League Restructure Thread (Merged Threads)

[Tommygilf]

1 hour ago, Liverpool Rover said:

So SL2 will be no different to what it is now? Not only that but it will still be treated as it is now as a league that only exists to get out of ASAP.

I think the focus will be on making relegation to the second tier less potentially catastrophic; a sporting penalty more than a financial penalty.

The idea being that minimum standards would mean that any SL2 team could be (and wants to be) a Super League team. Right now that is not what the championship provides.

[Damien]

1 minute ago, Tommygilf said:

I think the focus will be on making relegation to the second tier less potentially catastrophic; a sporting penalty more than a financial penalty.

The idea being that minimum standards would mean that any SL2 team could be (and wants to be) a Super League team. Right now that is not what the championship provides.

You cannot do that without taking away from and seriously impacting on Super League. It is just more race to the bottom stuff. If money from the TV deal is being used to fund a full time Championship, and with the TV cut I don't possibly see how there is, then it is wasted money as it brings in no TV income. Its just repeating the same mistakes.

[Liverpool Rover]

14 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

I think the focus will be on making relegation to the second tier less potentially catastrophic; a sporting penalty more than a financial penalty.

The idea being that minimum standards would mean that any SL2 team could be (and wants to be) a Super League team. Right now that is not what the championship provides.

To me it feels like having P&R just for the sake of having P&R.

If Super League wants 10 then those 10 places should be open to apply and the 10 strongest should get them. The clubs that miss out should then be told where they fell short and be under regular review and then be added to Super League when they are ready.

[yipyee]

On 14/09/2021 at 10:38, Harry Stottle said:

Sorry for the late reply Damien just catching up on this thread, and if this has been broached further from your post I apologise.

One other point that must be taken into consideration whether people like it or not or agree with if or not is having 20% (2 from 10) of the overseas clubs which in all intense will being very few if no spectator's to the other clubs, I know the old argument that clubs should not have to budget for away fans but it is a reality and collectively if there are 13 home fixtures a season (26 French visits) that us quite a lot of money out of the game.

I don't have an opinion on it but I expect the SL Chairmen do.

Ha thats very selective.

If the French clubs have higher HOME attendances than said clubs so say 4k averages compared with 8k that would be 13 x 2 home games from french clubs so 26 games with an extra 104k fans at SL games which would more than make up for a few hundred AWAY fans at 26 french away games.

So in reality at say £20 per ticket its a very very rough extra 2 million per year in the game.

The SL chairmen wont be bothered if they get more SKY money or a share of French TV money which would be more and more likely with more french clubs in the euro league

[yipyee]

45 minutes ago, Liverpool Rover said:

To me it feels like having P&R just for the sake of having P&R.

If Super League wants 10 then those 10 places should be open to apply and the 10 strongest should get them. The clubs that miss out should then be told where they fell short and be under regular review and then be added to Super League when they are ready.

Fall short of what though?

Where is the bar set as this was the issue last time.

Also as we saw with the academys, any decisions maybe challenged in court leading to loss of money and brings the game into disripute.

[GUBRATS]

7 hours ago, Liverpool Rover said:

To me it feels like having P&R just for the sake of having P&R.

If Super League wants 10 then those 10 places should be open to apply and the 10 strongest should get them. The clubs that miss out should then be told where they fell short and be under regular review and then be added to Super League when they are ready.

We've seen this posted plenty of times , unfortunately those left out start to contract much quicker as their fan bases drift away , so nobody will eve be in a position to ' be added ' 

[Tommygilf]

11 hours ago, Damien said:

You cannot do that without taking away from and seriously impacting on Super League. It is just more race to the bottom stuff. If money from the TV deal is being used to fund a full time Championship, and with the TV cut I don't possibly see how there is, then it is wasted money as it brings in no TV income. Its just repeating the same mistakes.

I don't disagree, I think the logic is flawed; but I do think that is the logic.

[Tommygilf]

10 hours ago, Liverpool Rover said:

To me it feels like having P&R just for the sake of having P&R.

If Super League wants 10 then those 10 places should be open to apply and the 10 strongest should get them. The clubs that miss out should then be told where they fell short and be under regular review and then be added to Super League when they are ready.

I think there is a deep need to be strategic.

What mergers etc tried to do is rationalise the resources in the game. There aren't the financial resources for 3 Good Super League clubs in the WF postcode just as there isn't in Leeds (given the rest of the non RL competition). If we are cutting numbers then we shouldn't pretend things are the case that aren't.

Clubs should be prioritised and it should be unashamedly strategic reasons why. Going half baked trying to please people won't help either the RFL or the game as a whole pushing through quite radical changes.

Whilst I don't agree with it, I think the logic here is to keep P/R, but to ensure that any club that came up to the top division was  capable of operating at the required level. That is to say you could replace a lot of the top tier with the second tier confidently and that likewise being relegated doesn't mean collapse. 

