French clubs spreading the word

[The Future is League]

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/aug/13/dominance-of-catalans-and-toulouse-driving-league-to-a-wider-audience

[Blind side johnny]

Shhhhh!

They are foreign and have no place in our league.

[The Future is League]

6 minutes ago, Blind side johnny said:

Shhhhh!

They are foreign and have no place in our league.

To be honest there are some involved in the game in this country that probably thinks that and we wonder why crowds and TV audience's are dropping. 

[Mumby Magic]

Time for a third team in the system????

[owls]

1 hour ago, The Future is League said:

To be honest there are some involved in the game in this country that probably thinks that and we wonder why crowds and TV audience's are dropping. 

And that is the saddest thing that many do think  like that, , after all it is supposed to be SL  Europe  not a rebranded division 1,  Toulouse have been shafted from day 1,

[Whippet13]

2 hours ago, owls said:

And that is the saddest thing that many do think  like that, , after all it is supposed to be SL  Europe  not a rebranded division 1,  Toulouse have been shafted from day 1,

Well the SL clubs certainly think like that. The infamous Toronto report referred to bringing no "short or medium term strategic value" to SL. Putting aside the many and valid arguments both for and against TWP, that report ignored any reference to long term strategic value, good or bad, because SL simply doesnt think or plan that far ahead.

SL wont want Toulouse in SL because of the disruption / cost of going to France plus the cheeky buggers seem very well resourced so just might upset the applecart by not finishing last next season. I have no doubt the SL powerbrokers are already looking at ways to hamstring Toulouse should they go up.

Featherstone promoted will be their preference, a plucky and heroic little club, but in reality another lame duck to pick off every week to protect the cabal, just like Leigh this year with their disgraceful 50% central funding.

[The Rocket]

21 minutes ago, Whippet13 said:

Well the SL clubs certainly think like that. The infamous Toronto report referred to bringing no "short or medium term strategic value" to SL. Putting aside the many and valid arguments both for and against TWP, that report ignored any reference to long term strategic value, good or bad, because SL simply doesnt think or plan that far ahead.

SL wont want Toulouse in SL because of the disruption / cost of going to France plus the cheeky buggers seem very well resourced so just might upset the applecart by not finishing last next season. I have no doubt the SL powerbrokers are already looking at ways to hamstring Toulouse should they go up.

Featherstone promoted will be their preference, a plucky and heroic little club, but in reality another lame duck to pick off every week to protect the cabal, just like Leigh this year with their disgraceful 50% central funding.

If that is true and my god it makes depressing reading, Gubrats is right, we are all doomed.

[lucky 7]

12 hours ago, The Future is League said:

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/aug/13/dominance-of-catalans-and-toulouse-driving-league-to-a-wider-audience

 

12 hours ago, Blind side johnny said:

Shhhhh!

They are foreign and have no place in our league.

 

11 hours ago, owls said:

And that is the saddest thing that many do think  like that, , after all it is supposed to be SL  Europe  not a rebranded division 1,  Toulouse have been shafted from day 1,

 

8 hours ago, Whippet13 said:

Well the SL clubs certainly think like that. The infamous Toronto report referred to bringing no "short or medium term strategic value" to SL. Putting aside the many and valid arguments both for and against TWP, that report ignored any reference to long term strategic value, good or bad, because SL simply doesnt think or plan that far ahead.

SL wont want Toulouse in SL because of the disruption / cost of going to France plus the cheeky buggers seem very well resourced so just might upset the applecart by not finishing last next season. I have no doubt the SL powerbrokers are already looking at ways to hamstring Toulouse should they go up.

Featherstone promoted will be their preference, a plucky and heroic little club, but in reality another lame duck to pick off every week to protect the cabal, just like Leigh this year with their disgraceful 50% central funding.

 

8 hours ago, The Rocket said:

If that is true and my god it makes depressing reading, Gubrats is right, we are all doomed.

