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Gould proposes Semi professional summer league

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Sports Prophet

Sports Prophet

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Very interesting. I like the idea of a weekly 9s circuit being played over the course of say 10 weeks in the summer taking a full round of fixtures to single suburban and country venues.

Star players can play if they want, but open it up to predominantly upcoming stars and potentially bring in a few off season RU converts to play in the summer. Use all the same clubs that contest the NRL.

8 games a week at one venue in one evening. I would definitely go to that.

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The Great Dane

The Great Dane

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3 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

Very interesting. I like the idea of a weekly 9s circuit being played over the course of say 10 weeks in the summer taking a full round of fixtures to single suburban and country venues.

Star players can play if they want, but open it up to predominantly upcoming stars and potentially bring in a few off season RU converts to play in the summer. Use all the same clubs that contest the NRL.

8 games a week at one venue in one evening. I would definitely go to that.

And that's where any potential sustained fan interest went out the window.

If you are going to do a summer league, and take it seriously by trying to build it into in a commercial product in it's own right, then you need to use it to grow the sport and it's commercial opportunities, and you don't do that by playing Mickey Mouse glorified novelty exhibition matches between the NRL clubs that not even their fans really care about.

How you do that is you use it as a tool to appeal to an audience that is interested in RL but isn't catered to by the NRL, and that necessitates clubs that aren't a part of the Telstra Premiership.

Take a handful of traditional clubs like Norths that have a proven fanbase but are crying out for more exposure and a grander stage, put them in a summer league that has a reasonable broadcast deal on national FTA TV and just watch them draw 10k+ to North Sydney oval every second week to watch what is effectively a second grade competition.

Fill the rest of the comp out with expansion markets that are crying out for an the NRL club but aren't getting one anytime soon, e.g. places like Perth, and you've got yourself the makings of a league that has the potential to become a permanent fixture in the calendar and a success in it's own right. You could even use it as a testing ground for potential NRL clubs.

Of course Gould isn't talking about anything so grand, he's only really suggesting it as a one off because of the impact of COVID, which has merit IMO.

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Sports Prophet

Sports Prophet

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17 hours ago, The Great Dane said:

And that's where any potential sustained fan interest went out the window.

 

That’s a little overstated. I was interested in it. Fighting Irish seemed to like it. So “any sustained fan interest” did not go out the window.

Anyway, having thought about it, I figured it would be better off as a NSWRL thing. Using all the Sydney NRL clubs, Newtown, Norths, Canberra and Newcastle. if possible, include a Fiji, Tonga, Samoa and Maori team as well.

In my opinion, for this to work in expansion markets like Perth where there is only latent interest in 13 a side at best, you need to use existing clubs to give it credit.

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The Great Dane

The Great Dane

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2 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

That’s a little overstated. I was interested in it. Fighting Irish seemed to like it. So “any sustained fan interest” did not go out the window.

Anyway, having thought about it, I figured it would be better off as a NSWRL thing. Using all the Sydney NRL clubs, Newtown, Norths, Canberra and Newcastle. if possible, include a Fiji, Tonga, Samoa and Maori team as well.

Yeah lets make another novelty league like the World Sevens and NRL 9s, because they went great and didn't suffer from diminishing returns at all... Plenty of sustained interest lol.

2 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

In my opinion, for this to work in expansion markets like Perth where there is only latent interest in 13 a side at best, you need to use existing clubs to give it credit.

This attitude that everything revolves around the NRL and Sydney clubs is everything that is wrong with the game in Australia.

We know there's demand for RL in Perth even if it's just within the expat community. Give them a team with decent exposure, market it well, and people would come.

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Sports Prophet

Sports Prophet

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4 hours ago, The Great Dane said:

This attitude that everything revolves around the NRL and Sydney clubs is everything that is wrong with the game in Australia.

We know there's demand for RL in Perth even if it's just within the expat community. Give them a team with decent exposure, market it well, and people would come.

I disagree. Give them an NRL team yes. But whilst there isn’t one, then they don’t fit in my summer 9s vision.

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The Great Dane

The Great Dane

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On 13/08/2021 at 02:08, Sports Prophet said:

I disagree. Give them an NRL team yes. But whilst there isn’t one, then they don’t fit in my summer 9s vision.

Nobody fits in your 'summer 9s vision' because nobody would watch it after the novelty effect wears off.

If you want it to work you need a point of difference to sell to people, and trying to get the vast majority of NRL fans to watch their clubs' reserve graders run-around playing a Micky Mouse format ain't it, we know that because it's been tried. Engage underrepresented markets with proven demand, and start small with realistic expectations, then you've got potential to build something.

North Sydney Bears vs Wynnum Manly Seagulls playing in a national comp on Friday night in the summer would out sell and out rate NRL reserves playing 9s for one simple reason; the Bears and Seagulls fans would actually care about the competition.

