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League Restructure Thread (Merged Threads)


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23 hours ago, OriginalMrC said:

Heard a rumour that there will be no funding for league 1 clubs in the challenge Cup next season. As I understand it they get around £3k per round currently. So next year clubs will have a £50k funding reduction, no travel grant (£8k) and no CC money. People can talk about sustainability but clubs who work on a modest and tight budget will no doubt struggle to continue considering there is no transition period.

A cynic might say that 20 clubs is the magical figure and that the aim is to reduce the number of clubs 

 

Those clubs should pull out of the Challenge Cup for 2022. The RFL hasn't got a leg to stand on.

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Reading the Wigan fans forum there are some really interesting comments on the TV deals and restructuring. I was certainly not aware that the RFL were taking £10 million a year from the previous TV deal. Also the streaming elements and potential terrestrial TV coverage opens up loads of possibilities. From Lenegan:

The new deal means that we can actually stream some matches of our own and charge for them if we want. And we’ve also got 65 more matches left over. So, the idea is to stream some elsewhere if we can find another broadcaster. And secondly, to put some on terrestrial television because there’s no doubt that the BBC improves the eyeballs watching Rugby League over a period. So, the streaming part of the deal, which we’ll get nothing from for the next couple of years until we build it up, could be great for the future. So, there are some good things that come out of that.

Also as feared it seems that 2 x 10s will simply mean everyone playing each other 3 times. Lenegan again:

You’ve seen that relegation for this year stays exactly the same and 12 teams the next year, the idea of going up to 14 and down to 20 is so barmy that we can’t believe why anybody thought that was a good idea. But the idea of two leagues of 10, Super League and Championship / Super League Two, that’s in Wigan’s benefit to a certain extent, because you’ve only got 10 top teams. Alright, you might be playing everybody three times in the year, but the better quality of games.So, there’s a debate started now as to whether it’s 12, or 10. We haven’t really got an axe to grind either way, as far as that is concerned, we’ll go along with what is the most sensible best option. But a lot of it depends on how much money is available for the Super League teams, and how much is available for the Championship teams in order they can compete it and they come up, which may or may not happen. 

https://wiganwarriors.com/blog/2021/09/03/fans-forum-the-first-hour/

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10 minutes ago, Damien said:

From Lenegan:

The new deal means that we can actually stream some matches of our own and charge for them if we want. And we’ve also got 65 more matches left over. So, the idea is to stream some elsewhere if we can find another broadcaster. And secondly, to put some on terrestrial television because there’s no doubt that the BBC improves the eyeballs watching Rugby League over a period. So, the streaming part of the deal, which we’ll get nothing from for the next couple of years until we build it up, could be great for the future. So, there are some good things that come out of that.

If that's true about streaming other games, that's potentially huge. I'd be very up for subscribing to a RL network, and SL on BBC will help get more eyes on the game.

Just need to make up for the shortfall in cash.

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On 02/09/2021 at 12:56, OriginalMrC said:

Heard a rumour that there will be no funding for league 1 clubs in the challenge Cup next season. As I understand it they get around £3k per round currently. So next year clubs will have a £50k funding reduction, no travel grant (£8k) and no CC money. People can talk about sustainability but clubs who work on a modest and tight budget will no doubt struggle to continue considering there is no transition period.

A cynic might say that 20 clubs is the magical figure and that the aim is to reduce the number of clubs 

 

Two league's of 10/12/14 doesn't really matter if the clubs in the two league's are fully sustainable, scrap the salary cap, make clubs find there level, any club who can't survive without £50k funding shouldn't be anywhere near a semi professional sport.

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13 hours ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

If that's true about streaming other games, that's potentially huge. I'd be very up for subscribing to a RL network, and SL on BBC will help get more eyes on the game.

Just need to make up for the shortfall in cash.

It was made explicit in the Challenge Cup deal that the RFL would have control of the digital rights including, I think, streaming games not being shown by the BBC.

The Sky deal press release wasn't so clear. It talked about using digital more effectively and putting some games on Sky's digital platforms (specifically YouTube).

I'd be interested in knowing what the details are around showing non Sky Super League games.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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14 hours ago, Damien said:

"Alright, you might be playing everybody three times in the year, but the better quality of games.So, there’s a debate started now as to whether it’s 12, or 10."

That worries me because it doesn’t make any sense. 

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23 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

That worries me because it doesn’t make any sense. 

Yes it doesn't and I think it's a lazy assumption that never holds true. The biggest worry for me is that the quality of all games on average hasn't been great. In particular it is the quality of games between the top clubs concerns me far more than what happens when 1 plays 12. Big games between the big clubs used to be unmissable for me, now they certainly don't captivate me like they used to and if I see them I see them.