I think that is a flawed logic that ignores where RL is at in this country. At best it is premature.

[Damien]

1 hour ago, Tommygilf said:

I don't disagree, I think the logic is flawed; but I do think that is the logic.

I think you are right, it just doesn't stand up to scrutiny. It, as usual, just smacks of people at the RFL being more interested in keeping secure in their positions rather than doing what's best.

[redjonn]

Strategically I would have thought it important to have P&R or some form of jeopardy in order to attract inward investment in lower division.

Of course getting inward investment is difficult and what RL does to make the sport an attractive sports market is key.

You may for a short while whilst consolidating if consolidation was a short term tactical decision but to freeze P&R permanently would be a mistake strategically.

[The storm]

16 hours ago, Liverpool Rover said:

So SL2 will be no different to what it is now? Not only that but it will still be treated as it is now as a league that only exists to get out of ASAP.

Franchise super league. In order of eligibikity

1 Catalan Dragons 

2 Wigan 

3 Leeds Rhinos

4 Bradford Bulls 

5 Toulouse 

6 St Helens 

7 Warrington Wolves

8 Hull KR

9 Hull FC 

10 Newcastle Thunder 

11 York 

12 Featherstone 

 

And contenders 

Salford red devils 

Barrow 

WIDNES

Huddersfield 

castleford Tigers 

WAKEFIELD Trinity 

HALIFAX Panthers 

London broncos 

 

 

[Man of Kent]

22 minutes ago, The storm said:

Franchise super league. In order of eligibikity

1 Catalan Dragons 

2 Wigan 

3 Leeds Rhinos

4 Bradford Bulls 

5 Toulouse 

6 St Helens 

7 Warrington Wolves

8 Hull KR

9 Hull FC 

10 Newcastle Thunder 

11 York 

12 Featherstone 

 

And contenders 

Salford red devils 

Barrow 

WIDNES

Huddersfield 

castleford Tigers 

WAKEFIELD Trinity 

HALIFAX Panthers 

London broncos 

 

 

No Leigh. Good man

[crashmon]

1 hour ago, The storm said:

Franchise super league. In order of eligibikity

1 Catalan Dragons 

2 Wigan 

3 Leeds Rhinos

4 Bradford Bulls 

5 Toulouse 

6 St Helens 

7 Warrington Wolves

8 Hull KR

9 Hull FC 

10 Newcastle Thunder 

11 York 

12 Featherstone 

 

And contenders 

Salford red devils 

Barrow 

WIDNES

Huddersfield 

castleford Tigers 

WAKEFIELD Trinity 

HALIFAX Panthers 

London broncos 

 

 

Its very debatable that London will even be around this time next year. Not unless RFL provides funding of some type. David Hughes is not going to fund a side getting hammered every week, while paying 200K for the rent at the same time

[westlondonfan]

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/sep/19/its-going-to-be-tough-rugby-leagues-london-future-looks-uncertain?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other&fbclid=IwAR07dy6fCjQvBVBRpkU0IXkmVysWvHsvuWhvIz_TIZdMHm1upK5B_NyYS9U

[DI Keith Fowler]

25 minutes ago, crashmon said:

Its very debatable that London will even be around this time next year. Not unless RFL provides funding of some type. David Hughes is not going to fund a side getting hammered every week, while paying 200K for the rent at the same time

He's setting them up for a fall if he isn't. No one made him move to Wimbledon if he could only afford a part time team. 

[Man of Kent]

55 minutes ago, crashmon said:

Its very debatable that London will even be around this time next year. Not unless RFL provides funding of some type. David Hughes is not going to fund a side getting hammered every week, while paying 200K for the rent at the same time

On the other hand, what happens if London are selected to be in Super League 2? Do they go back to FT? 

[GUBRATS]

1 hour ago, Man of Kent said:

On the other hand, what happens if London are selected to be in Super League 2? Do they go back to FT? 

That's why ' selection ' processes are nonsense 

[Angelic Cynic]

3 hours ago, DI Keith Fowler said:

He's setting them up for a fall if he isn't. No one made him move to Wimbledon if he could only afford a part time team. 

A London follower,on their forum,pondered whether the move to Plough Lane is because they have been informed they require a certain standard stadium for Super League in 2023.

Mr Hughes, can save some money, by going part time for 12 months.

It may also explain Bradford returning to Odsal.

Rumours of the Top 6 in The Championship next year may not apply to those clubs.

I just hope Hull FC and Kingston Rovers merge.

Great sport is rugby league.No other sport like it.

[Man of Kent]

13 minutes ago, Angelic Cynic said:

A London follower,on their forum,pondered whether the move to Plough Lane is because they have been informed they require a certain standard stadium for Super League in 2023.

