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Can Bradford Bulls be a real force again?


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22 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

It’s not an RL city - nowhere is - but there’s still a lot of interest in the game and despite everything, quite a bit of casual interest if the occasion merits it. 

Not now ,but years ago traditionally 

 Soon we will be dancing the fandango
FROM 2004,TO DO WHAT THIS CLUB HAS DONE,IF THATS NOT GREATNESSTHEN i DONT KNOW WHAT IS.

JAMIE PEACOCK

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The game against Leeds not covered by a season ticket in CC shows their is still a market there but when your grounds costs you money, let alone not making you cash.  Theres the problem.  

Still this season will be our highest finish in years and just like Widnes the worst does seem behind us. 

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3 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

Why does their fan base deserve it ?

Because they are sizeable, passionate and have stuck with the team through thick and thin. Many have put their hands in their own pockets to try to keep the club going. It's not their fault they've had a succession of dodgy owners who've not been transparent about what's really going on. 

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1 hour ago, Johnoco said:

Interesting how you seem to know so much about Bradford despite living in a village in Lancashire.

My opinions on Odsal are from visiting and the ongoing costs of maintaining a stadium like Hilton Park 20 years ago 

My opinion on other Bradford ' issues ' including those involving Bradford City FC are mostly due to opinions expressed on here and other RL MBs by Bradford fans 

Feel free to educate me more if you wish 

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14 minutes ago, OriginalMrC said:

Because they are sizeable, passionate and have stuck with the team through thick and thin. Many have put their hands in their own pockets to try to keep the club going. It's not their fault they've had a succession of dodgy owners who've not been transparent about what's really going on. 

They were sizeable when the club was spending money that was supposed to maintain and develop Odsal on a top class influx of overseas players , and tickets were either free or unsustainably cheap , resulting in them winning trophy's , once that ended so did the sizeable fan base 

Yes they've had both dodgy and out of their depth owners since , it in truth without a new suitable stadium facility in Bradford I don't see how they can turn things round , I feel for them , an LSV type stadium even if it wasn't actually theirs could see them build again 

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1 hour ago, fieldofclothofgold said:

I believe Leicester has a large Asian population, but theyve got a relatively successful football team with quite a wealthy owner 

That was exactly the example I was thinking of where this has been successful. 

 

 

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35 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

They were sizeable when the club was spending money that was supposed to maintain and develop Odsal on a top class influx of overseas players , and tickets were either free or unsustainably cheap , resulting in them winning trophy's , once that ended so did the sizeable fan base 

Yes they've had both dodgy and out of their depth owners since , it in truth without a new suitable stadium facility in Bradford I don't see how they can turn things round , I feel for them , an LSV type stadium even if it wasn't actually theirs could see them build again 

The fan base is still as big as several SL teams, including your own. And this is after everything.

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11 hours ago, OriginalMrC said:

Because they are sizeable, passionate and have stuck with the team through thick and thin. Many have put their hands in their own pockets to try to keep the club going. It's not their fault they've had a succession of dodgy owners who've not been transparent about what's really going on. 

3,500 seems to be the hardcore "base". About 3k stopped coming to games when we dropped from SL to Championship. And we've lost about 1k per admin event over the last 7years. The last group of potential fans need to be able to trust the board before/if they return. The other group may just need SL standard games to return. Or they could be lost to professional RL for good. I know a fair few switched to watching amateur RL. A lot found other things to do on a Sunday afternoon. 

But, the potential is still there. Needs a period of stability. 

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37 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

If Bulls by a miracle got bk into SL I would bet on 6k average first season and maybe grow from there. 

Just have to keep plugging away,  getting CC  runs for exposure and hope it comes together one year. 

The ownership of the club is pretty guarded but it does give the impression of live within your means. Whether that is enough to help Bradford grow (with the stadium costing so much) is a tricky question. The pitch turf haggling and pleading poverty is the new norm I think - although Kear is working well with a pretty decent squad.