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1 hour ago, Damien said:

Yes it doesn't and I think it's a lazy assumption that never holds true. The biggest worry for me is that the quality of all games on average hasn't been great. In particular it is the quality of games between the top clubs concerns me far more than what happens when 1 plays 12. Big games between the big clubs used to be unmissable for me, now they certainly don't captivate me like they used to and if I see them I see them.

It certainly gives the assumption SL1 wants nothing really to do with SL2 and it is more of a cash grab and loading of repeat fixtures.

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20 hours ago, snoopdog said:

Two league's of 10/12/14 doesn't really matter if the clubs in the two league's are fully sustainable, scrap the salary cap, make clubs find there level, any club who can't survive without £50k funding shouldn't be anywhere near a semi professional sport.

By that logic any club that can't survive without central funding shouldn't be in the game. Take funding away from all clubs and plenty would not survive.

League 1 clubs are small clubs with tight finances, take £60k overnight from any small business and they might struggle. 

I do agree on scrapping the salary cap though. 

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On 02/09/2021 at 12:16, Damien said:

That's just a lame excuse and very disingenuous, as is talk about funding v prize money. 

Of course its based on finance. The initial post that I replied to is all about finance. What Davy said and what he wants to achieve is based on finance. Indeed this entire restructure debate boils down to finance.

That's all it boils down to

And who can grab the most of that pot without any consideration for any of the other teams, their future development and potential and the wider implications for the game 

 

I've read what Davy and Leneghan have said and their words and thought process is borderline disastrous for our sport 

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One thing I dont get about the 10 team SL1 concept is what happens if a well-funded Toulouse get up there and survive alongside Catalans? That's just 8 English teams in the competition.

Assume Hull and Hull KR are 2 of those, which is very likely, then that just leaves 6 other English clubs across the Elite competition. I don't see how that helps develop the game or drive up Sky subscriptions.

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1 hour ago, Whippet13 said:

One thing I dont get about the 10 team SL1 concept is what happens if a well-funded Toulouse get up there and survive alongside Catalans? That's just 8 English teams in the competition.

Assume Hull and Hull KR are 2 of those, which is very likely, then that just leaves 6 other English clubs across the Elite competition. I don't see how that helps develop the game or drive up Sky subscriptions.

Because it's not about that. It's about dividing up the reduced sky deal between less clubs. But they can't even agree on that 

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2 hours ago, Whippet13 said:

One thing I dont get about the 10 team SL1 concept is what happens if a well-funded Toulouse get up there and survive alongside Catalans? That's just 8 English teams in the competition.

Assume Hull and Hull KR are 2 of those, which is very likely, then that just leaves 6 other English clubs across the Elite competition. I don't see how that helps develop the game or drive up Sky subscriptions.

This has all crossed my mind too and it's very valid. If we have Toulouse and Catalans in the 10 there will be some amount of complaints about French clubs taking 2 of the places. 10 makes no logical sense and decisions driven purely by money rarely work out well for the growth of the game.

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4 hours ago, Damien said:

This has all crossed my mind too and it's very valid. If we have Toulouse and Catalans in the 10 there will be some amount of complaints about French clubs taking 2 of the places. 10 makes no logical sense and decisions driven purely by money rarely work out well for the growth of the game.

Smaller SL clubs look at this proposal and think; if they stay in SL they'll continue to receive central funding that broadly covers the salary cap and keeps them in existence. If they get relegated they'll receive less money, but a sum that means they can still put a decent squad together and have a shot at promotion.

The bigger Championship clubs know their futures will be secured in the new SL2. They will receive more central funding than currently, the gap between them and SL will be closer, they'll have a shot at promotion to SL, and won't have to worry about relegation because the 3rd tier will have gone (or at least diminished massively). Deams of being a yo-yo club remain in place. 

If securing their own futures means jettisoning 16 other clubs in the process then 20 rugby league clubs are perfectly fine with that.

"Just as we had been Cathars, we were treizistes, men apart."

Jean Roque, Calendrier-revue du Racing-Club Albigeois, 1958-1959

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4 hours ago, nadera78 said:

Smaller SL clubs look at this proposal and think; if they stay in SL they'll continue to receive central funding that broadly covers the salary cap and keeps them in existence. If they get relegated they'll receive less money, but a sum that means they can still put a decent squad together and have a shot at promotion.

The bigger Championship clubs know their futures will be secured in the new SL2. They will receive more central funding than currently, the gap between them and SL will be closer, they'll have a shot at promotion to SL, and won't have to worry about relegation because the 3rd tier will have gone (or at least diminished massively). Deams of being a yo-yo club remain in place. 

If securing their own futures means jettisoning 16 other clubs in the process then 20 rugby league clubs are perfectly fine with that.

