Ralph Rimmer gives an Interview

[Dave T]

1 minute ago, Spidey said:

Didn’t SL pay double that to Elstone? Why did that achieve?

I was no fan of Elstone as an individual, but he had some things right, in terms of how SL presented itself he was on the right track. It is typical RL though to abandon it early and look to go back. It is almost a carbon copy of what they did 20 years ago. 

The rationale for having an SLE team didn't disappear overnight. 

[Eddie]

51 minutes ago, Death to the Rah Rah's said:

if 175k is his salary then unfortunately you get what you pay for, and that salary is peanuts compared to other CEO renumerations and just shows how small our sport is in comparison to others of similar size.

I reckon Mr Rimmer was the cheapest option when Wood left, but I'm in no doubt there's loads of suitable candidates with drive, ambition and the necessary skills to rebuild the game, but the sad reality is they would want a hell of a lot more than 175k

 

It’s a decent wedge and I imagine not a particularly stressful job either, there are clearly no deliverables. 

[Dave T]

So things that come out of the transcript:

1. Work on RFL strategy taking place, putting players at forefront. Players Union and England RL involved in discussions. 

2. Realignment may be by the end of the year. Confident we are in a good place. 

3. Plenty of mentions of a strategic partner who will have a view on how the game progresses and mentions this with regards to London, Coventry and Ottawa. 

4. They would like more big events in London as part of the strategy. 

5. A Championship broadcast partner will be announced soon. 

 

But the over-arching message here is that they are in the process of securing a strategic partner and they will shape the strategy. It suggests PE is going to be happening soon. I don't see how it can be anything else. It isn't a broadcaster as they talk about working with them with their new partner. 

It's quite a weird conference, but I must admit it has left me a little intrigued. 

[Damien]

44 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I was no fan of Elstone as an individual, but he had some things right, in terms of how SL presented itself he was on the right track. It is typical RL though to abandon it early and look to go back. It is almost a carbon copy of what they did 20 years ago. 

The rationale for having an SLE team didn't disappear overnight. 

I completely agree. The logic of the breakaway was correct and even the improvements to the presentation and additional TV shows showed more than we had seen for 2 decades before. All those things are precisely what adds value to Super League and which then benefits the game as a whole. That is what Super League needed and still needs. 

At the end of the day Elstone was the wrong man. For all his initial talk he failed to fundamentally change anything and was far more conservative than he had led us all to believe initially. That certainly does not mean the idea was wrong.

[The Future is League]

13 hours ago, Damien said:

According to this the highest paid director got £174,000 in 2019, it stands to reason that is Rimmer:

 

 

13 hours ago, Scubby said:

His job is to say it as it is then lead a strategy towards either fixing problems or sparking growth.

Waffle just doesn't cut it.

 

13 hours ago, Jeff Stein said:

I know that verbatim accounts are not particularly fluent at time, but surely we could have a figurehead that can do better than this: “Although the team on the park has suddenly, or not suddenly, after a few seasons, is credible now, and there’s still a majority of Midlands players although I know there’s perhaps five that come down from the north". It is almost as if he was surprised to get a question about Coventry.

He also chucked David Hughes and possibly Hector McNeil under a bus by saying that London Owners haven't listened to the RFL. It seems all the successes in London RL are down to the RFL and all failures down to the clubs. While the issues of the Broncos management are well reported, this suggestion would still lead to eyebrows being raised by anyone who follows all parts of the game down here

 

13 hours ago, idrewthehaggis said:

There is a lot of browny beige in that press photo.

There is a lot of browny beige in that press article.

There is lots of strategic talk without any strategy. 

He seems more than able to consume management speak and then expel an empty residue on the varying heads of the RL family.

Personally I am surprised he survived the dramatic drop in the TV money. And that it also demonstrated how we as a sport have been too reliant on it and there hadn't been other revenue streams developed.

Never mind drops in participation and crowds, pre Covid. 

I might say, it concerns me that the RFL seems to have neither thoughts not support for Salford's stadium issues and only appears to speak about London in hindsight. The sport in the two biggest conurbations. 

But we have to wish him well. The game needs a resourceful and robust central body, whether that is these people or the RFL is another debate.

 

13 hours ago, north yorks trinity said:

Sounds to me like someone hoping to waffle his way to keeping his job and therefore his salary for as long as he can get away with and build up a nice retirement pot in the process. Of course once he's left the job he'll have to look himself in the mirror and also won't want to lose face with friends and business associates so part of his bluster will be as much about convincing himself that his legacy will be one of noble failure let down by circumstances rather than a simple lack of drive, ability, charisma and leadership.