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15 hours ago, Johnoco said:

Not everyone in Bradford is skint, there are still plenty of people with money to spend. And Bradford City are getting very good crowds from the same people.

This is something that has been bothering me for a while, I think it was our Canadian friend Big Picture, who seemed to delight in mentioning impoverished Northern towns and it does seem to get trotted out a lot.

Impoverishment or ` skint` is a relative term, being in the lower income brackets in a country like England, a first world economy, is a little different to being in the lower income brackets of second or third world countries.

Even less well off people in first-world countries usually have all the trappings, I`m talking mobile phones, mobile phone plans, internet, televisions and white goods, cars, etc. etc. etc .All the things that sponsors want to sell.

Over here Hi-Sense, a Chinese manufacturer of `cheaper` television and white goods is a sponsor of the NRL, they know their market and they know what they are watching. 

I had a look at the population figures of Bradford, I get two, one I gather is for Bradford city itself, ~290 000, and ~550 000 for what I gather is the wider area. These are not numbers to be sneezed at, lower income brackets or not.

 

 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, The Rocket said:

This is something that has been bothering me for a while, I think it was our Canadian friend Big Picture, who seemed to delight in mentioning impoverished Northern towns and it does seem to get trotted out a lot.

Impoverishment or ` skint` is a relative term, being in the lower income brackets in a country like England, a first world economy, is a little different to being in the lower income brackets of second or third world countries.

Even less well off people in first-world countries usually have all the trappings, I`m talking mobile phones, mobile phone plans, internet, televisions and white goods, cars, etc. etc. etc .All the things that sponsors want to sell.

Over here Hi-Sense, a Chinese manufacturer of `cheaper` television and white goods is a sponsor of the NRL, they know their market and they know what they are watching. 

I had a look at the population figures of Bradford, I get two, one I gather is for Bradford city itself, ~290 000, and ~550 000 for what I gather is the wider area. These are not numbers to be sneezed at, lower income brackets or not.

 

 

 

 

The larger number is the Bradford Metropolitan District, which includes areas not traditionally 'Bradford' but are governed by the council now. Either way it's a big city. Most of the millionaires have left that's true but even so, not everyone is potless. 

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22 hours ago, Whippet13 said:

Yes, they have huge and very realisable potential and SL needs them back as soon as possible - by which I mean when they have stable ownership and finances in place. As an outsider the club seems to be steadily going in the right direction in those regards and also building a steadily improving team on the pitch. SL is a poorer competition without them, I hope they get back soon.

Coming up to 5 years without a major financial event which is certainly a positive. Let's hope it continues. 

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1 hour ago, TrueBull said:

3,500 seems to be the hardcore "base". About 3k stopped coming to games when we dropped from SL to Championship. And we've lost about 1k per admin event over the last 7years. The last group of potential fans need to be able to trust the board before/if they return. The other group may just need SL standard games to return. Or they could be lost to professional RL for good. I know a fair few switched to watching amateur RL. A lot found other things to do on a Sunday afternoon. 

But, the potential is still there. Needs a period of stability. 

When HKR were languishing with us in NL1 in the early 00s their crowds were down to 1500/1800 , but it was always apparent if they made SL and stayed there their dormant support would return , Bradford are probably in a similar situation , although I doubt we'd ever see the 10K + we saw during Bullmania 

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1 hour ago, Johnoco said:

The larger number is the Bradford Metropolitan District, which includes areas not traditionally 'Bradford' but are governed by the council now. Either way it's a big city. Most of the millionaires have left that's true but even so, not everyone is potless. 

  About 530.000 in Bradford of which about 140.000 are Asian or British Asian.We cant seem to attract the Asian community into our game.Ikram Butt has tried with very limited success.If Bradford could attract only 3% of the Asian community to matches and involvement in the game that would be another 4000 spectators.However it is a difficult task.

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1 minute ago, sentoffagain2 said:

  About 530.000 in Bradford of which about 140.000 are Asian or British Asian.We cant seem to attract the Asian community into our game.Ikram Butt has tried with very limited success.If Bradford could attract only 3% of the Asian community to matches and involvement in the game that would be another 4000 spectators.However it is a difficult task.

