Derek Beaumont's Programme Notes

[gingerjon]

7 minutes ago, sweaty craiq said:

I very much doubt Tabby is Degsy, or at least the Degsy you mean, the real Degsy was in Switzerland with his mates watching United lose last night.

The posts did read like someone doing too many things with a party going on, mind.

[RigbyLuger]

12 hours ago, HullWire said:

Beumont is obviously very passionate and clearly thinks the players didn't support his fund raising effort, but to explode publicly in writing is just bizarre! What reaction, other than "let's get out of here" from the players does he expect? For the players, in the games I've seen, there's been no lack of effort, unfortunately, collectively and in some cases individualy, they just simply aren't as good as the opposition

Hence why his criticism of Jon Wilkin for claiming Saints were better than Leigh, or whatever it was, made no sense at all.

It's not a players fault if they aren't better than they are, if they're giving their best.

[Harry Stottle]

3 minutes ago, RigbyLuger said:

It's not a players fault if they aren't better than they are, if they're giving their best.

So very very true, but it is when that last sentance comes into question that comments are made.

[Dunbar]

7 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

So very very true, but it is when that last sentance comes into question that comments are made.

I think this goes to the heart of the conversation Harry.

Some will say that Beaumont's comments in the programme were warranted as he has every right to question the efforts of his players.

Others (and I am in this camp) say that the efforts of the players reflect the culture of the overall organization and how the players are valued and supported.

When Beaumont criticizes the players he is essentially criticizing his own leadership.

[Tommygilf]

27 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

I think this goes to the heart of the conversation Harry.

Some will say that Beaumont's comments in the programme were warranted as he has every right to question the efforts of his players.

Others (and I am in this camp) say that the efforts of the players reflect the culture of the overall organization and how the players are valued and supported.

When Beaumont criticizes the players he is essentially criticizing his own leadership.

And taking absolutely zero responsibility for that leadership/criticism.

[paulwalker71]

3 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

Hello, Hello,

Why are Fev my favourites? simply I believe they have the personnel to get the better of Toulouse and even moreso in a one off game where I expect Fev to be very mentally prepared and make it a very physical encounter - wherever it is played, Yes Toulouse have not been defeated and have won all 12 games they have played in all season plus one default by London, Fev have actually won 19 games and as you say one defeat to Toulouse but to describe that has an hammering is a bit OTT, did you watch the game? It was very much closer than the scoreboard suggested. Call it a gut feeling, I don't believe there is that much  between the two teams, but we shall see in the next few weeks.

FWIW I totally agree with HS on this. I expect Featherstone to win the GF as well

I don't believe that promotion to SL should be decided on a one-off game myself, but 'thems the rules' and while ever they are the rules then it doesn't matter two hoots whether Toulouse are unbeaten all season. It all comes down to the 80 minutes on the day. I expect Toulouse and Featherstone to demolish the other teams in the play offs but once it comes down to the one-off I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Toulouse choke.

To be clear, I hope Toulouse will be promoted, but I'm certainly not confident that they will be. I think Featherstone will 'do a Leigh' should they get promoted, but I guess we will see...

[Lowdesert]

2 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

No, have you any opinion on the post you have answered?

The rules were there, pre 2021 start although not all knew about or understood them I would imagine.

TO beat Fev and would imo have been beaten them again in Toulouse imo but the play off & GF are different.  Both teams might suffer injuries which could affect the outcome, should Fev and TO reach the final.

That DB didn’t like the RFL rules for promotion and is looking at possible legal action is petty.  I think it will have further distanced him from SLE bosses too.  Seems he just wants to strike out at everyone who doesn’t suit his agenda.

[dkw]

15 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

And taking absolutely zero responsibility for that leadership/criticism.

And that the crux of this whole embarrassing episode, those programme notes were all about him shirking the responsibility, old slopey shouldered good old Degsy could do nothing about it, its all the players/RFL/damn Frenchies fault.

[Harry Stottle]

58 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

I think this goes to the heart of the conversation Harry.

Some will say that Beaumont's comments in the programme were warranted as he has every right to question the efforts of his players.

