Promotion & Relegation/Licencing hybrid system

[Spidey]

Just now, JAG said:

I honestly don't know.

There's me getting all smug about something that already exists. 

You claim it exists. Why don’t you find out which country?

[JAG]

20 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Sports fans crave simplicity. It’s another convoluted system that will need explaining to new fans. Fancy getting interested in year 4 of a cycle. Watch your team have a decent season but due to the previous three being awful you get relegated 

There's teams having good consistent seasons denied promotion by boom and bust clubs or convoluted play-off systems. 

Super League clubs have in the past been guilty on the past of only concentrating on not finishing last in the table and that's it.

Newly promoted Championship clubs have one season to bridge the considerable gap between Championship and Super League. It's not fair and doesn't require stability.

There's too much dead weight in Super League and too much potential squandered in The Championship.

[JAG]

4 minutes ago, Spidey said:

You claim it exists. Why don’t you find out which country?

The previous comments allegedly say it already exits. I have no knowledge.

It's really not such a fair fetched or difficult idea.

[Spidey]

2 minutes ago, JAG said:

The previous comments allegedly say it already exits. I have no knowledge.

It's really not such a fair fetched or difficult idea.

It’s obscure. Bit like the 8s

[Spidey]

5 minutes ago, JAG said:

There's too much dead weight in Super League and too much potential squandered in The Championship.

Who are dead weight and who have potential?

[JAG]

46 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Who are dead weight and who have potential?

Haha! Asking me to name and shame.

The Championship: Toulouse, York, Newcastle, London, Whitehaven, Featherstone, Halifax.

Not including Bradford Bulls as I feel I that would be bias on my part.

Super League: I won't say but ask yourself which clubs haven't finished in the top 6 more than twice in the last 10 years? Which team's highest ever placing is 5th in 22 years of playing SL?

"Dead weight" is an unfair description. I only wish for every RL club to prosper but I don't see why some clubs get to continue to be an "also ran" in SL when Championship clubs could with SL status do so much more.

Edited September 18, 2021 by JAG

[JAG]

39 minutes ago, Spidey said:

It’s obscure. Bit like the 8s

Nothing like the eights. It's not decided over one season. It's much more considered and thorough. You can't get promoted/relegated on one season's performance.

Doesn't have to be four teams it can be three if so desired. It's flexible.

[Spidey]

11 minutes ago, JAG said:

Nothing like the eights. It's not decided over one season. It's much more considered and thorough. You can't get promoted/relegated on one season's performance.

Doesn't have to be four teams it can be three if so desired. It's flexible.

Let me clarify for you. It’s an obscure concept, like the 8s

[idrewthehaggis]

Although I have been a long term lurker, I can not totally recall every "fan plan" suggested as alternative structures for RL.

Anyone wishing to add them together? We have the JAG angle here, then Rimmer's reckoning, probably scores of wishful desiring for "Big City" franchises. Any more. Does John want to cubby hole them into one sticky thread called "The Big Ideas?"

Edited September 18, 2021 by idrewthehaggis

[fighting irish]

14 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Let me clarify for you. It’s an obscure concept, like the 8s

Ah clarity. Let's have it. 

[JAG]

9 minutes ago, idrewthehaggis said:

Although I have been a long term lurker, I can not totally recall every "fan plan" suggested as alternative structures for RL.

Anyone wishing to add them together? We have the JAG angle here, then Rimmer's reckoning, probably scores of wishful desiring for "Big City" franchises. Any more. Does John want to cubby hole them into one sticky thread called "The Big Ideas?"

I by no means think this is a silver bullet answer to all RL's woes but I think it's worth meaningful consideration. 

Maybe it's becasue there's a sense of a lack of leadership in RL that I felt the need to even concoct such a system.

[JAG]

1 hour ago, Spidey said:

Let me clarify for you. It’s an obscure concept, like the 8s

It's not that obscure and during this thread found out it's not even original concept.