What have Bradford done to attract the Asian community? Is there work done in the schools?

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14 minutes ago, sentoffagain2 said:

  About 530.000 in Bradford of which about 140.000 are Asian or British Asian.We cant seem to attract the Asian community into our game.Ikram Butt has tried with very limited success.If Bradford could attract only 3% of the Asian community to matches and involvement in the game that would be another 4000 spectators.However it is a difficult task.

In Sydney there are competitions run between teams that come solely out of the different Asian communities, they`re not going up against the often bigger and stronger other nationalities that mostly play Rugby League.

Also recently a team made up of Vietnamese Australians won a large Touch Football (Rugby League) tournament over here beating a much more highly fancied side from Tamworth in the final, I`ll bet they all follow the NRL.

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46 minutes ago, Damien said:

What have Bradford done to attract the Asian community? Is there work done in the schools?

I think so but even so, in the early days of the Bulls I remember seeing bunches of Asian kids at games. Almost certainly there on freebies but nonetheless there. There have been other things and I recall they signed a young Asian lad as a prop but that mustn't have worked out. I just don't think it appeals to them on a wide scale, sad to say. 

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56 minutes ago, Damien said:

What have Bradford done to attract the Asian community? Is there work done in the schools?

Compare and contrast: Bangla Bantams: Bringing 'inclusivity' to the game - BBC News

with whatever Bradford Bulls may have done.

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Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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3 hours ago, The Rocket said:

This is something that has been bothering me for a while, I think it was our Canadian friend Big Picture, who seemed to delight in mentioning impoverished Northern towns and it does seem to get trotted out a lot.

Impoverishment or ` skint` is a relative term, being in the lower income brackets in a country like England, a first world economy, is a little different to being in the lower income brackets of second or third world countries.

Even less well off people in first-world countries usually have all the trappings, I`m talking mobile phones, mobile phone plans, internet, televisions and white goods, cars, etc. etc. etc .All the things that sponsors want to sell.

Over here Hi-Sense, a Chinese manufacturer of `cheaper` television and white goods is a sponsor of the NRL, they know their market and they know what they are watching. 

I had a look at the population figures of Bradford, I get two, one I gather is for Bradford city itself, ~290 000, and ~550 000 for what I gather is the wider area. These are not numbers to be sneezed at, lower income brackets or not.

Absolutely, but you've then got to look at the market share and how cost effective a sponsorship is.

Looking at the regular RL market, how easy are they to reach in other (often cheaper) ways? What is the value of a sponsorship? Who else is wanting to sponsor these events/clubs/leagues? The big companies are reaching the people they want, they're just not choosing RL to do it through.

That's why we have Dacia, not Land Rover. We had Izuzu (until that went to Union too). Even then that is the league wide sponsors, its even smaller in scale from the clubs. We have a hyper local outlook in most cases and unlike Union or Cricket we just don't have the weight of support in the top boardrooms in the country who are happy to throw a bit of money at a team for a few corporate days. We're potentially a good platform for emerging brands to step onto before they start appearing with the top events and football clubs. 

We're 3rd or 4th division football level in a limited area of England. Comparing us with the NRL is apples and oranges. I know because the company you mention, Hisense, do sponsor a team in Leeds (and probably see the similar marketing reasons for doing so as with the NRL); but that team plays soccer.

We absolutely do not make enough of our predicament however. So many brands want to be attached with good news stories and social activism in poorer communities - which RL is firmly rooted in in the north of England. Take Wakefield, 3 amateur RL clubs near the centre; Stanley, Eastmoor and Crigglestone. Compared with the RU club in the city, Sandal. I'll let you work out which part of the city is where the Drs and Solicitors live and which are in the more deprived areas. Yet we don't seem to be able to engage these brands outside of the 2021 World Cup organisers. We absolutely have an excellent selling point about doing good in the community, but seem utterly unable to build on that.

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