Autumn Internationals

[Big Picture]

59 minutes ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

The qualification rules in football (listed below) sound rather similar to ours as do Rugby Union, Rugby League fans need to just get over it. 

shall be eligible to play for the new representative team only if he fulfils one of the following conditions:
a) He was born on the territory of the relevant association;
b) His biological mother or biological father was born on the territory of the relevant association;
c) His grandmother or grandfather was born on the territory of the relevant association;
d) He has lived continuously for at least five years after reaching the age of 18 on the territory of the relevant association.

Soccer and RU are just two of the many team sports which have Internationals.  That's a far cry from "every other sport".  The rest generally use citizenship and they also don't allow players to change from one country to another.

[Sir Kevin Sinfield]

21 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

Soccer and RU are just two of the many team sports which have Internationals.  That's a far cry from "every other sport".  The rest generally use citizenship and they also don't allow players to change from one country to another.

Along with Cricket, which again is virtually the same rules for representing a Nation at International level, they are the sports people actually watch at International level. We have the same rules and Rugby League fans that don’t like us playing Internationals need to get over it.

It’s incredibly disrespectful to the likes of Ashton Golding, Micheal Lawrence, Omari Caro, Greg Johnson, Ross Peltier and Ben Jones-Bishop, as well as everyone involved with Jamaica Rugby League domestically to call them things like a tin pot side or fake International team.

[gingerjon]

19 minutes ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

Along with Cricket, which again is virtually the same rules for representing a Nation at International level, they are the sports people actually watch at International level. We have the same rules and Rugby League fans that don’t like us playing Internationals need to get over it.

It’s incredibly disrespectful to the likes of Ashton Golding, Micheal Lawrence, Omari Caro, Greg Johnson, Ross Peltier and Ben Jones-Bishop, as well as everyone involved with Jamaica Rugby League domestically to call them things like a tin pot side or fake International team.

Football, RU and cricket (as examples) are now far stricter on players moving between countries - even between top level and non top level.

Part of the reason we come across so badly is that the gaps between matches are so long and we never know when the next game is going to be so there are several players who will only be able to play internationals if they leave their options open.

[Big Picture]

15 minutes ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

Along with Cricket, which again is virtually the same rules for representing a Nation at International level, they are the sports people actually watch at International level. We have the same rules and Rugby League fans that don’t like us playing Internationals need to get over it.

It’s incredibly disrespectful to the likes of Ashton Golding, Micheal Lawrence, Omari Caro, Greg Johnson, Ross Peltier and Ben Jones-Bishop, as well as everyone involved with Jamaica Rugby League domestically to call them things like a tin pot side or fake International team.

So you don't think anyone watches the sports which are in the Olympics at International level eh?  What planet do you live on?

The fact is that even in those other sports which you mentioned, teams only ever have a few heritage players augmenting a lineup primarily comprised of domestically-produced players.  RL is unique (and not in a good way) in having whole teams made up entirely of heritage players and that's why those teams get labelled as fake or tin pot teams.  Unfortunately for those players whom you listed there, Jamaica is in that category.  I'd respect those players appearing for Jamaica far more if they legitimized themselves by taking out Jamaican citizenship.

[Sir Kevin Sinfield]

22 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

The fact is that even in those other sports which you mentioned, teams only ever have a few heritage players augmenting a lineup primarily comprised of domestically-produced players. 

Not true

https://www.americasrugbynews.com/2021/02/03/foreign-born-produced-players-in-2021-six-nations/ 

[theswanmcr]

The heritage issue, as demonstrated by a number of posters in terms of other sports, is the least of our issues.

To be taken seriously as an international sport we need to at the very least:

1) Play internationals. Not just a few at the end of season but a proper 3/4 games in the middle too. No reason why we can’t do this, play less club games and offer an attractive Northern Hemisphere international tournament to broadcasters.

England should be playing 6 or 7 games minimum a year (as should every nation) like most major sports. It really isn’t a lot to ask.

2) Play internationals in each nation. Scotland should play in Scotland (not Featherstone or anywhere else if at ‘home’).

[Big Picture]

16 minutes ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

Not true

https://www.americasrugbynews.com/2021/02/03/foreign-born-produced-players-in-2021-six-nations/ 

In fact what I said is true.  That account doesn't break out the numbers of foreign-born players who qualify by heritage, it lumps them and other players who qualify by residency in together.