Others (and I am in this camp) say that the efforts of the players reflect the culture of the overall organization and how the players are valued and supported.

When Beaumont criticizes the players he is essentially criticizing his own leadership.

To those who go along to Leigh games, agree or disagree with the comments he made, it definatley had some effect.

As for your last sentance, do you honestly really believe that, are you saying that in any buisness when some employees require chastising or even dismissal it is down to the leadership of the company? If so you must believe that everyone has the same work ethic, the same loyalty, the same skill set, the same attitude, nobody ever throws a sickie, or does not give their all to the company, welfare all different from each other Dunbar, it is not always the fault of the man at the top.

[Dunbar]

48 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

To those who go along to Leigh games, agree or disagree with the comments he made, it definatley had some effect.

Is that for the last win?  I don't think that is a very sustainable model for performance management - lambasting the player group in the programme every game and hoping for a reaction.

48 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

As for your last sentance, do you honestly really believe that, are you saying that in any buisness when some employees require chastising or even dismissal it is down to the leadership of the company? If so you must believe that everyone has the same work ethic, the same loyalty, the same skill set, the same attitude, nobody ever throws a sickie, or does not give their all to the company, welfare all different from each other Dunbar, it is not always the fault of the man at the top.

Again, as I have said previously on this thread, there is a significant difference between leadership and management.

Management (in any organization) should be responsible for identification and management of underperformance or poor attitude.  In this sense, this will be the coaching staff.

But leadership is all about setting tone and culture to ensure that those who perform thrive and ensure that teams recognize that individual contributions matter.  If a business has a high sickness rate then some of this will absolutely be down to the leadership as the culture of the business has either facilitated that or allowed it to happen. 

Leaders set standards and demand performance but they do this with the right people (management) at the right time in the right place (behind closed doors).  What they do in public is different - they enthuse and motivate and set a vision that people want to follow. 

At least the best leaders do.  The worst leaders blame and harangue and instill a toxic culture that I guarantee will permeate across the whole organization.

[The Phantom Horseman]

5 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

Fev have actually won 19 games and as you say one defeat to Toulouse but to describe that has an hammering is a bit OTT, did you watch the game? It was very much closer than the scoreboard suggested.

I've made this point on here previously, the Fev/Toulouse game wasn't televised and I don't think it's available on YouTube either, and I think a lot of people have seen the score and assumed it was a one-sided affair which definitely wasn't the case.

Toulouse deserved to win on the day, their goal-line defence was definitely better than Fev's, but Fev bombed two or three tries in the first half and turned the ball over 19 times (which of course could happen again if they reach the final, but it could happen to Toulouse who had a similar turnover tally at Oldham).

FWIW the yardage of the teams was about 1,330 Fev, 1,380 Toulouse off almost identical number of play-the-balls.

I do think Toulouse will be favourites if they and Fev are the two teams that make the final, no doubt it's going to be tough for Fev if we do reach the final, but I don't think the game at Fev is quite such a conclusive form guide as people who didn't see that game might think.

 

[Wakefield Ram]

On 12/09/2021 at 18:26, Harry Stottle said:

Well it is up to everyone who I have offended to tell me otherwise, it seems that saying Mr Beaumont got a desired reaction from his comments after all the 'stupid man's' comments from our resident experts has caused some consternation.

Shame the "genius motivator" didn't think to put this in the programme every home game, then they'd be a mid-table side.

[Tommygilf]

4 hours ago, dkw said:

And that the crux of this whole embarrassing episode, those programme notes were all about him shirking the responsibility, old slopey shouldered good old Degsy could do nothing about it, its all the players/RFL/damn Frenchies fault.

Indeed, and this isn't a minor issue. As a culture, especially at a sports club, accountability and responsibility is massive. Taking responsibility for the factors you control, the endeavour you are a part of, and the team is critical for a positive working environment.

DB is doing the equivalent of blaming the man next to him for not making a tackle. Its a blame culture that means nothing will ever get solved.

 

[JDINTHEHIZZOUSE]

7 hours ago, sweaty craiq said:

I very much doubt Tabby is Degsy, or at least the Degsy you mean, the real Degsy was in Switzerland with his mates watching United lose last night.