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rlno1

rlno1

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On 12/08/2021 at 21:40, The Great Dane said:

Yeah lets make another novelty league like the World Sevens and NRL 9s, because they went great and didn't suffer from diminishing returns at all... Plenty of sustained interest lol.

This attitude that everything revolves around the NRL and Sydney clubs is everything that is wrong with the game in Australia.

We know there's demand for RL in Perth even if it's just within the expat community. Give them a team with decent exposure, market it well, and people would come.

The problem with the game in australia is the administration do what is best for tv first then the game...

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Sports Prophet

Sports Prophet

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On 26/08/2021 at 06:10, The Great Dane said:

Nobody fits in your 'summer 9s vision' because nobody would watch it after the novelty effect wears off.

If you want it to work you need a point of difference to sell to people, and trying to get the vast majority of NRL fans to watch their clubs' reserve graders run-around playing a Micky Mouse format ain't it, we know that because it's been tried. 

Don’t know what you recall about having tried it before, but it hasn’t.

These should be festivals. Events where you go for more than just the games. Much like Newtown organise for their home games… if you want to take a tried method.

I don’t envision North Sydney Bears v Wynnum Manly Seagulls drawing anymore attendees than a summer 9s series. Talk about being tried before, those clubs have been trying for decades to be relevant and have a following. 

So there you have it. I think you are wrong.

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The Great Dane

The Great Dane

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6 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

Don’t know what you recall about having tried it before, but it hasn’t.

So you're just going to pretend that the World Sevens, NRL Nines, and their multiple iterations never happened?

You know those those festival events where people went for more than just the games, that were reasonably successful for a year or two, then died a death after the novelty effect wore off.

So I don't just think you are wrong, we know objectively that you are wrong because literally exactly what you are suggesting has been tried multiple times in multiple iterations and has always failed to live up to expectations, and you know what they say; the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results.

And of course the second tier clubs have struggled to maintain a following over the last few decades, they get no support from the NRL and have next to no exposure. It's very hard to sell a product that 90+% of the average punters don't even realise exists. But if you increased that exposure by placing them into a national competition that's broadcast at reasonable times with FTA exposure, and isn't in direct competition with the NRL or AFL, then that could change everything not only for those clubs but for the whole way that people interact with the sport.

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Sports Prophet

Sports Prophet

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I think you are drastically underselling a very large proportion of those 90% of RL fans you’re claiming, if you think they don’t know about North Sydney Bears and WM Seagulls.

I think the Nines has been successful. Except for that poor end of season international version. Woeful. Be thankful you know little about the SL version some 8 years ago. That was the pits.

Most importantly, you are comparing one off events, where I am proposing something different than has been seen before. 

9s festivals in daylight savings hours, off season, players of the future, craft brewers, fancy street food, local bands. I reckon that pulls up to 5k each round. I think that would be a pretty good pull in the summer.

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unapologetic pedant

unapologetic pedant

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11 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

I think the Nines has been successful. Except for that poor end of season international version. Woeful. 

Just how closely did you follow the 2019 World 9s?

It wasn`t well-attended. As we know all too well, Aussie RL "fans" find the concept of international RL as perplexing as quantum physics. Those with an AFL mindset will have an additional barrier to comprehension.

I would recommend you check out the women`s final in which the Kiwi Ferns beat the Jillaroos. Very entertaining game. One of many in the tournament.

11 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

9s festivals in daylight savings hours, off season, players of the future, craft brewers, fancy street food, local bands. I reckon that pulls up to 5k each round. I think that would be a pretty good pull in the summer.

A better chance to pull could well be an extra pull in hotter temperatures once the ale is flowing.

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The Great Dane

The Great Dane

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23 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

I think you are drastically underselling a very large proportion of those 90% of RL fans you’re claiming, if you think they don’t know about North Sydney Bears and WM Seagulls.

I didn't say that 90% of RL fans don't know the Bears and Seagulls exist (though it'd surprise you how few people outside of Queensland could name any of the QRL clubs), I said they didn't know the product exists, i.e. they'd couldn't tell you where or when their games are on or how to consume them.

You're right though, I am underselling it, it'd be more like 95+% of average fans that haven't got a clue about anything outside of the NRL and SOO...

23 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

I think the Nines has been successful. Except for that poor end of season international version. Woeful. Be thankful you know little about the SL version some 8 years ago. That was the pits.

Most importantly, you are comparing one off events, where I am proposing something different than has been seen before. 

9s festivals in daylight savings hours, off season, players of the future, craft brewers, fancy street food, local bands. I reckon that pulls up to 5k each round. I think that would be a pretty good pull in the summer.

The 2020 NRL Nines had a total of 24.8k people attend over both days. I can't find the numbers now, but I remember that it's ratings were noted for how ###### they were.

