NCL match abandoned after referee assault

[Alffi 7]

On 28/08/2021 at 09:58, The Blues Ox said:

Without wanting to make light of the situation this comment maybe deserves to go in the how to improve the game thread.

+1 to this.

For me it starts with the parents and I will admit that in my past years I have hurled abuse at referees when in the crowd at games. I do remember playing the game though that we were always told to address the refferee correctly otherwise we would be off. A big eye opener for me was when I started coaching at junior level and we are drilling in to kids that the way to address the ref is "yes sir" "no sir" and it meant I had to set that example myself. Ive seen some awful abuse to match officials in junior rugby from players, coaches, and parents. Ive seen lads and lasses under 16 reffing games and getting a barrage of abuse from the sideline and you just think what if the boot was on the other foot and a grown adult was screaming at your son or daughter every time they dropped a ball or missed a tackle.

Seeing things like that was a huge wake up call for myself and I will purposfully go out of the way to chat to the ref and although I might not always agree with their decisions I will respect that they have to make them in a split second and I do not envy them one little bit and I will try and make their experience with our team an enjoyable one. Ive even gone as far to explaining to our players that been nicer to the ref its only human nature that things like that are remembered and you never know you might find yourselves been on the right side of any 50/50 decisions more often than not.

 

 

Couldn't agree more.  We had a young girl (under 16 not sure exactly what age) reffing my lads U10's game last week. Parents shouting on from the sidelines disputing decisions and even an opposition coach trying to influence decisions from his touchline shouting. Ridiculous. (Opposition parents cheering when a ten year old drops the ball is another pet hate).

 

I too had the same revelation of changing my aspect on refereeing performances some years ago, made the game a far more enjoyable one. My parents in law always have a good moan at the referee during / after a game and I've noticed my son start to make comments of his own.  I've started talking to him about how difficult a job it is and how there would be no game without them, most of the time the complaints are wrong / unjustified anyway and I show him that when we watch the game back. We lead by our examples.

 

It creates a vicious cycle of poorer quality referees when more and more people will stop doing it or never start in the first place.  Changes are needed in so many aspects of the game, but Superleague coaches and players need to set that example.  Of course there needs to be reviews of refereeing performances, and sometimes those performances will be poor - but that should be a behind closed door exercise. The likes of Daryl Powell & Adrian Lam highlighting certain decisions they believe to be incorrect (to pick on a couple I've noticed recently) isn't a good look and breeds a lack of respect to officials. Sky asking coaches what they thought about decisions to create a bit of controversy doesn't help either.

[The Blues Ox]

16 minutes ago, Alffi 7 said:

Couldn't agree more.  We had a young girl (under 16 not sure exactly what age) reffing my lads U10's game last week. Parents shouting on from the sidelines disputing decisions and even an opposition coach trying to influence decisions from his touchline shouting. Ridiculous. (Opposition parents cheering when a ten year old drops the ball is another pet hate).

 

I too had the same revelation of changing my aspect on refereeing performances some years ago, made the game a far more enjoyable one. My parents in law always have a good moan at the referee during / after a game and I've noticed my son start to make comments of his own.  I've started talking to him about how difficult a job it is and how there would be no game without them, most of the time the complaints are wrong / unjustified anyway and I show him that when we watch the game back. We lead by our examples.

 

It creates a vicious cycle of poorer quality referees when more and more people will stop doing it or never start in the first place.  Changes are needed in so many aspects of the game, but Superleague coaches and players need to set that example.  Of course there needs to be reviews of refereeing performances, and sometimes those performances will be poor - but that should be a behind closed door exercise. The likes of Daryl Powell & Adrian Lam highlighting certain decisions they believe to be incorrect (to pick on a couple I've noticed recently) isn't a good look and breeds a lack of respect to officials. Sky asking coaches what they thought about decisions to create a bit of controversy doesn't help either.

Agree with all of that. Again on the last bit you won't have a coach come out and publicly go after one of his own players for making mistakes, and the bets are they make more than the ref during a game, yet it is ok for them to comment about the ref.

I had a chuckle reading your pet hate and there is nothing worse, I mean how good can you feel about yourself cheering that a 14 year old has made a mistake? Another thing I try and do in that situation is a quiet word with the player who potentially caused the error just saying well done and explaining something like it been their presence that caused the error, failing that theres nothing wrong with a chin up to the player who made the mistake or failing that saying nothing at all is better than a cheer. The game has to be made as enjoyable as possible at early levels for officials and players even in defeat. 

[RigbyLuger]

38 minutes ago, Alffi 7 said:

Sky asking coaches what they thought about decisions to create a bit of controversy doesn't help either.