I think we all agree that Rimmer is a waste of space and money, and should do the honourable thing and fall on his sword, but he won't do that as nobody is stupid enough outside of our game to pay him the wages he gets from our game

[The Future is League]

13 hours ago, Man of Kent said:

Leaving aside Rimmer being a gobsh*te, it does sound like there is a master plan with financial backing in the pipeline. Admittedly it’s all rather cryptic, but there are several passages that suggest a major restructure - not just tinkering - is fairly imminent. 

 

13 hours ago, LeeF said:

I’m trying to work out why this interview was embargoed for the last 48 hours as it says virtually nothing and reads like he has just used words to try to hide his lack of action.

The explanation for his “invisibility” over the last 3 months is just a joke.

£200k per year for this 

 

12 hours ago, Ray Cashmere said:

In amongst all the waffle, the line  "I've got plenty of ideas myself but we'll keep them on the shelf" really does stand out in a stark and sombre way given that providing direction is (or should be)  so obviously inherent within his supposed role 

Maybe he's already auditioning for Poet Laureate...

 

2 hours ago, M j M said:

Whether it's fair to Rimmer or not, and it probably is, the game needs new leadership to deal with the current challenges. This Q&A doesn't deal with any of them really but regardless there needs to be a genuine new start and unfortunately that needs to include a change at the top because even if Rimmer is working away behind the scenes the messaging and presentation aspects are appalling and that is just as important a part of his job.

Rimmer does zilch to justify his wages

[Eddie]

1 hour ago, Dave T said:

So things that come out of the transcript:

 

5. A Championship broadcast partner will be announced soon. 

I bet it’s Our League. 

[M j M]

39 minutes ago, The Future is League said:

 

 

 

 

I think we all agree that Rimmer is a waste of space and money, and should do the honourable thing and fall on his sword, but he won't do that as nobody is stupid enough outside of our game to pay him the wages he gets from our game

TBH this sort of response goes in the bucket with the Nigel Wood at the buffet ones. 

Rimmer isn't stupid and has done some good work leading on the pandemic funding from the government where we were miles ahead of other sports. But his form and style of leadership simply isn't what's needed now. We need a charismatic dictator with a genuine understanding of the need to effect changes of some sort who also has some of the back room skills Rimmer by all accounts does. 

[Dave T]

9 minutes ago, Eddie said:

I bet it’s Our League. 

He does go on to say 'and also Our League will broadcast L1" so it suggests not..... 

[gingerjon]

1 hour ago, Damien said:

At the end of the day Elstone was the wrong man. 

My big worry, really, is that it's actually impossible for anyone to be the right man (or woman, or non-binary, genderfluid 'them').

Rather like how we see people who 'fail' inside the RFL do remarkably when given time, money and purpose at the RLWC, I'm coming to the conclusion that the vested interests, small pond mentality and voting structures just mean that it's impossible for anyone to get through everything they need to do.

[John Drake]

9 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

My big worry, really, is that it's actually impossible for anyone to be the right man (or woman, or non-binary, genderfluid 'them').

Rather like how we see people who 'fail' inside the RFL do remarkably when given time, money and purpose at the RLWC, I'm coming to the conclusion that the vested interests, small pond mentality and voting structures just mean that it's impossible for anyone to get through everything they need to do.

I think you've hit the nail on the head there.

For as long as I've been watching the game, fans have complained that whoever is in charge of it is useless, going as far back as David Oxley.

[idrewthehaggis]

1 hour ago, Dave T said:

So things that come out of the transcript:

1. Work on RFL strategy taking place, putting players at forefront. Players Union and England RL involved in discussions. 

It's quite a weird conference, but I must admit it has left me a little intrigued. 

Intriguing in a concerning manner.

The previous largesse of Sky TV money doesn't enthuse me that a similar grand amount of cash - whether it be PE, NRL or another media group- would be spent addressing the real key issues eg participation, rather than RFL staffers pension funds. 

Is the RFL, as it stands, credible,

What strikes me as missing here is ourselves.

Supporters a whispering voice on the periphery. Thrashing around in the dark either on here or on the terraces.

Without a doubt, we as the people who provide the greatest emotional and financial input (match tickets, etc) yet our voice is barely considered.

How this changes I don't know, but it needs to change.

[Dave T]

17 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

My big worry, really, is that it's actually impossible for anyone to be the right man (or woman, or non-binary, genderfluid 'them').

