League Restructure Thread (Merged Threads)

[Man of Kent]

22 minutes ago, The storm said:

Franchise super league. In order of eligibikity

1 Catalan Dragons 

2 Wigan 

3 Leeds Rhinos

4 Bradford Bulls 

5 Toulouse 

6 St Helens 

7 Warrington Wolves

8 Hull KR

9 Hull FC 

10 Newcastle Thunder 

11 York 

12 Featherstone 

 

And contenders 

Salford red devils 

Barrow 

WIDNES

Huddersfield 

castleford Tigers 

WAKEFIELD Trinity 

HALIFAX Panthers 

London broncos 

 

 

No Leigh. Good man

[crashmon]

1 hour ago, The storm said:

Franchise super league. In order of eligibikity

1 Catalan Dragons 

2 Wigan 

3 Leeds Rhinos

4 Bradford Bulls 

5 Toulouse 

6 St Helens 

7 Warrington Wolves

8 Hull KR

9 Hull FC 

10 Newcastle Thunder 

11 York 

12 Featherstone 

 

And contenders 

Salford red devils 

Barrow 

WIDNES

Huddersfield 

castleford Tigers 

WAKEFIELD Trinity 

HALIFAX Panthers 

London broncos 

 

 

Its very debatable that London will even be around this time next year. Not unless RFL provides funding of some type. David Hughes is not going to fund a side getting hammered every week, while paying 200K for the rent at the same time

[westlondonfan]

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/sep/19/its-going-to-be-tough-rugby-leagues-london-future-looks-uncertain?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other&fbclid=IwAR07dy6fCjQvBVBRpkU0IXkmVysWvHsvuWhvIz_TIZdMHm1upK5B_NyYS9U

[DI Keith Fowler]

25 minutes ago, crashmon said:

Its very debatable that London will even be around this time next year. Not unless RFL provides funding of some type. David Hughes is not going to fund a side getting hammered every week, while paying 200K for the rent at the same time

He's setting them up for a fall if he isn't. No one made him move to Wimbledon if he could only afford a part time team. 

[Man of Kent]

55 minutes ago, crashmon said:

Its very debatable that London will even be around this time next year. Not unless RFL provides funding of some type. David Hughes is not going to fund a side getting hammered every week, while paying 200K for the rent at the same time

On the other hand, what happens if London are selected to be in Super League 2? Do they go back to FT? 

[GUBRATS]

1 hour ago, Man of Kent said:

On the other hand, what happens if London are selected to be in Super League 2? Do they go back to FT? 

That's why ' selection ' processes are nonsense 

[Angelic Cynic]

3 hours ago, DI Keith Fowler said:

He's setting them up for a fall if he isn't. No one made him move to Wimbledon if he could only afford a part time team. 

A London follower,on their forum,pondered whether the move to Plough Lane is because they have been informed they require a certain standard stadium for Super League in 2023.

Mr Hughes, can save some money, by going part time for 12 months.

It may also explain Bradford returning to Odsal.

Rumours of the Top 6 in The Championship next year may not apply to those clubs.

I just hope Hull FC and Kingston Rovers merge.

Great sport is rugby league.No other sport like it.

[Man of Kent]

13 minutes ago, Angelic Cynic said:

A London follower,on their forum,pondered whether the move to Plough Lane is because they have been informed they require a certain standard stadium for Super League in 2023.

Mr Hughes, can save some money, by going part time for 12 months.

It may also explain Bradford returning to Odsal.

Rumours of the Top 6 in The Championship next year may not apply to those clubs.

That theory is given credence by Simon Johnson’s suggestion this week that the 20 may not be selected via the league table, ie with KPIs. 

[thebrewxi]

Even if the above speculative list by the storm isnt correct, it isnt going to be miles off. When you start to think about what that means for teams that 100% wont get in, and the ones that might but then dont, it's crazy.

Seriously, I'd encourage people to start listing them out and thinking about what would happen one by one to each club if all their funding was withdrawn. 

Then start lististing out how many clubs will not then exist in 2 years time. 

This is a massive, seismic change to the sport in this country. Bigger than 1996 surely. But its going to happen, there is nothing the clubs that will miss out can now do a out it.

Goodbye expansion. Goodbye historic clubs that are currently on a tiptoe  nomadic existence. The ones that will survive and perhaps make it into the NCL will be fundamentally changed.

Scary. But a done deal. I genuinely cant believe this isnt generating more headlines (even in the friendly press) than 25 years ago. 

[fighting irish]

7 hours ago, The storm said:

 

When's the decision going to be announced? 