Jenna rarely asks a coach what he made of a player doing something stupid or a massive error. Always easier to blame a ref anyway.

[Impartial Observer]

4 hours ago, David Dockhouse Host said:

We desperately need more refs but nobody wants to do the job. It's not just abuse but the constant critique, there seems to be more focus on what the ref does than the players. Personally I just don't get it and the impact is refs leaving the role and fewer wishing to join.

Maybe more could be done, my hope is we give them more time to develop like we do players, expect mistakes as they learn, but the accountability is greater for refs than players, you can see this it a community club most weekends 

I think the highlighting of perceived mistakes by refs on Sky doesn't help, of course they make mistakes same as players but it doesn't need mentioning for the next 10 minutes. This doesn't happen with union games, yes mistakes are pointed out but not discussed for the rest of the game 

[Marauder]

6 hours ago, David Dockhouse Host said:

We desperately need more refs but nobody wants to do the job. It's not just abuse but the constant critique, there seems to be more focus on what the ref does than the players. Personally I just don't get it and the impact is refs leaving the role and fewer wishing to join.

Maybe more could be done, my hope is we give them more time to develop like we do players, expect mistakes as they learn, but the accountability is greater for refs than players, you can see this it a community club most weekends 

I reckon if we do away with all the pantomime gimmicks associated with sky sports video referees then the obsession of pulling every refereeing decision to pieces may subside slightly.

[tim2]

I gave up 5 years ago for a variety of reasons, one of which was abuse.

I never once felt like I was going to get hit, even these incidents have happened periodically and there were one or two during the period I was reffing. Over the 9 years I reckon I had a handful of objectively poor games (from my own perspective) and I know exactly what happened each time and I think (and hope) I learned from them. There were mistakes in other games, but given the number of decisions and the fact that it's one pair of eyes looking at 26 players and assessing multiple possible outcomes from every PTB/scrum/tackle that's got to be expected.

The game day support was pretty poor in some areas, especially at the lower levels where you are trying to learn. Society meetings were very useful and worth attending.  

[Lowdesert]

6 minutes ago, tim2 said:

I gave up 5 years ago for a variety of reasons, one of which was abuse.

I never once felt like I was going to get hit, even these incidents have happened periodically and there were one or two during the period I was reffing. Over the 9 years I reckon I had a handful of objectively poor games (from my own perspective) and I know exactly what happened each time and I think (and hope) I learned from them. There were mistakes in other games, but given the number of decisions and the fact that it's one pair of eyes looking at 26 players and assessing multiple possible outcomes from every PTB/scrum/tackle that's got to be expected.

The game day support was pretty poor in some areas, especially at the lower levels where you are trying to learn. Society meetings were very useful and worth attending.  

Can’t kick yourself for making mistakes Reffing.  Everyone on the pitch makes mistakes, including the coaches on the sidelines.

 

[Bondi Cannon]

I refereed for 20 seasons in the UK and NZ to a high level. In my final season I realised I was only enjoying about one game in three and the reason was the accompanying ######. The players were fine - there’s only ten teams in the top division in Auckland so you knew all of them and could talk to them. In my case, it was specifically the whinging from losing coaches that was winding me up and then the occasional spectator. I was finding it harder and harder not to respond. Now I play over 40s soccer with my mates and it’s entirely stress free. Except ironically that we never get a ref and so the only dramas are with the decisions of player-refs (we had a game finish early this year when the opposition captain was sent off and literally took his ball - the only one - home with him). 

[gingerjon]

10 hours ago, Bondi Cannon said:

we had a game finish early this year when the opposition captain was sent off and literally took his ball - the only one - home with him

This is poetry

[Bondi Cannon]

1 hour ago, gingerjon said:

This is poetry

Everyone else was incensed, I thought it was hilarious. Almost all rest of his team wanted to play on but he’d gone, and the right back had walked off with the corner flags. And clearly we’d completely forgotten to bring a ball with us. 

[JohnM]

22 hours ago, Alffi 7 said:

Couldn't agree more.  We had a young girl (under 16 not sure exactly what age) reffing my lads U10's game last week. Parents shouting on from the sidelines disputing decisions and even an opposition coach trying to influence decisions from his touchline shouting. Ridiculous. (Opposition parents cheering when a ten year old drops the ball is another pet hate).

 

I too had the same revelation of changing my aspect on refereeing performances some years ago, made the game a far more enjoyable one. My parents in law always have a good moan at the referee during / after a game and I've noticed my son start to make comments of his own.  I've started talking to him about how difficult a job it is and how there would be no game without them, most of the time the complaints are wrong / unjustified anyway and I show him that when we watch the game back. We lead by our examples.