As I've mention somewhere above, when you start to list those 16, think about their history, and the future which in most cases doesnt fit with the NCL so will mean most of the 16 will be wound up, it is a horrific vision of the potential imminent future for our game in this country. 

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On 05/09/2021 at 07:39, Whippet13 said:

One thing I dont get about the 10 team SL1 concept is what happens if a well-funded Toulouse get up there and survive alongside Catalans? That's just 8 English teams in the competition.

Assume Hull and Hull KR are 2 of those, which is very likely, then that just leaves 6 other English clubs across the Elite competition. I don't see how that helps develop the game or drive up Sky subscriptions.

I do recall it being said by Mr. McManus that SKY were not averse to the game expanding geographically, and had no wish to interfere with this. However Mr. McManus outlined that SKY did require a certain number of the clubs, in any form of Superleague, to be English clubs to attract English SKY subscribers and viewers. English Chairmen therefore were pushing the French to find their own paying TV deal....

Two French clubs probably doubles the chance of the French capturing a TV deal, and if Superleague has to provide SKY with 10 English clubs then this may be why Superleague are going for 12 SL clubs this next 2022 season and possibly cutting to 10 in 2023 if the French cannot in that time, find that deal especially if there are two French clubs.

Catalans produced one of SL's greatest games yesterday, but the handicap for the French is the lack of a TV deal and maybe but maybe the French Derbies next season (IF TO win promotion) could attract a lot of English viewers or better still convince French TV to show RL, with an French SL game on in France every week.....

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On 05/09/2021 at 11:18, nadera78 said:

Smaller SL clubs look at this proposal and think; if they stay in SL they'll continue to receive central funding that broadly covers the salary cap and keeps them in existence. If they get relegated they'll receive less money, but a sum that means they can still put a decent squad together and have a shot at promotion.

The bigger Championship clubs know their futures will be secured in the new SL2. They will receive more central funding than currently, the gap between them and SL will be closer, they'll have a shot at promotion to SL, and won't have to worry about relegation because the 3rd tier will have gone (or at least diminished massively). Dreams of being a yo-yo club remain in place. If securing their own futures means jettisoning 16 other clubs in the process then 20 rugby league clubs are perfectly fine with that.

I can't see how 20 clubs may get together and "jettison" 16 fellow clubs to secure a situation where if your not a "Superleague one" club at least you will be a "superleague 2" club and one good season away from the top league.

In seeing a loss of clubs coming John Davidson predicted some casualties, but not 16.

As it stands the bottom 16 include Widnes, Newcastle, Dewsbury, Barrow, Haven, Workington and Keighley - can't see them going, and these are clubs that havehad  no central funding in past years and carried on I do conceded there are a few clubs that probably only really do survive on the handouts, and may only ever survive this way......

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20 hours ago, thebrewxi said:

As I've mention somewhere above, when you start to list those 16, think about their history, and the future 

As above I would not list the "16" as the figure is spurious.

For discussion I may try to list 6..... West Wales, Hunslet, Oldham....and past that point I do not know if the chairmen at other clubs have the resources and will to up their stakes. e.g. London Skolars have a very poor record and poor crowds, but AFAIK Mr. Hector McNeil is a multi-Milliionaire....

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I heard that the club with the worst shirts in RL tabled a suggestion that Coventry, Skolars and West Wales are sent back to the amateur ranks. Funny because both Coventry and Skolars have beaten the club with the worst shirts in RL on more than one occasion in recent years despite that club spending a fortune on players. 

So much for the game sticking together. 

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1 hour ago, steve oates said:

Catalans produced one of SL's greatest games yesterday, but the handicap for the French is the lack of a TV deal and maybe but maybe the French Derbies next season (IF TO win promotion) could attract a lot of English viewers or better still convince French TV to show RL, with an French SL game on in France every week.....

This is the problem without long term stability offered by licensing. We still don't know if Toulouse will be in SL next season (I'm fully expecting Fev to spark a surprise like London did with Toronto a few years back). Even if Toulouse are promoted, neither them nor Catalans are safe from relegation at the end of the season. Now admittedly I know next to nothing about broadcasting deals, but I'm not sure why any TV network would be busting a gut to make a deal with a sport that might only last one year. If there was a guaranteed 3-5 years, surely this would be a much more attractive proposition and easier to sell?

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9 minutes ago, OriginalMrC said:

I heard that the club with the worst shirts in RL tabled a suggestion that Coventry, Skolars and West Wales are sent back to the amateur ranks. Funny because both Coventry and Skolars have beaten the club with the worst shirts in RL on more than one occasion in recent years despite that club spending a fortune on players. 

So much for the game sticking together. 

Who would this be?

This kind of attitude is thoroughly depressing. 

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