Super League ready

[Tommygilf]

21 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Yep - I'm all for Super League becoming something different, I just don't think we can sleepwalk into it - it was always my challenge around my approach to Canada and France - we need to properly restructure to facilitate that, not just let them in if they win some games and see what happens. 

Even just the logistics make that almost impossible, and even though it is a pandemic, ultimately it was logistics that goosed us.

I totally agree.

The 2 Canadian clubs and 2 French clubs created a genuine possibility. Yet again a lack of strategy blighted the sport again.

[Harry Stottle]

1 hour ago, Davo5 said:

I’d happily do away with relegation if incumbent Superleague clubs were assessed on their suitability by an independent panel against an enforced set of criteria and if found wanting replaced by a Championship club who can satisfy that criteria.

It was supposedly an independent panel that put Leigh in SL, do you for one minute consider that the likes of Leneghan, McManus, Pearson would sanction any criteria that they have no influence on, I don't.

[Tommygilf]

2 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Totally agree, but you don't want that you want to protect some clubs from relegation.

Of course I do, because as I set out I do not want Super League to be the top of the British league system.

If it is to be the British League system, then Toulouse, Catalans and anyone else who is in should be full signed up members not second class guest citizens. We should also accept that the commercial possibilities would be lessened and that expectations for the French or where-ever national teams should not be burdened on them just as is the case with any other club who is trying first and foremost to stay in the division.

[Harry Stottle]

1 hour ago, tiffers said:

Great post Tommy. And very thought provoking.

The top tier identifies as the "European" SL, yet for all intent and purposes, behaves like a national competition (with the invited French team).

Off course it is and any other way it would be the tail wagging the dog, the name 'European' was an handle to make it look bigger than it actually is which as you simply put is the British game with some invitational clubs.

[Davo5]

41 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

It was supposedly an independent panel that put Leigh in SL, do you for one minute consider that the likes of Leneghan, McManus, Pearson would sanction any criteria that they have no influence on, I don't.

But those 3 you mention are owners of clubs that would in all likelihood meet the criteria,the owners of the habitual underperforming clubs would be the problem.

[Scubby]

51 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Yes I agree with that, but you want to protect some clubs from that fate, while campaigning for others to be subject to it irrespective of if they perform better than the protected club.

You are a businessman I believe Scubby, are there any limitations placed on your company not of your own making that prevents you performing your buisness practises for doing nothing wrong but performing to best of your abillity and getting the results you strive for? Telling a SL club that they are going to be relegated in favour of worse performing team would be like restricting your buisness in favour of a company that underperforms In comparrison.

If my business was losing money year on year I would be going to the drastic action white board and shaking things up big time - cut where ineffective and identifying growth areas. Not moving the same staff and furniture around the office.

[Harry Stottle]

4 minutes ago, Scubby said:

If my business was losing money year on year I would be going to the drastic action white board and shaking things up big time - cut where ineffective and identifying growth areas. Not moving the same staff and furniture around the office.

I said if it was outside influences that was preventing you doing your buisness, all of your staff has done everything possible and should have earned their bonus but someone has taken it away. 

[Scubby]

1 minute ago, Harry Stottle said:

I said if it was outside influences that was preventing you doing your buisness, all of your staff has done everything possible and should have earned their bonus but someone has taken it away. 

What outside influences are stopping RL in this country?

[Harry Stottle]

1 hour ago, Scubby said:

What outside influences are stopping RL in this country?

For gods sake Scubby, we are talking of one particular thing and that is the protectionist system you want to adopt in respect of ring fencing French Clubs from relegation, the outside influences would somebody letting that happen and clubs could be relegated who have performed better on the field and relegated just save the French clubs, bolux to that, all teams performing in the same division should be subject to relegation.

[yipyee]

12 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

Absolutely ridiculous Scubs, play in the same League, strive for the same prizes but not suffer the same consequences, total recipe for that system to be used and abused. Teams protected from relegation can influence the final league placings as much as they see fit, if results don't matter they can choose to play weakened teams in some games that could adversely affect other teams, think about it.

Like saints did twice against London?

lots of teams did this last year too.

Ultimately you can win the league from 6th so can do what you suggest at the top end. Castleford did it before wembley this year

[GUBRATS]

20 hours ago, Davo5 said:

But those 3 you mention are owners of clubs that would in all likelihood meet the criteria,the owners of the habitual underperforming clubs would be the problem.

So again for the millionth time , you want a 6 team SL ?

[GUBRATS]

11 hours ago, yipyee said:

Like saints did twice against London?

lots of teams did this last year too.

Ultimately you can win the league from 6th so can do what you suggest at the top end. Castleford did it before wembley this year

Yes , and if somebody else had been relegated as a result of Saints behaviour , do you think it would have been fair ? , If you as a club owner lost your place because if that , would you continue to finance your club ? , Or would you walk away ?

[GeordieSaint]

2 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

So again for the millionth time , you want a 6 team SL ?

I think there are enough clubs in the sport that would meet set criteria to play at the top level… say 10 teams if you include Catalan and Toulouse. You can still keep P&R but that same criteria would need to be met to promote. 
 

 

21 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

Of course I do, because as I set out I do not want Super League to be the top of the British league system.

I wholeheartedly agree with your idea to ring fence the French clubs in a European League. Makes absolute sense.

[GUBRATS]

2 minutes ago, GeordieSaint said:

I think there are enough clubs in the sport that would meet set criteria to play at the top level… say 10 teams if you include Catalan and Toulouse. You can still keep P&R but that same criteria would need to be met to promote. 
 

