Wigan...an analysis

[Davo5]

7 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

Yep and it gets an average of 11,000 . So less than 50 % capacity and Wigan don´t even fill the hard cam. If it´s got 4000 in and Moor Lane is bouncing with a great atmosphere it actually means sky can show salford game. Plus, a smaller stadium makes it easier to attract people because you can create an atmosphere. Call it a paradox but Hull KR with only 6000 looked better than Wigan last night. 

So your answer to dwindling crowds is for teams to play in smaller stadiums?Why would Sky be more willing to show Salford playing in a bus shelter,it hardly looks like a major sport no matter how many are in attendance.

[Dave T]

6 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

True but Wigan don’t get 25k. They are likely to average below 10k this year (unrestricted crowds) and have lost around 5000 fans in the last ten years.

Maybe the fact it’s less than half-empty is itself a contributing factor in the declining crowds, a kind of vicious cycle?

As I say, I think Wigan have work to do (as have others but this is a Wigan thread) - it was only recently they were getting high-teens or even 20k for games against Wire and Leeds etc. 

But it is possible to get a good atmosphere even with 10 to 12k in there, again it is up to Wigan to get that across to fans in the ground and at home. 

Look at the Wire game on Sky (was it v Leeds) - pretty much only half full, but those 8k in were enjoying themselves and the cameras picked that up. 

A little like at Wembley, we need to be careful not to go over criticising what are ultimately decent crowds. 

There is something in how it looks and sounds, but let's not overstate it. We have a real tendency to overstate any challenge imho. The outcome of this is an insecurity that leads to structure change after structure change, looking for the silver bullet. 

We need Cooler heads. 

[M j M]

36 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I think Wigan have some work to do on revitalising their crowds, but I've been in there with 14k and the atmosphere has been electric, even with 10k empty seats. With 25k in I don't think there are many better grounds. 

Absolutely, the DW really isn't soulless. It is four or five thousand too large for Wigan but the design really keeps the noise in and it can be an excellent atmosphere at times, at least that's my experience.

It is really starting to show its age mind you; it had been a couple of years since I'd been there before last night and, presumably in part due to the soccer club's problems was distinctly shabby looking in places.

[graveyard johnny]

11 minutes ago, M j M said:

Absolutely, the DW really isn't soulless. It is four or five thousand too large for Wigan but the design really keeps the noise in and it can be an excellent atmosphere at times, at least that's my experience.

It is really starting to show its age mind you; it had been a couple of years since I'd been there before last night and, presumably in part due to the soccer club's problems was distinctly shabby looking in places.

concrete terracing and iron lean on bars last a lot longer than plastic seats whatever colour they may have been made 

[M j M]

Just now, graveyard johnny said:

concrete terracing and iron lean on bars last a lot longer than plastic seats whatever colour they may have been made 

And clogs last longer than shoes but we don't all still wear them.

[graveyard johnny]

1 minute ago, M j M said:

And clogs last longer than shoes but we don't all still wear them.

al give u that one -lol

[Padge]

1 minute ago, graveyard johnny said:

concrete terracing and iron lean on bars last a lot longer than plastic seats whatever colour they may have been made 

The state of the iron lean on bars at Central Park was the major reason for the dramatic cut in capacity at CP. 

They look robust with a nice coat of paint covering the rust but underneath they are as weak as hell.

[DavidM]

8 minutes ago, M j M said:

And clogs last longer than shoes but we don't all still wear them.

They don’t ?

[fieldofclothofgold]

1 hour ago, Padge said:

You don't look to shrink the stadium you look to fill it.

We have a stupid obsession with this anyway, look at the size of the stadiums some Aussie clubs play in and how empty they are, cricket grounds here are very often empty for 'big' matches.

Yes I've thought that looking at some of those NRL games 

[shrek]

Had the pleasure of being at both Tuesday and Wednesday night games at the DW this week, only 300 difference on the declared crowds, although felt more.

Atmosphere couldn't have been more different, the atmosphere was great Tuesday, despite the rather dire 0-0 90 minutes that unfolded, Wednesday night it was awful.

