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1 hour ago, gingerjon said:

Tonga and Samoa aren't coming over. No nations with predominately NRL players are coming over.

So, what are we left with?

Keep any ideas to those nations and any possibilities they offer.

The NRL can’t stop players playing in Internationals. It’s down to the Tongan and Samoan National sides governing bodies whether or not they play. This 3 week tournament could potentially sell out every game.

Week 1

England v France Headingley  

Samoa v Tonga Wigan

Week 2

England v Samoa St Helens 

France v Tonga Perpignan  

Week 3

England v Tonga Hull

France v Samoa Toulouse 

 

The highest profile Tongan of all Jason Taumalolo wants to come over and play, get a Four Nations Tournament on and get him over here.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.skysports.com/amp/rugby-league/news/15323/12365366/tonga-star-jason-taumalolo-committed-to-playing-in-world-cup-despite-withdrawals

Edited by Sir Kevin Sinfield
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I think a genuine option would be a 3-test series with PNG.

You are talking maybe 5-6 NRL players tops (Olam, Mead, Oates, Johnstone, Lam) plus Queensland Cup (Hunters and others). With the strength of England right now it would be a pretty competitive series and probably would sell well given the WC hole. The PNG players I'm sure would love it and could play Wales and France too if arranged.

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24 minutes ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

The NRL can’t stop players playing in Internationals.

Why do you think the World Cup isn't happening?

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Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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39 minutes ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

The NRL can’t stop players playing in Internationals. It’s down to the Tongan and Samoan National sides governing bodies whether or not they play. This 3 week tournament could potentially sell out every game.

Week 1

England v France Headingley  

Samoa v Tonga Wigan

Week 2

England v Samoa St Helens 

France v Tonga Perpignan  

Week 3

England v Tonga Hull

France v Samoa Toulouse 

 

The highest profile Tongan of all Jason Taumalolo wants to come over and play, get a Four Nations Tournament on and get him over here.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.skysports.com/amp/rugby-league/news/15323/12365366/tonga-star-jason-taumalolo-committed-to-playing-in-world-cup-despite-withdrawals

I mean, just a couple of days ago Kristian Woolf said he had wanted the RLWC to go ahead but, given everything that had happened with Australia and New Zealand, it was probably best to postpone it and let the players have a break. If you seriously think he's going to be getting a Tonga squad together to travel over to England then you're very much mistaken.

"Just as we had been Cathars, we were treizistes, men apart."

Jean Roque, Calendrier-revue du Racing-Club Albigeois, 1958-1959

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48 minutes ago, Scubby said:

I think a genuine option would be a 3-test series with PNG.

You are talking maybe 5-6 NRL players tops (Olam, Mead, Oates, Johnstone, Lam) plus Queensland Cup (Hunters and others). With the strength of England right now it would be a pretty competitive series and probably would sell well given the WC hole. The PNG players I'm sure would love it and could play Wales and France too if arranged.

A 3 match series against PNG, Fiji, Samoa or Tonga would certainly be a good option but I’d prefer a Four Nations tournament personally.

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5 minutes ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

A 3 match series against PNG, Fiji, Samoa or Tonga would certainly be a good option but I’d prefer a Four Nations tournament personally.

Tournaments are tricky at short notice. However an agreement between 2 federations for a test series is much more doable.

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We need to learn. The learning here is not to rely on the Southern Hemisphere to grow the international game anywhere other than on their own territory. We can play those teams when they can be bothered, or when the NRL allow them to. Whether we like it or not, Australia seem to hold all the cards and they will do it their way. We need to change that, and the only thing that would do that would be if they thought the European competition could eventually improve England as an RL international entity (yes, I know that would take quite some time).

An autumn European tournament, every other year, should be considered a long-term investment in the Northern Hemisphere game. (Year 1 - World Cup, Year 2 - European Cup, Year 3 - 4 Nations, Year 4 - European Cup)

What I am sure about is that England and France have the opportunity to build their own long-term international status by growing good European competition, in Ireland, Scotland, Wales and elsewhere in Europe. The RU model of expansion saw teams like Argentina, Italy and Japan getting whacked every time they set out, but they improved quickly through exposure to better teams. I have absolutely no problem with teams racking up 100 points in year 1, as long as by year 5 there is a more competitive team who keeps that score down to under 50. Perhaps if we stuck at it, in 10 years time there may be a really competitive European Cup? Perhaps England and France could even put out 2 teams each and play double header fixtures against 2 other nations to boost crowds.

Imagine what that could do to player mentality; knowing there was a reliable, annual competition for them to represent their country in? Perhaps we should also ensure that squads have a certain percentage of players who play in the county's domestic league? 

A bit too brave and progressive for RL, I know.

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27 minutes ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

Australia and New Zealand pulled out of the tournament 

It wasn’t cancelled when they pulled out

it was cancelled when the NRL said it wouldn’t release players

I’m not sure if you’re on the wind up here as this was pretty well known 🤷🏻‍♂️

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17 hours ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

I understand the sentiment but England would win that competition easy, 

And that is the attitude that has stopped England v France on a regular basis.

Why as a sport are we so afraid of one sided scores?  How can the likes of France, Wales, Ireland and Scotland improve if we are too scared to let them play England on a regular basis?  Regular competition will over time lead to a closure of the gap.  It could also lead to more participants in those nations if there is greater exposure of the international game.

If in 2023 we do have the 2x10 SL1 and if that leads to an 19 game season - including a Magic Weekend - then we could accommodate a mid season Northern Hemisphere Tournament with 2 groups of 3 comprising for example England, Wales, Jamaica and France, Scotland, Ireland.  Have a 5v6, 3v4 and final for the group leaders and that can determine the groups for the following year.

This will still give an opportunity to have a 4 Nations or whatever at the end of the season.