 

I wholeheartedly agree with your idea to ring fence the French clubs in a European League. Makes absolute sense.

Criteria ?

[GeordieSaint]

36 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Criteria ?

Yes. Minimum standards. 

[GUBRATS]

Just now, GeordieSaint said:

Yes. Minimum standards. 

Can of worms 

, You mean like , running an academy ?

[Davo5]

47 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

So again for the millionth time , you want a 6 team SL ?

Haven’t a clue what your on about 

[Harry Stottle]

12 hours ago, yipyee said:

Like saints did twice against London?

lots of teams did this last year too.

Ultimately you can win the league from 6th so can do what you suggest at the top end. Castleford did it before wembley this year

You can also send teams down if results don't matter to some clubs, they can play weaker teams in 'selected' games, it does not matter a jot were they finish in the League ladder.

You are correct about St Helens, I think a bullet was dodged with London losing on the last day of the season, if Wakefield, Salford or HKR had been relegated do you not think that they would have cried foul against the 'weakened' teams Saints put out that gifted 4 points to London, effectively keeping London in the relegation race, now before you say it that St Helen's did nothing wrong it was just implementing a squad rotation I will agree with that, but ethically for those clubs who were dragged into the "last day" it could have meant a lot of people becoming unemployed had they been relegated. 

I don't understand a lot of you guy's, when the 8's were being played and it came to the MPG, there were all kind of comments on this site about how unfair it was if a SL club got relegated as loads of lives would be adversely altered people were saying it could be a simple as the bounce of a ball, or a bad decision but ultimately they had the opportunity to avoid it.

But, in the situation of protecting clubs from relegation where to them RESULTS DO NOT MATTER that in multiple games throughout the season they could "do a St Helens" as often as they choose to, which could have a devastating adverse reaction to any particular club if results go against them and even if they finish above the ones excempt from jeapordy, this is exactly what could happen if the two French clubs are given that privaledge that they can't be relegated.

Talk about complete double standards that some of our posters have, it is nothing about what is right, or good for the game in France, it is about which club(s) is preferred, and I would bet the very same people would be saying that if a situation like in very recent times Leeds twice, Warrington and Catalan (but they would be exempt in this tinpot suggestion) have found themselves looking over the edge of relegation, if that were to happen again to a club of that standing, there would be calls from the very same posters that they cant be allowed to be relegated.

PS. If Toulouse are in the relegation spot next year, contrary to the title of this thread, like Leigh this season they will not be SL ready.

[Davo5]

51 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Yes , and if somebody else had been relegated as a result of Saints behaviour , do you think it would have been fair ? , If you as a club owner lost your place because if that , would you continue to finance your club ? , Or would you walk away ?

A club would have lost their place because they didn’t perform over the season,clubs rest players all the time,especially against teams at the wrong end of the table.

If a club owner walked away because of that then maybe he shouldn’t be a club owner.

[Gooleboy]

1 hour ago, GeordieSaint said:

Yes. Minimum standards. 

As at Wakefield and Castleford?

[Harry Stottle]

37 minutes ago, Davo5 said:

A club would have lost their place because they didn’t perform over the season,clubs rest players all the time,especially against teams at the wrong end of the table.

If a club owner walked away because of that then maybe he shouldn’t be a club owner.

Yes but in the point in question, being excempt from relegation quite the opposite can happen Dav, it could be a bottom team at the wrong end of the table playing weakened teams at any opportunity they wished to which could effect the season's outcome for others, and another point to it is any teams results against these protected club should they finish 2nd bottom and any of those protected finished bottom would not mean a jot, no 4 pointers against teams who have no jeapordy.

[Scubby]

4 minutes ago, Gooleboy said:

As at Wakefield and Castleford?

I think you mean bare minimum mate.

[Harry Stottle]

51 minutes ago, Davo5 said:

If a club owner walked away because of that then maybe he shouldn’t be a club owner.

I would totally agree with that Dav if the system in the league they were playing was equal for all,  but not if some teams were given preferential treatment, if my club was relegated after finishing higer than another team, I would think what is the point, and exit stage left.

[Scubby]

1 minute ago, Harry Stottle said:

Yes but in the point in question, being excempt from relegation quite the opposite can happen Dav, it could be a bottom team at the wrong end of the table playing weakened teams at any opportunity they wished to which could effect the season's outcome for others, and another point to it is any teams results against these protected club should they finish 2nd bottom and any of those protected finished bottom would not mean a jot, no 4 pointers against teams who have no jeapordy.

Leigh getting promotion this year (with exemption from relegation) could well have included some really exciting progressive signings for 2022+, longer term fan and commercial initiatives during the 2021 season which would have given fans hope to stick with it as the current crop are getting spanked each week. Relegation basically means thoughts turn to how interested is the owner in keeping going etc. 

[Harry Stottle]

3 minutes ago, Scubby said:

Leigh getting promotion this year (with exemption from relegation) could well have included some really exciting progressive signings for 2022+, longer term fan and commercial initiatives during the 2021 season which would have given fans hope to stick with it as the current crop are getting spanked each week. Relegation basically means thoughts turn to how interested is the owner in keeping going etc. 

We know that is not the way it should work, what would you have done in protecting Leigh, what would you have done relegate Wakefield, Salford or Huddersfield or whoever finished 11th? That is how daft it is Scubby.

Good try mate, but reading between the lines I can see that you are most probably trying to substantiate how you percieve Toulouse should be treated if they make SL.