London to go part-time from next year

[Man of Kent]

1 minute ago, nadera78 said:

You spent a year championing this relocation, dismissing and mocking people who know more than you about the Broncos, and now you don't like it when people call you out on it. Fair enough. As I say, we all know where you stand. Your only concern is, and always has been, AFC Wimbledon.

I'd be in favour of Plough Lane regardless. I had a Broncos ST in 2019 and found Ealing to be wholly inadequate for elite sport. I'm sure the missing thousands think similarly.

[nadera78]

2 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

I'd be in favour of Plough Lane regardless. I had a Broncos ST in 2019 and found Ealing to be wholly inadequate for elite sport. I'm sure the missing thousands think similarly.

The fact you think the club has lost support because it played at Ealing shows just how little you know about the history of the London Broncos. Stick to the soccer.

[Man of Kent]

2 minutes ago, nadera78 said:

The fact you think the club has lost support because it played at Ealing shows just how little you know about the history of the London Broncos. Stick to the soccer.

I certainly won't be back at Ealing.

Plough Lane, on the other hand, is a belter of a ground. A mini Halliwell Jones.

See you there, perhaps! 

[Damien]

5 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

I'd be in favour of Plough Lane regardless. I had a Broncos ST in 2019 and found Ealing to be wholly inadequate for elite sport. I'm sure the missing thousands think similarly.

Whilst I agree with you on Ealing not being worthy of a SL club and elite sport the trouble is that London now do not seem to be aiming for that elite competition.

I completely understand those die hard London fans who were against the Ealing move but as an outsider I was in favour as it it seemed like a good move which would facilitate a London SL team playing in a SL standard stadium. I thought it would allow London to build again to be something more like we saw in the 90s.

However by going part time they now seem content to be a part time Championship club which is at odds with all that and is something that Ealing is fine for and undoubtedly cheaper than Wimbledon.

[Ivarr the Boneless]

Experience tells Broncos fans that thousands of empty seats destroys the match day experience. Plough Lane would certainly be a better ground for a team with a 5k or up support base. Broncos are at about 200.

It's going to be difficult to grow that support base if Broncos have an academy based team getting thrashed every week.

The horrible truth is Broncos have gone from being a team that would have been a good fit at Dons to one that could use Wimbledon RUFC in terms of its existing support base.

I'm hoping there's a plan for next season but not feeling the need to directly contact long standing fans about the shift to part time suggests little has changed behind the scenes.

 

[EssexRL]

2 minutes ago, Ivarr the Boneless said:

Experience tells Broncos fans that thousands of empty seats destroys the match day experience. Plough Lane would certainly be a better ground for a team with a 5k or up support base. Broncos are at about 200.

It's going to be difficult to grow that support base if Broncos have an academy based team getting thrashed every week.

The horrible truth is Broncos have gone from being a team that would have been a good fit at Dons to one that could use Wimbledon RUFC in terms of its existing support base.

I'm hoping there's a plan for next season but not feeling the need to directly contact long standing fans about the shift to part time suggests little has changed behind the scenes.

 

I think, sadly, you are spot on.

[Man of Kent]

8 minutes ago, Damien said:

Whilst I agree with you on Ealing not being worthy of a SL club and elite sport the trouble is that London now do not seem to be aiming for that elite competition.

I completely understand those die hard London fans who were against the Ealing move but as an outsider I was in favour as it it seemed like a good move which would facilitate a London SL team playing in a SL standard stadium. I thought it would allow London to build again to be something more like we saw in the 90s.

However by going part time they now seem content to be a part time Championship club which is at odds with all that and is something that Ealing is fine for and undoubtedly cheaper than Wimbledon.

There's known unknowns in play, i.e. the restructure. Without wanting to repeat myself, if there is an 'SL2'-style arrangement we don't know about - and Broncos are consolidating in the short term to put in place a long-term plan - Plough Lane still makes sense.

If it is simply the case that Broncos have waved the white flag, then a continuing slow death at Ealing may well be the outcome.  

[crashmon]

Ok lets look at this from various perspectives

1) PL is much much better than Ealing in terms of ground facilities, TV viewing etc. Nobody is doubting that.
2) However in case I missed something, what brings people to follow clubs is success on the Park, not the facilities they happen to play at.

3) Lets say Wimbledon get 10K fans at each home game.   Then they get promoted from L1 to Champ to Premier League, will they still be stuck at 10K fans, or would they have more likely get up to 15K? 20K?