Edited by Adelaide Tiger
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We've known for some time, and recent events have only emphasised, that we really need to build up some local rivals. It's imperative to be honest. Realistically, that means France and Wales - they're much more sustainable than Ireland or Scotland. France is closer to being a consistent rival than Wales, but we need to work hard to assist both of them to develop and improve. That means playing them regularly, beginning with this season.

If we decide to leave our NRL players out of the squad, and maybe one or two over 30s, just to even the odds a little then so be it. Every other sport does it without fans complaining and death riding the fixtures - rather they see it as an opportunity to blood younger players, to experiment with line ups, to rest ageing bones.

So let's get a tournament on, playing each other once. France v Wales (Toulouse would be good) to start with, so neither of them go in cold against England. Then England v Wales (Newcastle/Middlesborough given the RLWC next year), finally France v England (Perpignan or Avignon). Three weeks, done and dusted, not too long so the players get some rest before 2022.

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"Just as we had been Cathars, we were treizistes, men apart."

Jean Roque, Calendrier-revue du Racing-Club Albigeois, 1958-1959

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4 hours ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

I understand the sentiment but England would win that competition easy, if we get Tonga and/or Samoa over we have World Class opposition who stand a genuine chance of winning games and the tournament. That’s why I’d go for a Four Nations tournament featuring those sides if possible.

I don't think Tonga, Samoa, Fiji, PNG will be coming over regardless, because of the NRL. 

We need a genuine, long term European international competition and I'm well aware that there could be high scores, but without competitive fixtures they'll never improve.

 

2008 RFL Wakefield & District Young Volunteer of the Year

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39 minutes ago, nadera78 said:

We've known for some time, and recent events have only emphasised, that we really need to build up some local rivals. It's imperative to be honest. Realistically, that means France and Wales - they're much more sustainable than Ireland or Scotland. France is closer to being a consistent rival than Wales, but we need to work hard to assist both of them to develop and improve. That means playing them regularly, beginning with this season.

If we decide to leave our NRL players out of the squad, and maybe one or two over 30s, just to even the odds a little then so be it. Every other sport does it without fans complaining and death riding the fixtures - rather they see it as an opportunity to blood younger players, to experiment with line ups, to rest ageing bones.

So let's get a tournament on, playing each other once. France v Wales (Toulouse would be good) to start with, so neither of them go in cold against England. Then England v Wales (Newcastle/Middlesborough given the RLWC next year), finally France v England (Perpignan or Avignon). Three weeks, done and dusted, not too long so the players get some rest before 2022.

What you say about players here in a good point I think. I remember when Jamaica played England Knights during the GB tour. It really bugged me that it was essentially considered England reserves that Jamaica played and it wasn't considered a full England test.

At the time I likened to if England football played Jamaica, in that situation England wouldn't put out their full first team, they'd see it as perfect opportunity to blood some young, up coming players but just because they didn't put their first team out wouldn't mean it wasn't considered a full England international so why did it have to be England Knights that played Jamaica and not just England? There was no reason on Earth for that to be called a reserve team and as a result of that England didn't play until the mid season game this year. 

Edited by The Hallucinating Goose
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1 hour ago, Northern Eel said:

Give me a 3-match series this Autumn against France. 

1 x Perpignan

1 x Toulouse

1 x England

We need to make France our biggest friend now the Southern Hemisphere have shown their cards.

The only change I’d make to that is to play the Perpignan game in Avignon.

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50 minutes ago, nadera78 said:

We've known for some time, and recent events have only emphasised, that we really need to build up some local rivals. It's imperative to be honest. Realistically, that means France and Wales - they're much more sustainable than Ireland or Scotland.

And the next one in line would be Jamaica since they seem to have a great set up at home in the Caribbean to explore/develop.

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2 hours ago, Spidey said:

It wasn’t cancelled when they pulled out

it was cancelled when the NRL said it wouldn’t release players

I’m not sure if you’re on the wind up here as this was pretty well known 🤷🏻‍♂️

Players don’t need to be released by the NRL, the NRL can’t stop players from playing in Internationals. By not holding any Internationals we are pandering to the NRL clubs wishes, but they have no power to stop country’s playing International Rugby League. 

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3 hours ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

Players don’t need to be released by the NRL, the NRL can’t stop players from playing in Internationals. By not holding any Internationals we are pandering to the NRL clubs wishes, but they have no power to stop country’s playing International Rugby League. 

If that were all true the World Cup would be on

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5 hours ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

Players don’t need to be released by the NRL, the NRL can’t stop players from playing in Internationals. By not holding any Internationals we are pandering to the NRL clubs wishes, but they have no power to stop country’s playing International Rugby League. 

They pressured their players and made it next to impossible for the countries dependent on NRL players to field competitive teams, that's why it was postponed.  Did you somehow miss that?

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59 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

They pressured their players and made it next to impossible for the countries dependent on NRL players to field competitive teams, that's why it was postponed.  Did you somehow miss that?

 

3 hours ago, Spidey said:

If that were all true the World Cup would be on

The World Cup has been postponed because Australia and New Zealand withdrew from the tournament 

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27 minutes ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

 

The World Cup has been postponed because Australia and New Zealand withdrew from the tournament 

Its quite clear that there is a lot more to it than that and that the organisers were keen to continue without them. There is a World Cup thread where this has been discussed in depth. I'm not sure why you are completely ignoring everything that has been said the last 2 weeks.

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1 hour ago, Spidey said:

No it didn't, I'm not sure why you think that

Everyone's integrative capacity is different.

Some people can hold a lot of complexity and others can't.

It's human nature old boy and it was ever thus.

For every complex problem, there's a simple answer.

 

And it's wrong. 

Edited by fighting irish
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