[Saint Toppy]

9 hours ago, The storm said:

Franchise super league. In order of eligibikity

1 Catalan Dragons 

2 Wigan 

3 Leeds Rhinos

4 Bradford Bulls 

5 Toulouse 

6 St Helens 

7 Warrington Wolves

8 Hull KR

9 Hull FC 

10 Newcastle Thunder 

11 York 

12 Featherstone 

 

And contenders 

Salford red devils 

Barrow 

WIDNES

Huddersfield 

castleford Tigers 

WAKEFIELD Trinity 

HALIFAX Panthers 

London broncos 

 

 

And the silly season has started early even before this years over.

Nice of you to at least include the current back to back SL champions and most successful SL era club as the 6th most eligible club, neatly behind the bankrupt bulls, a French team who have never even competed at the top level, and a Wigan team with no stadium of their own, oh  and to also include the quaint yawkshire village of Featherstone in place of 4 current SL clubs, 3 of which are bigger and in the same geographical area

Edited September 20, 2021 by Saint Toppy

[David Shepherd]

12 hours ago, Saint Toppy said:

And the silly season has started early even before this years over.

Nice of you to at least include the current back to back SL champions and most successful SL era club as the 6th most eligible club, neatly behind the bankrupt bulls, a French team who have never even competed at the top level, and a Wigan team with no stadium of their own, oh  and to also include the quaint yawkshire village of Featherstone in place of 4 current SL clubs, 3 of which are bigger and in the same geographical area

That quaint Yorkshire village is the only one in WF that has a stadium that's not likely to kill you, or at best have as yet unknown to science diseases lurking in the bogs.

[idrewthehaggis]

On 20/09/2021 at 22:36, Saint Toppy said:

And the silly season has started early even before this years over.

Nice of you to at least include the current back to back SL champions and most successful SL era club as the 6th most eligible club, neatly behind the bankrupt bulls, a French team who have never even competed at the top level, and a Wigan team with no stadium of their own, oh  and to also include the quaint yawkshire village of Featherstone in place of 4 current SL clubs, 3 of which are bigger and in the same geographical area

I  guess such lists only reflect the biases of those composing them. As well as what is the favour of the day. The present one being York, yesterday it was Toronto.

First we take Manhattan, then we take Batley. 

My question is how many clubs outside SL could operate in the theoretical SL 2?

Who completes an algorithm of facilities, development, history, support and finances, plus whatever qualities you wish to add- the David Shepherd S bend test or the Padge beer emporium measurements?

So how many and who?

Second how do you ensure Tier Two is adequately funded? Pointless if it isn't.

[rlno1]

On 18/09/2021 at 17:30, Man of Kent said:

Good interview with the RFL’s Simon Johnson on the Forty20 podcast. 

Ever more clear the plan is for 2x10 and the interesting bit for me was Johnson did not deny the suggestion that the 20 might be selected. 

Audio only:

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/forty20-rugby-league-podcasts/id1434352450

 

The more I hear Johnson and Rimmer talking about this the more I am convinced they will be going into partnership as the NRL have done with News Corp.

All the talk is exactly the same that we heard when News Corp first got involved in Australian RL. Intense games for the broadcaster. State of Origin every week.

Looks like they will introduce a criteria to cherry pick who they want. In Australia NCorp helped "their" clubs out so they made the cut.

To me they are following Richardson's plan but dressed it up as if it's the RFL/SLE idea.

Listen to the way Johnson talks about international RL it is straight out of Richardson's plan.

They did the same in Australia, SL won the war but they knew they were on the nose with the public so they made it look as though they weren't pulling the strings.

Hopefully RL grows and gets stronger as there is no war this time. 

 

[rlno1]

On 21/09/2021 at 00:50, Man of Kent said:

On the other hand, what happens if London are selected to be in Super League 2? Do they go back to FT? 

 

11 hours ago, idrewthehaggis said:

 

So how many and who?

Second how do you ensure Tier Two is adequately funded? Pointless if it isn't.

You go into partnership with News Corp/Broadcaster and do what they want. Then you get your cash.

[newbe]

Does any one know when the new structure is being announced, bearing in mind this RL, but teams starts in the later part of the year.

[DI Keith Fowler]

32 minutes ago, newbe said:

Does any one know when the new structure is being announced, bearing in mind this RL, but teams starts in the later part of the year.

It's frustrating. I appreciate it's a big change to agree but I don't really understand why this process has only started in earnest at the back end of the season.

My club Widnes have decided to recruit on the basis that finishing in the top 8 in the Championship is imperative to form part of the future structure. This may or may not be the case though, and other clubs will be in a state of limbo. Next season could be an existential threat or completely irrelevant depending on the direction chosen. 