I fear for the future of our game IF Toulouse win the Championship Grand Final and are not promoted on some bogus claim. This would send out a message that we just want to a M.62 corridor game in the UK, which will have next to no appeal to TV and sponsors. If the people who run the game in this country can't see that they are dumber than dumb

[The Rocket]

3 minutes ago, lucky 7 said:

 

 

 

 

I fear for the future of our game IF Toulouse win the Championship Grand Final and are not promoted on some bogus claim. This would send out a message that we just want to a M.62 corridor game in the UK, which will have next to no appeal to TV and sponsors. If the people who run the game in this country can't see that they are dumber than dumb

I refuse to believe it could happen, but then again I also refused to believe that the NRL wouldn`t send a team to the WC.

Shoot yourself in the foot once, okay that`s bad enough, but to then shoot yourself in the other foot, well it`s Monty Pythonesque.

[nadera78]

12 hours ago, Mumby Magic said:

Time for a third team in the system????

Avignon ticks all the boxes; a good size city, with name recognition, additional population centres very close by, strong history of RL in both the city and surrounding area, has had excellent crowds for internationals, and there are no rival pro sports teams in the city. Plus, if we're smart, we could use the 2025 RLWC as a vehicle to get the stadium rebuilt to a SL standard.

[lucky 7]

4 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

Toulouse will be allowed up.  There's a desire from the broadcaster for bigger games and a better product.  

After the stunt pulled with Leigh they are on notice.  Plus I think it is the smaller teams  (Wakey,  Salford, Hud) who would be most hostile whilst the bigger teams know the product is in trouble and this is a free win to change the image and narrative before a new tv deal. 

So if it went to a vote I've got Wigan, St's, Leeds, Hull, Wire in favour. Salford, Wakefield against and a handful (Cas Hud KR) who could go either way.  

I hope your right that Toulouse will be allowed into Super League IF they win the ChanpiomshipGrand Final

[Harry Stottle]

13 hours ago, Blind side johnny said:

Shhhhh!

They are foreign and have no place in our league.

 

13 hours ago, The Future is League said:

To be honest there are some involved in the game in this country that probably thinks that and we wonder why crowds and TV audience's are dropping. 

Just maybe because of my debate on the 'Super League Ready Thread' those comments could be directed at me, but nothing could be further from the truth, If French clubs are performing in our League system I have nothing whatsoever against that in fact I welcome it, were I do draw the line is if we are continuing with a P&R system is that they recieve no preferential treatment in being exempt from relegation, they should be playing for both the gongs and also striving to avoid jeopardy.

[The Rocket]

12 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

If we are doing this we need to create a pathway from Elite 1 to SL.  

But yeah Avignon keeps the southern belt growing and the wider area is about 250000 people. Isnt there a football team though. 

250 000 isn`t a real lot of people though, unless it`s a wealthy area that would be able to generate enough income through sponsorship and backers etc.

I think about 1/2 million size population centres is what we should be looking at to support Super League teams. 

[Harry Stottle]

11 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

If we are doing this we need to create a pathway from Elite 1 to SL.  

But yeah Avignon keeps the southern belt growing and the wider area is about 250000 people. Isnt there a football team though. 

We have one already it is called the Championship,

SL is the top division in our League system, French Clubs apply to join our league system, the better Elite 1 clubs are no better on the field than our top League 1 and bottom Championship teams, and certainly no where near the top Championship teams, could you imagine even if we went to a play-off system for the winners of the Championship GF playing the Elite 1 Champions for a place in SL it would be a disaster for the French Clubs.

Whichever way you want to dress it up, the French League system is miles adrift of our domestic comp, it will take a very long time and millions of Euros for the infrastructure in France to get anywhere near matching it. 

So how do you suggest this pathway is created?

[Harry Stottle]

3 minutes ago, The Rocket said:

250 000 isn`t a real lot of people though, unless it`s a wealthy area that would be able to generate enough income through sponsorship and backers etc.

I think about 1/2 million size population centres is what we should be looking at to support Super League teams. 