Rather like how we see people who 'fail' inside the RFL do remarkably when given time, money and purpose at the RLWC, I'm coming to the conclusion that the vested interests, small pond mentality and voting structures just mean that it's impossible for anyone to get through everything they need to do.

There is clearly something in this, but I think I am slightly less pessimistic around this. We have seen a crazy amount of change delivered in RL over the last couple of decades (too much imo), but it ranges from terrible stuff to top quality stuff, and a lot of that has depended on who has been in charge. 

Even with limitations that we may have, having a good leader is crucial. 

[Dave T]

2 minutes ago, idrewthehaggis said:

Intriguing in a concerning manner.

The previous largesse of Sky TV money doesn't enthuse me that a similar grand amount of cash - whether it be PE, NRL or another media group- would be spent addressing the real key issues eg participation, rather than RFL staffers pension funds. 

What strikes me missing here is ourselves.

Supporters a whispering voice on the periphery. Thrashing around in the dark either on here or on the terraces.

Without a doubt, we as the people who provide the greatest emotional and financial input (match tickets, etc) yet our voice is barely considered.

How this changes I don't know, but it needs to change.

I partly agree, but tbh I'm not sure what fans will tell them that would be useful. We have had loads of fan surveys in recent years, and they are due to do another. 

It ultimately depends what we are talking about - 'the future of the game' is a huge and abstract thing. Fans may be able to give a good view on things like kick off times, but their view on governance or PE funding is not important. Same goes for players - their views on player welfare is important, but not on how to sell the game to sponsors. Different people have different roles, and it is important that we are focused on what we are asking people and why. 

[M j M]

12 minutes ago, John Drake said:

I think you've hit the nail on the head there.

For as long as I've been watching the game, fans have complained that whoever is in charge of it is useless, going as far back as David Oxley.

Absolutely. Being Rugby League isn't easy and running Rugby League isn't easy.

Lazy analyses of the failings of RFL leaders have always pretended that we're just one good leader away from making it big. Ignoring that for most of the past 40 years the game has been doing ok by its own standards.

However I do still think that at this moment with the current challenges the sport faces and the weaknesses Rimmer has displayed in some aspects that we need a new leader at the RFL. If nothing else all existing people are tarred with being Super League or RFL and for unity there needs to be someone without that baggage.

[gingerjon]

6 minutes ago, Dave T said:

There is clearly something in this, but I think I am slightly less pessimistic around this. We have seen a crazy amount of change delivered in RL over the last couple of decades (too much imo), but it ranges from terrible stuff to top quality stuff, and a lot of that has depended on who has been in charge. 

Even with limitations that we may have, having a good leader is crucial. 

How are you with your Alexander the Great references?

Ultimately, what's needed is someone to stop fiddling with the strands and just cut through the Gordian Knot.

[Damien]

31 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

My big worry, really, is that it's actually impossible for anyone to be the right man (or woman, or non-binary, genderfluid 'them').

Rather like how we see people who 'fail' inside the RFL do remarkably when given time, money and purpose at the RLWC, I'm coming to the conclusion that the vested interests, small pond mentality and voting structures just mean that it's impossible for anyone to get through everything they need to do.

I think that's quite true. I perhaps gave Elstone more time than many and that is because of the positive changes he initially made and what he originally said. He initially seemed to have a vision and seemed to want to make Super League bigger. However as time went on it became very apparent that he wouldn't\couldn't make real change and Super League was just going towards more of the same. He began to pander more and more to existing clubs, probably to protect his position somewhat, and he seemed to retreat more and more to the status quo and heartland clubs. You don't need to pay a SL CEO big money for that and that's basically what we had before the split.

[John Drake]

3 minutes ago, idrewthehaggis said:

Intriguing in a concerning manner.

The previous largesse of Sky TV money doesn't enthuse me that a similar grand amount of cash - whether it be PE, NRL or another media group- would be spent addressing the real key issues eg participation, rather than RFL staffers pension funds. 

What strikes me missing here is ourselves.

Supporters a whispering voice on the periphery. Thrashing around in the dark either on here or on the terraces.

Without a doubt, we as the people who provide the greatest emotional and financial input (match tickets, etc) yet our voice is barely considered.

How this changes I don't know, but it needs to change.

Speaking as someone who used to be involved in a supporters association, the responsibility for getting such an organisation up and running lies with fans themselves.

Someone needs to take a lead and just get on with it, others will follow. Don't wait for someone else to do it, because they are all waiting for someone else to do it too. Consequently, nothing ever happens.

Whoever does take a lead on it, though, should never assume 'fans' are a single entity that think the same on any given topic, or want the game to go in the same direction. Expect a lot of frustration and disagreement!