[dead man inc]

On 23/09/2021 at 13:48, DI Keith Fowler said:

It's frustrating. I appreciate it's a big change to agree but I don't really understand why this process has only started in earnest at the back end of the season.

My club Widnes have decided to recruit on the basis that finishing in the top 8 in the Championship is imperative to form part of the future structure. This may or may not be the case though, and other clubs will be in a state of limbo. Next season could be an existential threat or completely irrelevant depending on the direction chosen. 

‘Next season could be an existential threat or completely irrelevant depending on the direction chosen.’

really does sum it up! It’s not just teams that will be making decisions without knowing what’s going on - players are going to be in the same boat! 

[Fevrover]

On 20/09/2021 at 22:36, Saint Toppy said:

And the silly season has started early even before this years over.

Nice of you to at least include the current back to back SL champions and most successful SL era club as the 6th most eligible club, neatly behind the bankrupt bulls, a French team who have never even competed at the top level, and a Wigan team with no stadium of their own, oh  and to also include the quaint yawkshire village of Featherstone in place of 4 current SL clubs, 3 of which are bigger and in the same geographical area

We aren't quaint or a village thank you.

[steve oates]

On 22/09/2021 at 14:06, idrewthehaggis said:

My question is how many clubs outside SL could operate in the theoretical SL 2?

Who completes an algorithm of facilities, development, history, support and finances, plus whatever qualities you wish to add- the David Shepherd S bend test or the Padge beer emporium measurements?

So how many and who?

Second how do you ensure Tier Two is adequately funded? Pointless if it isn't.

SL1 will contain the 10 biggest clubs, not too hard to imagine who..........

SL2 will contain the next 10 biggest clubs and I would imagine that "adequate funding" will be down to the club owners, those with the big wallets will be cordially invited to spend their cash and run professional, if after that there are still any spaces then semi pro clubs will get the invite.

Not sure how this is any different to the second tier now, the top clubs can run pro -remember Beaumont insisting he be able to spend as much on players as SL clubs, and being allowed to do so? So thats a mix.

Then after the money clubs have been allocated spaces why not (if 16 money clubs are in) pick the next four clubs in the tables as they stand at the end of this season. Then put the other clubs in an RFL run new "Championship".....

Two points......

1. Go back to earlier SKY deals. For years small clubs got nothing and survived. 

2. Haven't the small clubs being allocated some of the money.

I don't see anything to be outraged about here or any need to predict clubs outside the 20 will be slaughtered, all I see is a return to how the game was before this current contract which threw Millions at the Championships for no return.

The only relevant point here is 20 SL clubs and 16 Championship clubs enables the SL clubs to outvote the RL and for me this is what it really is all about. Power.......

 

 

 

 

[M j M]

So it's looking like the madness of a ten team top flight is going ahead? Do any fans really want that?

[idrewthehaggis]

3 hours ago, M j M said:

So it's looking like the madness of a ten team top flight is going ahead? Do any fans really want that?

No.

Match ticket revenue remains the biggest single stream.

That depends of how many games are played and how many turn up.

A league of ten means either a robin round of less games than now or further loop games to compensate.

Loop fixtures means the same teams playing each other. Add this may happen again in the Cup and Finals. 

Time and time again this repetition is loathed by fans and given as a reason for supporter fatigue and malaise.

To compensate Rimmer et all are suggesting Groups in the earlier stages of the Challenge Cup and an expanded World Club Championships. The former is a recipe for depressed attendances and apathy, more loop fixtures.

Whilst the latter will just compound the games structural imbalance in providing exclusive extra revenue for the leading clubs and none for any one else. 

Keep SL at 12 and the second tier at say 8 and expand it when extra monies are raised.

I would argue if this was a series of businesses, then you would be looking at consolidating costs and creating new revenue streams.

Consolidating would mean, central contracts, regional rather than club academies, joint merchandise, sponsorship, marketing and equipment deals. 

Streams would mean Levies of match game revenue, non federation wages, Nines, FTA TV deal and so on.

So no. 

[David Dockhouse Host]

Sorry for the bump, just for those who may not have seen it. Here Total Rugby's Martyn Sadler discusses his proposed League structures and why he feels it is a genuine opportunity to share finance, opportunities yet safeguard against over spending.

Also looking for feedback on our set up as we're thinking if getting a large table, but that's better for the Dockhouse Rugby thread 

 

[M j M]

Christ we did Sadler's madcap scheme to death a few weeks ago, don't bring it back up again now.

[David Dockhouse Host]

1 hour ago, M j M said:

Christ we did Sadler's madcap scheme to death a few weeks ago, don't bring it back up again now.

Ha ha, mad cap or innovative?