would open the opportunity for invitational sides to come in. They could reasonably be from wherever given the nature of the game - which opens its own possibilities.

The obvious benefit of RL9s over union 7s is that fundamentally it is still RL. Front rowers and other forwards can still play. It provides a platform therefore for players in these positions to play at a higher level in sides that otherwise would be annihilated at the elite level over 80 minutes.

[Padge]

Stop this obsession with nines, it is a pointless concept with no merit other than as a pre-season warm up that may make, or lose, a club a few bob.

 

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, David Dockhouse Host said:

If it worked as well as 20/20 and RU 7s then it would introduce new people to Rugby League, even if another version. We are not successful enough at raising our profile to dismiss something so easily because it isn't the same as what we already have. Any suggestion needs exploring to see if it can help meet our needs. If not fine but I firmly believe we need to be open minded and innovative, people dismissing thoughts, ideas without exploration is one reason we have struggled to grow.

I've said before I don't like 9s but I'm not the type of person we are trying to attract, I'm already here! I'm a fan of test cricket and don't like 20/20, but that's not the point, plenty people do particularly younger people.

Another risk is people slate it so much they then have a vested interest in its failure, willing it to fail so they can say "I told you so" the RFL/SL or whoever is rubbish.

If I was building a team to grow RL I would want positive engaging and innovative people who make the appropriate due diligence and remain optimistic but realistic. I am sure they would at least explore an idea such as 9s.

I realise you don't like the idea, what idea for promotion of RL and brining in new audiences do you support? 

Innovation to me is not 9s. Even the 7s has sort of faded away despite World Rugby (away with that name, jokers) to continue pushing it. It hasn't actually led to any noticeable improvement in weaker nations.

Innovation involves moving beyond the M62 corridor and building the sport in all parts of the country and beyond.

[GUBRATS]

3 minutes ago, David Dockhouse Host said:

If it worked as well as 20/20 and RU 7s then it would introduce new people to Rugby League, even if another version. We are not successful enough at raising our profile to dismiss something so easily because it isn't the same as what we already have. Any suggestion needs exploring to see if it can help meet our needs. If not fine but I firmly believe we need to be open minded and innovative, people dismissing thoughts, ideas without exploration is one reason we have struggled to grow.

I've said before I don't like 9s but I'm not the type of person we are trying to attract, I'm already here! I'm a fan of test cricket and don't like 20/20, but that's not the point, plenty people do particularly younger people.

Another risk is people slate it so much they then have a vested interest in its failure, willing it to fail so they can say "I told you so" the RFL/SL or whoever is rubbish.

If I was building a team to grow RL I would want positive engaging and innovative people who make the appropriate due diligence and remain optimistic but realistic. I am sure they would at least explore an idea such as 9s.

I realise you don't like the idea, what idea for promotion of RL and brining in new audiences do you support? 

9s has a place , just as 7s had a place , that was in developing new markets outside the countries that don't currently play the longer versions of the sport 

Football ( soccer ) can be played competitively by 2/3/4/5/6/7/8/9 ad infinitum , rugby is very different , and it is difficult to find 26 people willing to play what can be the hardest most physical team sport in existence , compared to football the rules and basic tactics and indeed skills are much more complicated ( union especially ) , so a shorter version makes it easier to get new countries to try to play ' Rugby ' , that isn't something we are trying to do , we are trying to get new ' watchers ' , improve the core sport , not pretend it's something else 

[redjonn]

4 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

So next year's magic will be a 9's festival at the LSV 

funny enough I'd go...

[GUBRATS]

3 minutes ago, redjonn said:

funny enough I'd go...

Me too

At the start of licencing I posted several idea's that I suggested the lower tiers needed to explore to find their way and survive/grow , one of them would have been an " Easyjet Cup " , played in northern Spain in late January , with Elite 1 clubs , not necessarily a 9s but a shortened time game , with whatever number of players was sensible , a 6/7 day tournament , it is in that sort of situation where a shortened version of the sport would be viable 

As Padge suggested , pre season warm up , with as others have suggested , invited expansion teams 

[Man of Kent]

If someone suggested RL clubs joined forces and formed regional mash-up 9s teams like West Yorkshire Tykes, Cumbria Lakers, Humber Eels, Merseyside Storm, France Revolution, Jamaica Bolts, Welsh Dragons, London Pride etc you’d be laughed at.

But that’s what cricket has done with The Hundred and it’s a hit. Would it be so mad to try it, with a view to having a cities circuit with the emphasis on having a good time in high summer, e.g Newcastle 9s at Kingston Park, Leeds 9s at Headingley and London 9s at Wimbledon? 

[GUBRATS]

29 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

Also makes it easier to build events.  A 9's tournament one of  the two mid season international weekends would be worth a go.  

Book a  snug stadium over Saturday and Sunday in London or Cardiff. Have 4 or 5 nations, chance for games to stay close.  Men and Womens. Finals on Sunday.  Make it an event with the mascots,  maybe a performer at the break. I prefer proper league but if it gets new eyeballs why not ?

Again , you are suggesting an International time filler for fans attending who are not there to support ' their ' club 

So maybe 

[GUBRATS]

3 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

If someone suggested RL clubs joined forces and formed regional mash-up 9s teams like West Yorkshire Tykes, Cumbria Lakers, Humber Eels, Merseyside Storm, France Revolution, Jamaica Bolts, Welsh Dragons, London Pride etc you’d be laughed at.

But that’s what cricket has done with The Hundred and it’s a hit. Would it be so mad to try it, with a view to having a cities circuit with the emphasis on having a good time in high summer, e.g Newcastle 9s at Kingston Park, Leeds 9s at Headingley and London 9s at Wimbledon? 

Sheeeeesh , again , the 100 has chopped out the boring bits , that's it , nothing else , it's still longer than a game of RL , we don't need to shorten the time played or the numbers playing , just cut out the 5 drives and a kick , change the rules if necessary to give you what you want , as I suggested , restart every ' set ' at the half way line , score or give up possession on the half way 

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

If someone suggested RL clubs joined forces and formed regional mash-up 9s teams like West Yorkshire Tykes, Cumbria Lakers, Humber Eels, Merseyside Storm, France Revolution, Jamaica Bolts, Welsh Dragons, London Pride etc you’d be laughed at.

But that’s what cricket has done with The Hundred and it’s a hit. Would it be so mad to try it, with a view to having a cities circuit with the emphasis on having a good time in high summer, e.g Newcastle 9s at Kingston Park, Leeds 9s at Headingley and London 9s at Wimbledon? 

Don't need to do that. A 9s competition can't be limited to existing clubs within the SL/Championship.

Want to grow the game through a 9s completion then have a place for developing teams as well. Leicester Storm, Nottingham Outlaws, etc. These are the places which need to be targeted.