[redjonn]

7 hours ago, snoopdog said:

There's a constant question of "how do we make the game more attractive for Sky TV? In my opinion they are the cause of the sports demise, no existing advertising of games , shifting games to a Wednesday and Thursday night , dreadful presentation , awful commentary , you would think they are deliberately trying to devalue our great game!!

maybe but surely SL and the RFL should be talking to them about the Sky product/ presentation.

I don't think the NFL would put up with something poor... unless of course SL thinks its ok.

[Man of Kent]

19 minutes ago, Dave T said:

There is something in how it looks and sounds, but let's not overstate it. We have a real tendency to overstate any challenge imho. The outcome of this is an insecurity that leads to structure change after structure change, looking for the silver bullet. 

We need Cooler heads. 

I might have agreed with you a few months ago but there is a definite stench in the air with RL at the moment. Wigan - with all their proud history yet struggling on and off the field - kind of embody it.

Crowds are down, ratings are down (and TV money), quality/entertainment is down. We need to recognise the game is in the doldrums at present albeit with some important mitigating factors beyond its control. 

Hopefully the sport takes the opportunity to work together to improve matters.

[Dave T]

32 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

I might have agreed with you a few months ago but there is a definite stench in the air with RL at the moment. Wigan - with all their proud history yet struggling on and off the field - kind of embody it.

Crowds are down, ratings are down (and TV money), quality/entertainment is down. We need to recognise the game is in the doldrums at present albeit with some important mitigating factors beyond its control. 

Hopefully the sport takes the opportunity to work together to improve matters.

I think people are rather too quick to follow this line that the sport is rubbish at the moment. I'm enjoying most games I watch tbh. 

I do think sometimes maybe people who are not enjoying it need to step away for a bit. I've done it before, it helps. 

When you say ratings are down, what is your reference point? 

[JohnM]

35 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

I might have agreed with you a few months ago but there is a definite stench in the air with RL at the moment. Wigan - with all their proud history yet struggling on and off the field - kind of embody it.

Crowds are down, ratings are down (and TV money), quality/entertainment is down. We need to recognise the game is in the doldrums at present albeit with some important mitigating factors beyond its control. 

Hopefully the sport takes the opportunity to work together to improve matters.

Crowds are down because people put their health above going to games.

What money is down?

SOME quality and entertainment is down.

[yipyee]

On 23/08/2021 at 14:49, CiderWire said:

And yet...................United, under Ferguson were going nowhere fast until a particularly talented group of youngsters came up via their youth development program around, oooooh 1992 if I recall correctly. The rest, as they say.........................................

Which provides a degree of irony bearing in mind the subject of debate being one of imported goods over home grown, slowly matured, carefully nurtured, stars in the making!

It's nice to look back with fond memories and think how lucky we were at times to see these lads (and lasses) when they took their first nervous steps onto the pitch.

You do realise Utd won a fair few trophys including a european trophy and the premier league before the class of 92 were on the scene?

[yipyee]

1 hour ago, shrek said:

Had the pleasure of being at both Tuesday and Wednesday night games at the DW this week, only 300 difference on the declared crowds, although felt more.

Atmosphere couldn't have been more different, the atmosphere was great Tuesday, despite the rather dire 0-0 90 minutes that unfolded, Wednesday night it was awful.

Tuesday was against their bitter rivals at there is an air of optomism surrounding the team following last seasons mess and run in escape from relegation.

Wednesday was a set of fans who are in crisis with their team, the manager looks cluless to sort things out and theres clearly an issue with maybe? Agents pushing the young talent to other clubs.

[Man of Kent]

45 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I think people are rather too quick to follow this line that the sport is rubbish at the moment. I'm enjoying most games I watch tbh. 

I do think sometimes maybe people who are not enjoying it need to step away for a bit. I've done it before, it helps. 

When you say ratings are down, what is your reference point? 

Chatter on podcasts. Haven’t seen any figures (we only tend to see them when they have something to shout about).

Thanks for the advice but I’m not walking away!

By the way, I like your anti doom-mongering but it’s beginning to come across as a little bit complacent. The sport is clearly struggling in all aspects and everyone knows it - from top to bottom - we don’t have to pretend otherwise. 

[nadera78]

Whatever the state of Wigan, I'm not sure anyone should be listening to a poster whose main involvement in rugby league is cheerleading for a dying London Broncos to pump money into his favoured soccer club.

[Dave T]

7 hours ago, Man of Kent said:

Chatter on podcasts. Haven’t seen any figures (we only tend to see them when they have something to shout about).