 

It creates a vicious cycle of poorer quality referees when more and more people will stop doing it or never start in the first place.  Changes are needed in so many aspects of the game, but Superleague coaches and players need to set that example.  Of course there needs to be reviews of refereeing performances, and sometimes those performances will be poor - but that should be a behind closed door exercise. The likes of Daryl Powell & Adrian Lam highlighting certain decisions they believe to be incorrect (to pick on a couple I've noticed recently) isn't a good look and breeds a lack of respect to officials. Sky asking coaches what they thought about decisions to create a bit of controversy doesn't help either.

I understand all that and that sort of behaviour, lack of self-discipline and control is unacceptable.  Is that enough though to condition a player to strike a ref? It's just thuggery and need to be subject to the full force (or is it farce) of the law. No excuse. Prosecution. Voltaire got it right when referring to Byng's execution in Candide: "In this country, it is thought wise to kill an admiral from time to time to encourage the others."

[dkw]

Milford player Josh Nathaniel has been banned Sine Die apparently, and good enough for the moron.

[Shaunr2693]

I’ve roomed with the bloke who’s just been sine die and I’m as shocked as anyone when I heard who it was… for the people saying he deserves a prison sentence is bull in that case every punch every sly shot deserves a prison sentence! And being sine die means absolute Jack I played in a game where a player smacked a referee had a full investigation…. You name it that had it…. 6years later after pleading to the RFL that player played again! Do I agree with what Josh did? No I don’t but I can guarantee he’ll play again in 5years time if he pleads to the rfl! 

[RigbyLuger]

Sine die should mean exactly that. No "heat of the moment" or any other excuses.

[Mr Plow]

On 02/09/2021 at 20:45, Bondi Cannon said:

I refereed for 20 seasons in the UK and NZ to a high level. In my final season I realised I was only enjoying about one game in three and the reason was the accompanying ######. The players were fine - there’s only ten teams in the top division in Auckland so you knew all of them and could talk to them. In my case, it was specifically the whinging from losing coaches that was winding me up and then the occasional spectator. I was finding it harder and harder not to respond. Now I play over 40s soccer with my mates and it’s entirely stress free. Except ironically that we never get a ref and so the only dramas are with the decisions of player-refs (we had a game finish early this year when the opposition captain was sent off and literally took his ball - the only one - home with him). 

I’ve reffed for almost 3 years now. Similar to you I find most players to be fine, 95% of abuse is from coaches the rest from spectators. I’m based in Leeds and find teams from Castleford tend to give you the worst abuse. I think everyone who refs could write a book about their experiences. I recently did an u11 game where a parent was shouting for his kid to knock the other team out

[moorside roughyed]

I stand by my post on page 2. Common sense has prevailed, we simply can't afford for this to happen. This ref may never ref a game again. The game needs to retain as many refs as possible as there aren't enough of them around as it is. The fact that both sets of players went to the referees assistance speaks volumes. We're a fairly small sport so attracting people to the game has to be a priority, people potentially leaving the game isn't good. 

[moorside roughyed]

18 minutes ago, Mr Plow said:

I’ve reffed for almost 3 years now. Similar to you I find most players to be fine, 95% of abuse is from coaches the rest from spectators. I’m based in Leeds and find teams from Castleford tend to give you the worst abuse. I think everyone who refs could write a book about their experiences. I recently did an u11 game where a parent was shouting for his kid to knock the other team out

Parents are normally the worst. For parents to yell out for kids from their team to knock out the kids from the opposite side is disgusting. I must be a Saint, whenever I watch kids or amateur I even applaud the opposition if they've made a good play. 

[Mr Plow]

6 minutes ago, moorside roughyed said:

Parents are normally the worst. For parents to yell out for kids from their team to knock out the kids from the opposite side is disgusting. I must be a Saint, whenever I watch kids or amateur I even applaud the opposition if they've made a good play. 

Makes you worry what the parent is like at home. I can kind of understand people getting worked up at open age but to act like some people do at junior games, I just don’t understand it.

[moorside roughyed]

37 minutes ago, Mr Plow said:

Makes you worry what the parent is like at home. I can kind of understand people getting worked up at open age but to act like some people do at junior games, I just don’t understand it.

Indeed it does mate. It's the home environment that makes you wonder sometimes. I was brought that in sport things sometimes go against you as in life. You just have to try and learn from experiences good or bad. I've never yelled or anything like that at a kids game, ever. They need encouragement and above all to enjoy what they do whatever that may be. But yes some parents are beyond me. 

[dkw]

12 hours ago, Shaunr2693 said:

for the people saying he deserves a prison sentence is bull in that case every punch every sly shot deserves a prison sentence! 

If you sucker punch a ref then yes, you fully deserve a prison sentence as its assault, if you can't see that then you have a problem.