4) at the same time if Wimbledon had multiple relegations, would they have 10K fans vs Staines town in conference south? More like 2-3K probably

So lets say the dons project that if they get into the Premier League they will get 25K fans.  They then realise PL is not big enough for 25K fans, so do a deal with Chelsea or Fulham, and plan for 25K fans as they feel they will be in Premier League in 2 years.

At the same time they get rid of all the key players in the squad, and plan to run a conference level squad, increase the prices three fold, and just assume that Chelsea \ Fulham fans will turn up to support them.

Result would be 3K Dons fans rocking round Stamford bridge vs Staines, while paying vast sums of money in rent so they can't improve the squad if they tried.

This is why the move makes no sense at all from a London Broncos fan.  Its not that PL is better, its that the Broncos are not ready to play in a stadium as expensive / large as PL.  They need a stadium at the level they are aiming for, and for Part time PL is too expensive and too large for us to play at.  We need a much cheaper stadium than 200K a year

[crashmon]

11 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

There's known unknowns in play, i.e. the restructure. Without wanting to repeat myself, if there is an 'SL2'-style arrangement we don't know about - and Broncos are consolidating in the short term to put in place a long-term plan - Plough Lane still makes sense.

If it is simply the case that Broncos have waved the white flag, then a continuing slow death at Ealing may well be the outcome.  

In this scenario, PL only makes sense if the RFL have told David Huhges that they will fund some of the 200K outlay for the privilege to play there,as you won't get fans coming to watch an acadamy squad getting tonked by 50 points by Whitehaven.

Which means no money to improve the squad so you will lose the fans, and have a death spirial.

[Man of Kent]

Just now, crashmon said:

In this scenario, PL only makes sense if the RFL have told David Huhges that they will fund some of the 200K outlay for the privilidge to play there,as you won't get fans coming to watch an acadamy squad getting tonked by 50 points by Whitehaven.

Which means no money to improve the squad so you will lose the fans, and have a death spirial.

Well, chief, nobody's watching at Ealing with a play-off side.

I can see fans getting behind the Broncos in reasonable numbers with a 'homegrown and hungry' squad if it's sold right. I realise that is a very large 'if' with the Broncs, but it could be done.

[crashmon]

1 minute ago, Man of Kent said:

Well, chief, nobody's watching at Ealing with a play-off side.

I can see fans getting behind the Broncos in reasonable numbers with a 'homegrown and hungry' squad if it's sold right. I realise that is a very large 'if' with the Broncs, but it could be done.

Thats the whole point. If nobody is watching why do you move to a stadium where you are paying 200K rent a year if you dont have the product or the fans for it?

It really does not matter how nice Plough Lane is.  It could be the mecca of football, and you could have people flying in from Brazil doing tours of the stadium, and the queen could be in attendance every saturday eating Cavier.  AT 200K a year it is far far to expensive for London to play there considering London are Part time with 300 fans.  This is the key point, and the only point that matters. 

We are paying far far far far far too much in rent to ever be in a position to make the club sucessful.

If you really wanted London to be a success, then you would not be expecting them considering where the club is to pay such a large propertion of income in rent. I dont see any noises coming out of wimbledon that they will reduce the rent in 2022 as London have lost the central funding.

Now I will be the first to hold my hand up if I see a Wimbledon statement reducing the rent now we have lost our central funding, but I don't hold my breath

 

[Man of Kent]

3 minutes ago, crashmon said:

Thats the whole point. If nobody is watching why do you move to a stadium where you are paying 200K rent a year if you dont have the product or the fans for it?

 

I saw similar arguments about AFC Wimbledon moving to Plough Lane. We don't need it, it's too expensive, we'll never fill it etc. Well, that was completely wrong. It's a solid gold hit.

Broncos could easily get their crowds up to reasonable levels at Plough Lane - from lapsed Broncos fans, from general RL/rugby fans, locals and AFC Wimbledon fans. I'm not suggesting it is an instant fix - it will need selling and a fair ticket price - but it can be done. 

[crashmon]

Just a question for you, and please don't take this the wrong way.  Would PL still be a good move for Wimbledon if you ended up relegated and potentially playing in the conference? Would PL still be sustainable for you at that level? or a White elephant

(this is just hypothecial, as I do hope the dons make it upwards towards Premier League)

[Man of Kent]

9 minutes ago, crashmon said:

Just a question for you, and please don't take this the wrong way.  Would PL still be a good move for Wimbledon if you ended up relegated and potentially playing in the conference? Would PL still be sustainable for you at that level? or a White elephant

(this is just hypothecial, as I do hope the dons make it upwards towards Premier League)

League 2 is no issue, really. Crowds would fall but not precariously. Conference would be more problematic but we got crowds of 4k in the Conference 10 years ago at Kingsmeadow so I'm sure they'd be a similarly healthy level should disaster strike. 