It states that 144 foreign-born players played in the 2019 RUWC, a tournament in which 20 teams named rosters of 31 players each which gives 620 players total.  144 is less than 1/4 of 620, so the great majority of players in RU national teams are homegrown.

Re the Six Nations, only Scotland had a number of foreign-born players which was even close to more than half of 31, but they used a lot more than just 31 players in that tournament as you can see in Wikipedia's list of the Scottish players in the tournament.  Their main roster was 35 players but they called up 18 others during the tournament so altogether they used 53 players.  As they used 18 heritage players, simple math shows that homegrown players outnumbered their heritage contingent 30-18 (the other five all qualified by residency).  QED

[Big Picture]

9 minutes ago, theswanmcr said:

The heritage issue, as demonstrated by a number of posters in terms of other sports, is the least of our issues.

To be taken seriously as an international sport we need to at the very least:

1) Play internationals. Not just a few at the end of season but a proper 3/4 games in the middle too. No reason why we can’t do this, play less club games and offer an attractive Northern Hemisphere international tournament to broadcasters.

England should be playing 6 or 7 games minimum a year (as should every nation) like most major sports. It really isn’t a lot to ask.

2) Play internationals in each nation. Scotland should play in Scotland (not Featherstone or anywhere else if at ‘home’).

The heritage issue is serious though.  Can we seriously expect the Global Association of International Sports Federations to consider an application by a Federation which allows countries to field teams full of heritage players legitimate?

[Tommygilf]

2 hours ago, Big Picture said:

The heritage issue is serious though.  Can we seriously expect the Global Association of International Sports Federations to consider an application by a Federation which allows countries to field teams full of heritage players legitimate?

Yes. Next?

[Sir Kevin Sinfield]

12 hours ago, Big Picture said:

The heritage issue is serious though.  Can we seriously expect the Global Association of International Sports Federations to consider an application by a Federation which allows countries to field teams full of heritage players legitimate?

First you said other sports only ever use a few heritage players, that was proved false with Scotland RU having over 20 heritage players in their squad.

Now it’s that some RL countries have solely heritage players. If Rugby League wasn’t played In countries like Jamaica and Scotland it could be claimed to be an issue, but they both have domestic competitions, and I expect players who’ve come from those competitions to be within the squad. But whether they are or not isn’t relevant.

International sides pick the strongest squad available to them regardless of whether the players qualify through birthplace or through heritage and regardless of whether they play in the domestic competition or overseas, that’s the way it is, the way it should be and people need to get over it.

[GUBRATS]

We can all pontificate endlessly about what the International calendar should be , but this thread is about the internationals being planned at short notice at the end of this season 

To me it needs a balance , yes I'd like to see England play France , if it's in France I might consider going , covid rules depending , hopefully we'll see all the home nations and a Jamaica team play at least one , preferably two games 

[Damien]

8 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

We can all pontificate endlessly about what the International calendar should be , but this thread is about the internationals being planned at short notice at the end of this season 

To me it needs a balance , yes I'd like to see England play France , if it's in France I might consider going , covid rules depending , hopefully we'll see all the home nations and a Jamaica team play at least one , preferably two games 

These internationals will take place 3 months from the World Cup being cancelled. That isn't what I'd call short notice. It is ample time for a competition between basically all Super League/Championship players.

[Route66]

As well as autumn internationals how about a county game for Cumbria to support development in a stronghold, would like to see a pack with Amor,Moore,Singleton,Donaldson, Maher and Knowles run out on home turf

[Big Picture]

5 hours ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

First you said other sports only ever use a few heritage players, that was proved false with Scotland RU having over 20 heritage players in their squad.

Now it’s that some RL countries have solely heritage players. If Rugby League wasn’t played In countries like Jamaica and Scotland it could be claimed to be an issue, but they both have domestic competitions, and I expect players who’ve come from those competitions to be within the squad. But whether they are or not isn’t relevant.

International sides pick the strongest squad available to them regardless of whether the players qualify through birthplace or through heritage and regardless of whether they play in the domestic competition or overseas, that’s the way it is, the way it should be and people need to get over it.

Other sports do use just a few heritage players, the Scotland RU team is the only exception to that.  They don't have "over 20 heritage players", 5 of their 23 foreign-born players qualified by residence which leaves 18 out of the 53 players they used in the Six Nations which is only 1/3.

RL is unique in having the embarrassing situation of several national teams being more or less full of heritage players because otherwise those countries couldn't field a team which is anywhere near competitive.