The Auckland Nines held between 2014-17 suffered really badly from diminishing returns with attendance dropping from 89k in 2014 to just 22k in 2017, and again I remember that their ratings suffered really badly by the end as well.

All of those events were played in the offseason, all were played in daylight savings hours, all of them had players of the future, bands, a festival atmosphere, etc, etc, and yet they still slowly, but steadily, shrunk into irrelevance.

Yet you want to take that concept, strip all the star players out of it, and play it weekly over 10 weeks!? Are you mad?

The 5k crowds you are expecting probably wouldn't even cover the salaries of the 240 participating players and all the coaching and support staff, let alone all the other costs associated with hosting such events. So it's not even realistic on that level.

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The Great Dane

The Great Dane

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12 hours ago, unapologetic pedant said:

Just how closely did you follow the 2019 World 9s?

It wasn`t well-attended. As we know all too well, Aussie RL "fans" find the concept of international RL as perplexing as quantum physics. Those with an AFL mindset will have an additional barrier to comprehension.

I would recommend you check out the women`s final in which the Kiwi Ferns beat the Jillaroos. Very entertaining game. One of many in the tournament.

The problem is much worse than Australian RL fans not understanding international RL. If the problem was that simple it'd be an easy fix.

No the problem is that they are totally apathetic towards it's existence, and that's not a problem that the NRL, or anybody else in Australia, can simply go out and change.

12 hours ago, unapologetic pedant said:

A better chance to pull could well be an extra pull in hotter temperatures once the ale is flowing.

The NRL couldn't even do the craft brewers thing. It'd almost certainly put them in breach of their contracts with their alcohol partners.

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Sports Prophet

Sports Prophet

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7 hours ago, The Great Dane said:

The 2020 NRL Nines had a total of 24.8k people attend over both days. I can't find the numbers now, but I remember that it's ratings were noted for how ###### they were.

——

The 5k crowds you are expecting probably wouldn't even cover the salaries of the 240 participating players and all the coaching and support staff, let alone all the other costs associated with hosting such events. So it's not even realistic on that level.

You can’t claim the 2020 9s in Perth or the 2019 Int 9s in Parramatta were suitably organised events. 

Both those events are great examples, not of a failed concept, but of a failed execution.

6 hours ago, The Great Dane said:

The NRL couldn't even do the craft brewers thing. It'd almost certainly put them in breach of their contracts with their alcohol partners.

Funny enough, that is why I noted NSWRL as the organiser. There are less commercial contractual obligations that will hamper the event.

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The Great Dane

The Great Dane

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10 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

You can’t claim the 2020 9s in Perth or the 2019 Int 9s in Parramatta were suitably organised events. 

Both those events are great examples, not of a failed concept, but of a failed execution.

I'm sorry, didn't I cherry pick the examples to your liking?!

I also love how you've chosen to ignore the 75% drop in attendance over 4 years that the Auckland Nines suffered as well. Or is that example not up to your high standards either?

I also know for a fact that the World Sevens suffered a similar fate, I just can't find hard numbers for it because it was so long ago. So yeah why don't we talk about them as well? The 03 and 04 editions in particular were worse than a joke.

You can pretend it doesn't exist all you like, but pretty much all the evidence shows that your idea would be wildly popular for about a week, but would be totally irrelevant by the end of the competition.

10 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

Funny enough, that is why I noted NSWRL as the organiser. There are less commercial contractual obligations that will hamper the event.

So Toohey's won't enforce their deal with the NSWRL?

The NSWRL have just as many commercial contractual obligations as the NRL do...

Besides, you're living in fantasyland again if you think that the NSWRL has the means to organise such a competition played between the NRL clubs and other nations independent of the NRL.

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Sports Prophet

Sports Prophet

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15 hours ago, The Great Dane said:

I'm sorry, didn't I cherry pick the examples to your liking?!

I also love how you've chosen to ignore the 75% drop in attendance over 4 years that the Auckland Nines suffered as well. Or is that example not up to your high standards either?

I also know for a fact that the World Sevens suffered a similar fate, I just can't find hard numbers for it because it was so long ago. So yeah why don't we talk about them as well? The 03 and 04 editions in particular were worse than a joke.

You can pretend it doesn't exist all you like, but pretty much all the evidence shows that your idea would be wildly popular for about a week, but would be totally irrelevant by the end of the competition.

So Toohey's won't enforce their deal with the NSWRL?

The NSWRL have just as many commercial contractual obligations as the NRL do...

Besides, you're living in fantasyland again if you think that the NSWRL has the means to organise such a competition played between the NRL clubs and other nations independent of the NRL.

The Newtown Jets seem to get around any NSWRL Tooheys contract for their home games in the… ahh forget it. 

You’re right. I’m wrong 🤣

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