Thanks for the advice but I’m not walking away!

By the way, I like your anti doom-mongering but it’s beginning to come across as a little bit complacent. The sport is clearly struggling in all aspects and everyone knows it - from top to bottom - we don’t have to pretend otherwise. 

You'll know from my posts that there is plenty I am critical of, but I just think there needs to be an element of pragmatism. 

I do believe there is a risk of talking ourselves into a crisis, and your last line is a good example. It is over the top. 

The steadfast refusal to enjoy anything about the game is draining.

It's possible to worry about lower crowds without thinking the game is dying. 

It's possible to be annoyed with a ban without everything being a farce. 

My point about people taking a break from the game is a serious one, some people appear to be martyrs, if the product is as bad as they tell us (and anyone who will listen, every single day), then why not spend time doing something they enjoy? As per the Tim Butcher article, some people are more harmful than the enemies of the game. 

[Chrispmartha]

12 minutes ago, Dave T said:

You'll know from my posts that there is plenty I am critical of, but I just think there needs to be an element of pragmatism. 

I do believe there is a risk of talking ourselves into a crisis, and your last line is a good example. It is over the top. 

The steadfast refusal to enjoy anything about the game is draining.

It's possible to worry about lower crowds without thinking the game is dying. 

It's possible to be annoyed with a ban without everything being a farce. 

My point about people taking a break from the game is a serious one, some people appear to be martyrs, if the product is as bad as they tell us (and anyone who will listen, every single day), then why not spend time doing something they enjoy? As per the Tim Butcher article, some people are more harmful than the enemies of the game. 

Spot on

[shrek]

8 hours ago, yipyee said:

Tuesday was against their bitter rivals at there is an air of optomism surrounding the team following last seasons mess and run in escape from relegation.

Wednesday was a set of fans who are in crisis with their team, the manager looks cluless to sort things out and theres clearly an issue with maybe? Agents pushing the young talent to other clubs.

Tuesday was also two reserve teams in a cup neither have a cat in hells chance of winning and will sooner or later be knocked out by someone elses reserves.

Wednesday was between two giants of the game towards the business end of the season with both still in the hunt for the play-offs.  Also striking that it was being "marketed" as a heritage round, I work in and around Wigan all day every day, had no idea until I get in the ground.

Lams getting the blame and Covids providing plenty of excuses, but Wigan have got major issues off the field well beyond both.

[JohnM]

9 hours ago, ShropshireBull said:

Did I not say that a smaller stadium would actually increase crowds? I think I did.  5k is probably a touch too small for Salford 6k would be ideal but yes sky will show high capacity games over low capacity games. 

Thought experiement, would it be easier for Giants to attract crowds in a snug 10k stadium than their current box?

 

Thought experiement, would it be easier for Giants to attract crowds in a snug 10k stadium than their current box?

Result of experiment.  No, it wouldn't 

[CiderWire]

8 hours ago, yipyee said:

You do realise Utd won a fair few trophys including a european trophy and the premier league before the class of 92 were on the scene?

Yes, being a season ticket holder n'all.  

[Chrispmartha]

18 minutes ago, shrek said:

Tuesday was also two reserve teams in a cup neither have a cat in hells chance of winning and will sooner or later be knocked out by someone elses reserves.

Wednesday was between two giants of the game towards the business end of the season with both still in the hunt for the play-offs.  Also striking that it was being "marketed" as a heritage round, I work in and around Wigan all day every day, had no idea until I get in the ground.

Lams getting the blame and Covids providing plenty of excuses, but Wigan have got major issues off the field well beyond both.

I mentioned before about the total lack of marketing around the ‘retro’ round, a total missed opportunity by Wigan.

How many great times in the 90s did they have to draw on,  absolutely loads, but we didn’t get any clips on the big screen, no past players on the pitch before the game or at half time, I think Wigan do have a bit of an identity and marketing issue, the rebrand was terrible timing (and badly implemented).

The Wigan RL brand is/was huge but they don’t seem to know what to do with it or how to promote it

[Tommygilf]

9 hours ago, JohnM said:

Crowds are down because people put their health above going to games.

What money is down?

SOME quality and entertainment is down.

That is either patently untrue or a factor unique to RL.