Man United might have won if degsy wrote the programme notes......

[meast]

20 hours ago, Dunbar said:

 

 

I don't know what any of these sentences mean.

I'm trying to catch up with this thread and I am totally lost, a bit like Leigh have been for most of this season!

Think I'll leave it where it is, Bizarre stuff from the Leythers again.

[Hello]

10 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

Hello, Hello,

Why are Fev my favourites? simply I believe they have the personnel to get the better of Toulouse and even moreso in a one off game where I expect Fev to be very mentally prepared and make it a very physical encounter - wherever it is played, Yes Toulouse have not been defeated and have won all 12 games they have played in all season plus one default by London, Fev have actually won 19 games and as you say one defeat to Toulouse but to describe that has an hammering is a bit OTT, did you watch the game? It was very much closer than the scoreboard suggested. Call it a gut feeling, I don't believe there is that much  between the two teams, but we shall see in the next few weeks.

Secondly also I don't understand what has being better prepared for promotion got to do with a Grand Final encounter? Toulouse will be like any other team if they beat Fev that traversing the divide of the Championship to SL they will have the need to recruit a number of players especially in the replacement of some of their ageing forwards, and dare I say including their go to talisman player Jonathan Ford an exceptionally good Championship player but in my opinion would not be so prominent or effective in SL, the Toulouse strategy and game structure revolves around and is dependent on Mr Ford and he is as an influential individual in any team at any level I can think of, but again I don't think SL is the place he would be given enough time to exhibit those silky skills he possess.

Yes to be fair they've won less games than Fev, but they've not been allowed to play at home all of those teams that they hammered away. As to all teams who are promoted to SL starting off in the same boat, that just doesn't make sense on any level.  If the team winning the championship wins it at a stroll and wins all games easily then they are surely better suited pre any transfers to staying in SL than a team that lost a few but just got across the line.

[clogdance]

14 hours ago, sweaty craiq said:

I very much doubt Tabby is Degsy, or at least the Degsy you mean, the real Degsy was in Switzerland with his mates watching United lose last night.

Stalker  

[UTK]

14 hours ago, The Phantom Horseman said:

I've made this point on here previously, the Fev/Toulouse game wasn't televised and I don't think it's available on YouTube either, and I think a lot of people have seen the score and assumed it was a one-sided affair which definitely wasn't the case.

Toulouse deserved to win on the day, their goal-line defence was definitely better than Fev's, but Fev bombed two or three tries in the first half and turned the ball over 19 times (which of course could happen again if they reach the final, but it could happen to Toulouse who had a similar turnover tally at Oldham).

FWIW the yardage of the teams was about 1,330 Fev, 1,380 Toulouse off almost identical number of play-the-balls.

I do think Toulouse will be favourites if they and Fev are the two teams that make the final, no doubt it's going to be tough for Fev if we do reach the final, but I don't think the game at Fev is quite such a conclusive form guide as people who didn't see that game might think.

 

For what it's worth to anyone who wants to have a look, Toulouse have posted the match in full (and a couple of other matches) on their Youtube channel recently.

I found it and had a look a couple of weeks ago, definitely agree it is by no means a foregone conclusion.

The one comment I would make that is particularly pertinent to the yardage statistic you've rightly identified is that the loss of James Harrison cannot be understated. He was by far the best forward on the park, every time Fev needed a tough carry to save a poor set he delivered a 10-15m run with a quick play the ball to boot. When they were winning the ruck he again came through and skittled defenders for Fev to then play off the back of. They'll definitely need the rest of the pack to lift in order to replace what he delivered that day to be able to compete in the middle third.

[Derwent]

14 hours ago, Hello said:

Yes to be fair they've won less games than Fev, but they've not been allowed to play at home all of those teams that they hammered away. As to all teams who are promoted to SL starting off in the same boat, that just doesn't make sense on any level.  If the team winning the championship wins it at a stroll and wins all games easily then they are surely better suited pre any transfers to staying in SL than a team that lost a few but just got across the line.

Not really. A team that isn’t good enough is still a team that isn’t good enough. There may be varying degrees but the overall outcome would be the same.

[John Drake]

This one has drifted.

Locked.