Rules all but Leeds out from the SL then, Hull as over 300K but supports 2 SL clubs, even Wigan, Saints and Warrington combined is under 500K and at the prent time you can throw Leigh into the equation of being in the same geographical area and it still doesn't reach 1/2 million population, the cities of Wakefield and Salford are miles behind leaving Huddersfield 150K and Castleford at 40K even in France Perpignan gone of Catalan Dragons is less than 125K.

[The Daddy]

9 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

Rules out Newcastle then who I think are big enough. 

In France there's only París  (definately no) Marseille (a city with a lot of problems) and Lyon who would fit the bill.  

Even the 7th biggest city and ideal location Montpellier has only 250000 in the city. 

The Tyneside-Wearside area population is 1.650 million not to mention the wider north east region, come on now stop playing dumb

[The Daddy]

Just now, ShropshireBull said:

But how many are actually going to travel from Sunderland to watch Newcastle.  

There's not being dumb and there's being realistic.  250000 is roughly same area as Wigan and Hull , which supports two of our bigger teams.  

We're very lucky Toulouse want in but 250000 pop is fine. 

The catchment area of Newcastle Thunder covers way more than 300,000 if we were to take your approach very few cities would qualify on the basis that the City centre population is less than 500k.

 

[voteronniegibbs]

.

[The Daddy]

5 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

Which if you see the comment I was responding to,  was my point.  Medium sized cities are fine.  

 

No that's not really your point. You don't understand or deliberately pretend not to understand that quantifying the size of a city on it's city centre population is meaningless. It's the regional population or metropolitan population that is most significant 

[The Daddy]

13 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

This is the second time on seperate posts you didnt bother to read so going to stick you on mute.  Tyneside Wearside as a metropolitan area is meaningless in terms of potential spectators.  Hardly anyone would travel from Sunderland to Newcastle to watch Thunder. 

Why is it meaningless....coz you said so? 

The point remains that counting a city centre population when the metropolitan and regional area is much larger is pointless. Whether you think people from Sunderland will go to games or not is irrelevant 

[JM2010]

1 hour ago, Harry Stottle said:

We have one already it is called the Championship,

SL is the top division in our League system, French Clubs apply to join our league system, the better Elite 1 clubs are no better on the field than our top League 1 and bottom Championship teams, and certainly no where near the top Championship teams, could you imagine even if we went to a play-off system for the winners of the Championship GF playing the Elite 1 Champions for a place in SL it would be a disaster for the French Clubs.

Whichever way you want to dress it up, the French League system is miles adrift of our domestic comp, it will take a very long time and millions of Euros for the infrastructure in France to get anywhere near matching it. 

So how do you suggest this pathway is created?

Elite 1 would have to align with League 1 for there to be a pathway. They could then play off for a spot in the Championship. However, I'm not sure there are many Elite 1 clubs that could step up to compete in the Championship. 

 

[Mumby Magic]

We keep going on about changing structures, divisions, meat raffles etc yet one answer may be staring us in the face. However what Nadera suggested of using the RLWC as a springboard for another team needs one thing ..... Planning. This is RL after all.

[Barley Mow]

1 hour ago, ShropshireBull said:

...But yeah Avignon keeps the southern belt growing and the wider area is about 250000 people. Isnt there a football team though. 

Avivgnon is very much a RL city. The football club was from Arles.

They got promoted 4 times in five years and when they reached the top flight in 2010, decided they needed a bigger fan base, changed their name and moved to Avignon. A stadium was renovated for them in Avignon to hold 17,000, but they folded in 2016.

SO Avignon XIII now play in that stadium and are the city's only major sports team.

[voteronniegibbs]

.

[Harry Stottle]

1 hour ago, Barley Mow said:

Avivgnon is very much a RL city. The football club was from Arles.

They got promoted 4 times in five years and when they reached the top flight in 2010, decided they needed a bigger fan base, changed their name and moved to Avignon. A stadium was renovated for them in Avignon to hold 17,000, but they folded in 2016.

SO Avignon XIII now play in that stadium and are the city's only major sports team.

This is an honest question, what kind of attendances do Avignon XIII recieve, is it well supported in the city?