Mr Hughes, can save some money, by going part time for 12 months.

It may also explain Bradford returning to Odsal.

Rumours of the Top 6 in The Championship next year may not apply to those clubs.

That theory is given credence by Simon Johnson’s suggestion this week that the 20 may not be selected via the league table, ie with KPIs. 

[thebrewxi]

Even if the above speculative list by the storm isnt correct, it isnt going to be miles off. When you start to think about what that means for teams that 100% wont get in, and the ones that might but then dont, it's crazy.

Seriously, I'd encourage people to start listing them out and thinking about what would happen one by one to each club if all their funding was withdrawn. 

Then start lististing out how many clubs will not then exist in 2 years time. 

This is a massive, seismic change to the sport in this country. Bigger than 1996 surely. But its going to happen, there is nothing the clubs that will miss out can now do a out it.

Goodbye expansion. Goodbye historic clubs that are currently on a tiptoe  nomadic existence. The ones that will survive and perhaps make it into the NCL will be fundamentally changed.

Scary. But a done deal. I genuinely cant believe this isnt generating more headlines (even in the friendly press) than 25 years ago. 

[fighting irish]

7 hours ago, The storm said:

 

When's the decision going to be announced? 

[Saint Toppy]

9 hours ago, The storm said:

Franchise super league. In order of eligibikity

1 Catalan Dragons 

2 Wigan 

3 Leeds Rhinos

4 Bradford Bulls 

5 Toulouse 

6 St Helens 

7 Warrington Wolves

8 Hull KR

9 Hull FC 

10 Newcastle Thunder 

11 York 

12 Featherstone 

 

And contenders 

Salford red devils 

Barrow 

WIDNES

Huddersfield 

castleford Tigers 

WAKEFIELD Trinity 

HALIFAX Panthers 

London broncos 

 

 

And the silly season has started early even before this years over.

Nice of you to at least include the current back to back SL champions and most successful SL era club as the 6th most eligible club, neatly behind the bankrupt bulls, a French team who have never even competed at the top level, and a Wigan team with no stadium of their own, oh  and to also include the quaint yawkshire village of Featherstone in place of 4 current SL clubs, 3 of which are bigger and in the same geographical area

[David Shepherd]

12 hours ago, Saint Toppy said:

And the silly season has started early even before this years over.

Nice of you to at least include the current back to back SL champions and most successful SL era club as the 6th most eligible club, neatly behind the bankrupt bulls, a French team who have never even competed at the top level, and a Wigan team with no stadium of their own, oh  and to also include the quaint yawkshire village of Featherstone in place of 4 current SL clubs, 3 of which are bigger and in the same geographical area

That quaint Yorkshire village is the only one in WF that has a stadium that's not likely to kill you, or at best have as yet unknown to science diseases lurking in the bogs.

[idrewthehaggis]

On 20/09/2021 at 22:36, Saint Toppy said:

And the silly season has started early even before this years over.

Nice of you to at least include the current back to back SL champions and most successful SL era club as the 6th most eligible club, neatly behind the bankrupt bulls, a French team who have never even competed at the top level, and a Wigan team with no stadium of their own, oh  and to also include the quaint yawkshire village of Featherstone in place of 4 current SL clubs, 3 of which are bigger and in the same geographical area

I  guess such lists only reflect the biases of those composing them. As well as what is the favour of the day. The present one being York, yesterday it was Toronto.

First we take Manhattan, then we take Batley. 

My question is how many clubs outside SL could operate in the theoretical SL 2?

Who completes an algorithm of facilities, development, history, support and finances, plus whatever qualities you wish to add- the David Shepherd S bend test or the Padge beer emporium measurements?

So how many and who?

Second how do you ensure Tier Two is adequately funded? Pointless if it isn't.

[rlno1]

On 18/09/2021 at 17:30, Man of Kent said:

Good interview with the RFL’s Simon Johnson on the Forty20 podcast. 

Ever more clear the plan is for 2x10 and the interesting bit for me was Johnson did not deny the suggestion that the 20 might be selected. 

Audio only:

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/forty20-rugby-league-podcasts/id1434352450

 

The more I hear Johnson and Rimmer talking about this the more I am convinced they will be going into partnership as the NRL have done with News Corp.

All the talk is exactly the same that we heard when News Corp first got involved in Australian RL. Intense games for the broadcaster. State of Origin every week.

Looks like they will introduce a criteria to cherry pick who they want. In Australia NCorp helped "their" clubs out so they made the cut.

To me they are following Richardson's plan but dressed it up as if it's the RFL/SLE idea.

Listen to the way Johnson talks about international RL it is straight out of Richardson's plan.

They did the same in Australia, SL won the war but they knew they were on the nose with the public so they made it look as though they weren't pulling the strings.

Hopefully RL grows and gets stronger as there is no war this time.