[Wire quin]

What is it with this sport that we cant put a strategy document together with measurables.

It's as if Rimmer isn't answerable to anyone and therefore why would be put something together that could bring him down. 

[Exiled Townie]

Broadcast deal for Championship and League 1“  Hopefully we’ve got a strong announcement on that to come.  From a broadcast perspective there will be a good deal to watch next year and it should be of a high quality.”

Does "there will be a good deal to watch next year" mean there will be a lot of Championship and League 1 games to watch, or does he mean the there will be good deal, that you can watch, if paying for it. 

[idrewthehaggis]

1 hour ago, John Drake said:

Speaking as someone who used to be involved in a supporters association, the responsibility for getting such an organisation up and running lies with fans themselves.

Someone needs to take a lead and just get on with it, others will follow. Don't wait for someone else to do it, because they are all waiting for someone else to do it too. Consequently, nothing ever happens.

Whoever does take a lead on it, though, should never assume 'fans' are a single entity that think the same on any given topic, or want the game to go in the same direction. Expect a lot of frustration and disagreement!

Responsibility should lie with the supporters. It needs to organically (to use a word) grow itself and resist becoming permanent and moribund as I believe the RFL may well have become. Personally I'd like there to be direct nomination/election/involvement in the day to day running established. Maybe someone will become the FC United/Wimbledon of rugby league soon. 

Nah thinking about it, here is plenty of fans organized in some way to do this. The Rimmer missives hint at their own participation questionnaire/survey.

Fine, but that would only be useful if it asks all the questions not what suits the suits. And the responds have as much meaning and weight as from a dozen club owners.

Listen if Andy Burnham can host a monthly Q and A around Greater Manchester, then our RFL staffers can escape the bunker and go and met us.

And you know talk more to people like you. A bit of transparency and dialogue would go a long way.

In the end, the most sustaining way forward is for all part of the RL family to work together collectively. 

 

 

[DI Keith Fowler]

I'm not as pessimistic as others after reading that. Of course the man has zero charisma and media skills and the whole thing was a bit of a waste of time (very much this could have been an email vibes).

But we have learnt there's a 100% an intention to bring in a partner with a cash injection and some kind of experise to grow the game. It feels like a roll of the dice and to be honest with the state of the game that's exactly what I'd expect. We're not going to get any revelations on this until it's done and signed, it's unreasonable to expect otherwise. 

I know its frustrating and to be honest organising this media call with nothing to announce then having an embargo is comical stuff, but I think it's very much wait and see. Maybe we'll have some idea by Christmas.

[John Drake]

12 minutes ago, idrewthehaggis said:

In the end, the most sustaining way forward is for all part of the RL family to work together collectively. 

Ideally, yes, if the RL family could ever actually agree on anything, of course.

That's the point I was making about assuming 'fans' are some kind of single entity who all have the same opinion on where the game should be heading and how to get there.

These forums alone demonstrate that there are wild variations on that score.

[whatmichaelsays]

2 hours ago, M j M said:

Absolutely. Being Rugby League isn't easy and running Rugby League isn't easy.

Lazy analyses of the failings of RFL leaders have always pretended that we're just one good leader away from making it big. Ignoring that for most of the past 40 years the game has been doing ok by its own standards.

However I do still think that at this moment with the current challenges the sport faces and the weaknesses Rimmer has displayed in some aspects that we need a new leader at the RFL. If nothing else all existing people are tarred with being Super League or RFL and for unity there needs to be someone without that baggage.

Isn't the issue here in people seeing this as an issue of "the leader" rather than "a leadership team"? 

I agree with you - this is a tough gig and a new CEO doesn't necessarily answer the problem. But we (by which I mean the supporter base and commenters on here) don't often talk about key roles beyond the CEO or Chairman and I don't think that's helpful. There's no mention of a Chief Customer Officer, a Chief Marketing Officer, a Chief Digital Officer, a Creative Director or a Media Director. I'm sure many of those roles (or at least, someone to take on the responsibilities of those roles) exist within the RFL, SLE in one guise or another but it seems that many seem to think that Ralph, or whoever is the RFL leader, should be, with the possible exception of a CFO, all of those things in one (hence the Eddie Hearn clamour). 

Again, I think that's something that Elstone did understand with the appointment of Lee Hicken as Creative Director, and some of the content output in the early part of Elstone's tenure was a marked improvement that I'm sure was down to the work of Hicken. 

Sure, all of those people attract a cost, but isn't that the cost of doing business in modern sport? 

[Ackroman]

Imposter syndrome - gotta be.