As an aside, the debt on Plough Lane is roughly one year's current turnover, so it's hard to see it ever being in white elephant territory from a financial POV. This is irrelevant to a Broncos discussion, though. 

[Barley Mow]

It is obviously a very long shot to win the playoffs from 6th (although by my calculations it is still mathematically possible for London to finish 3rd), but announcing this change now (when it is still possible for them to be a Super League club next season) can't send the right message to supporters, current players or potential play-off opposition.

[crashmon]

Making the statement now is hoping that other clubs will come in for our players while there are two games left, so the players can put themselves in the shop window, and the Broncos have more of a chance to off-load some of them to interested clubs.

I don't think the playoffs have any bearing at all. Its all about trimming the squad as much as possible before 2022

[Scubby]

So London going part-time is the end for them even though they will be in a League with Featherstone, Bradford, Halifax, Batley, York etc. who will also part time next year? 

[crashmon]

4 minutes ago, Scubby said:

So London going part-time is the end for them even though they will be in a League with Featherstone, Bradford, Halifax, Batley, York etc. who will also part time next year? 

Featherstone, Bradford, Halifax, Batley, York are not planning to play next season with an acadamy squad with 300 fans in a stadium which they are paying 200K just to rent.

Some of those clubs may also have the same problem with loss of central funding, but they are not going through the same upheaval that London are

[Scubby]

2 minutes ago, crashmon said:

Featherstone, Bradford, Halifax, Batley, York are not planning to play next season with an acadamy squad with 300 fans in a stadium which they are paying 200K just to rent.

Some of those clubs may also have the same problem with loss of central funding, but they are not going through the same upheaval that London are

London may well sign a handful of players who are on full-time ish wages to bring experience in but the cost cutting will be training and conditioning part time and probably moving over to 2/3 evenings a week. This is the first stage of their plans I would imagine not a fait accompli 

[Archie Gordon]

37 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

Broncos could easily get their crowds up to reasonable levels at Plough Lane - from lapsed Broncos fans, from general RL/rugby fans, locals and AFC Wimbledon fans. 

Brilliant! Why hasn't anyone thought of this before!

[Archie Gordon]

5 minutes ago, crashmon said:

Featherstone, Bradford, Halifax, Batley, York are not planning to play next season with an acadamy squad with 300 fans in a stadium which they are paying 200K just to rent.

Some of those clubs may also have the same problem with loss of central funding, but they are not going through the same upheaval that London are

Added to that, all those teams can nab players from each other without the player moving house or changing jobs. 

[Magic XIII]

9 minutes ago, Scubby said:

London may well sign a handful of players who are on full-time ish wages to bring experience in but the cost cutting will be training and conditioning part time and probably moving over to 2/3 evenings a week. This is the first stage of their plans I would imagine not a fait accompli 

You may be correct but until the club come out and explain what their intentions are then its not unreasonable for fans to think the worst .... and their track record isn't good. I believe there was a meeting with a few fans last week, where  pointed questions were hopefully being addressed, but nothing and I mean nothing has come out, so status quo remains.

[Magic XIII]

25 minutes ago, Scubby said:

So London going part-time is the end for them even though they will be in a League with Featherstone, Bradford, Halifax, Batley, York etc. who will also part time next year? 

Lets be honest, there is part time in the game's heartlands (with options of loans on your door step) and there is part time in Greater London, 200miles from game's heartlands. The two don't compare.

[Magic XIII]

1 hour ago, Man of Kent said:

I can see fans getting behind the Broncos in reasonable numbers with a 'homegrown and hungry' squad if it's sold right. I realise that is a very large 'if' with the Broncs, but it could be done.

I don't think you are correct. Rugby League is an unforgiving sport on the field and if you aren't good enough, it finds you out. It has found out all the academy lads this year. Remove all the experience and you are left with a squad of under developed, under skilled players. Homegrown - yes; hungry - probably; good enough to compete - no. I and many others wont travel hundreds of miles for home games to watch a team 'trying'. Let's hope the locals are far more forgiving.

[Damien]

6 minutes ago, Magic XIII said:

Lets be honest, there is part time in the game's heartlands (with options of loans on your door step) and there is part time in Greater London, 200miles from game's heartlands. The two don't compare.

Yeah it doesn't. Playing part time for some pocket money on top of a day job in the games heartlands is very worthwhile and even preferable to some compared to full time. There are hundreds of players on your doorstep who'll take that. Doing so in London certainly isn't worth it. For northerners it isn't worthwhile and for many in and around London RU would be an easier and more lucrative gig.