[SamDrew]

I know a lot has been on the IRL's plate, but I would seriously expect a lot more of them, taking the initiative as a big finger to the Southern Hemisphere, rather than limply leaving it to individual associations to organise ad hoc fixtures between themselves.

 

https://lastwordonsports.com/rugby/2021/08/19/international-rugby-league-is-a-must/

[Sir Kevin Sinfield]

1 hour ago, Big Picture said:

Other sports do use just a few heritage players, the Scotland RU team is the only exception to that.  They don't have "over 20 heritage players", 5 of their 23 foreign-born players qualified by residence which leaves 18 out of the 53 players they used in the Six Nations which is only 1/3.

RL is unique in having the embarrassing situation of several national teams being more or less full of heritage players because otherwise those countries couldn't field a team which is anywhere near competitive.

If you are embarrassed by International Rugby League I’d suggest you don’t comment on it and don’t bother watching. Personally I think it’s great and a sleeping giant.

Some teams use mainly heritage players, to the general public and most RL fans that doesn’t matter, here’s the proof.

France, PNG and Wales all have plenty of domestic players, will their attendances at the World Cup to be significantly better than Tonga, Fiji or Ireland? Those teams have mainly heritage players, it’s just not an issue like some people such as yourself love to claim. 

[zylya]

Be good to see double-header games for the women's team alongside the men, at least for any England games.

Hopefully this is the start of something rather than a last minute -around. As a comparison, the England football and rugby union teams play around 10-12 games per year - more for football if it's a major tournament. I'm not saying we have to get to that straightaway - but it's hard to build any real support for a national team when they only really play fixtures once every four years.

[JM2010]

3 hours ago, Route66 said:

As well as autumn internationals how about a county game for Cumbria to support development in a stronghold, would like to see a pack with Amor,Moore,Singleton,Donaldson, Maher and Knowles run out on home turf

I'm going agree with you here and even bring up the origin debate. Yorkshire vs Lancashire and Cumbria vs London/South would be competitive games

[17 stone giant]

4 hours ago, SamDrew said:

I know a lot has been on the IRL's plate, but I would seriously expect a lot more of them, taking the initiative as a big finger to the Southern Hemisphere

Maybe we do need Australia and New Zealand after all.

[Tommygilf]

17 hours ago, Big Picture said:

Other sports do use just a few heritage players, the Scotland RU team is the only exception to that.  They don't have "over 20 heritage players", 5 of their 23 foreign-born players qualified by residence which leaves 18 out of the 53 players they used in the Six Nations which is only 1/3.

RL is unique in having the embarrassing situation of several national teams being more or less full of heritage players because otherwise those countries couldn't field a team which is anywhere near competitive.

RL is unique in having a relatively small professional player pool and still being able to put out a decent amount of relatively competitive international sides made up of professionals.

The CFL world cup? The NFL world cup? The AFL world cup? The GAA world cup? These would be the embarrassing situations - which is why they don't have them.

[Griff]

On 24/08/2021 at 08:02, Tommygilf said:

RL is unique in having a relatively small professional player pool and still being able to put out a decent amount of relatively competitive international sides made up of professionals.

The CFL world cup? The NFL world cup? The AFL world cup? The GAA world cup? These would be the embarrassing situations - which is why they don't have them.

Aussie Rules does have a world cup, actually.  Albeit they call it the Australian Rules International Cup.

[Cheshire Setter]

On 23/08/2021 at 15:06, SamDrew said:

taking the initiative as a big finger to the Southern Hemisphere

Where's John Hopoate when you need him? I think I once saw him take a big finger to someone's southern hemisphere.

[gingerjon]

13 hours ago, Griff said:

Aussie Rules does have a world cup, actually.  Albeit they call it the Australian Rules International Cup.

And Australia don't play in it.

Which rather gives the game away.

[roughyed8]

13 hours ago, Griff said:

Aussie Rules does have a world cup, actually.  Albeit they call it the Australian Rules International Cup.

And Australia dont play in it! , its basically a bunch of park players from various countries having a holiday in Melbourne and playing a few games on surburban park fields.

[Tommygilf]

14 hours ago, Griff said:

Aussie Rules does have a world cup, actually.  Albeit they call it the Australian Rules International Cup.

Without the Aussies. Like having a CFL world cup without Canada, or GAA world cup without Ireland...