[Spidey]

1 minute ago, JAG said:

It's not that obscure and during this thread found out it's not even original concept.

One example in the 10,000's of sporting leagues in the world definitely makes it obscure, and nobody has named exactly where this example is

 

[bowes]

1 hour ago, Spidey said:

One example in the 10,000's of sporting leagues in the world definitely makes it obscure, and nobody has named exactly where this example is

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Argentine_Primera_División#Relegation

It's in that totally obscure footballing nation called Argentina

[Spidey]

3 minutes ago, bowes said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Argentine_Primera_División#Relegation

It's in that totally obscure footballing nation called Argentina

Thanks. I’ll have a read 

[Spidey]

1 minute ago, Spidey said:

Thanks. I’ll have a read 

 It’s not quite the same as teams can get relegated every season, but is certainly different.  I’d still describe it as obscure as it’s the only sporting league that’s been highlighted using such a system

[JAG]

1 hour ago, Spidey said:

 It’s not quite the same as teams can get relegated every season, but is certainly different.  I’d still describe it as obscure as it’s the only sporting league that’s been highlighted using such a system

I didn't even know that, nice to see it's not such a radical idea. No league system is going to fit the demands of UK rugby League exactly but there's an overlap of ideas that I think is worth exploring.

[Dallas Mead]

I’m Spartacus.

[fighting irish]

4 minutes ago, Dallas Mead said:

I’m Spartacus.

I am Spartacus.

[JAG]

Imagine watching a game toward the end of the 4th season where not only could your team beat a rival in the battle for play-off places or even advance in the play-offs themselves but by winning that game your team are awarded a trophy and crowned the greatest team of the Era.

How many supporters would want to be there to witness it?

Imagine if that game was the Grand Final itself. (Very remote change I admit)

[Mumby Magic]

21 hours ago, JAG said:

There's teams having good consistent seasons denied promotion by boom and bust clubs or convoluted play-off systems. 

Super League clubs have in the past been guilty on the past of only concentrating on not finishing last in the table and that's it.

Newly promoted Championship clubs have one season to bridge the considerable gap between Championship and Super League. It's not fair and doesn't require stability.

There's too much dead weight in Super League and too much potential squandered in The Championship.

Thats the nature of sport.

[JAG]

3 minutes ago, Mumby Magic said:

Thats the nature of sport.

If that's the nature of sport then there's nothing wrong with Rugby League and there's nothing to complain about, change or adjust becasue it's all going perfectly well which is all I keep hearing all the time.

[idrewthehaggis]

SoJAG, I added together the league standings from the first period of licencing from 2009-13.

No surprize then that Wigan triumph as "Team of the Era."

In descending order goes Castleford (88 points), Bradford (87), Wakefield (86), Salford (67) and then London/Quins (63).

Now Celtic did not finish the 13 season. They had gained 38 points from their three seasons. Their replacement Widnes only collected six points, which both overall and on average places them bottom.

The Championship (with a simplified points system and averaged over the respective three or four seasons played by each club) placed Featherstone top, followed by Leigh, then Halifax separated by one point, then Widnes and then Sheffield.

The question then JAG is if this scenario repeated itself, how do you deal with any expiring club when you comply the four seasons? And the replacement club, which like Widnes played one dismal season. 

I do like the "Era" prize. That and say a fair play era award. Hey why not for players too.

Edited September 19, 2021 by idrewthehaggis

[JAG]

56 minutes ago, idrewthehaggis said:

SoJAG, I added together the league standings from the first period of licencing from 2009-13.

No surprize then that Wigan triumph as "Team of the Era."

In descending order goes Castleford (88 points), Bradford (87), Wakefield (86), Salford (67) and then London/Quins (63).

Now Celtic did not finish the 13 season. They had gained 38 points from their three seasons. Their replacement Widnes only collected six points, which both overall and on average places them bottom.

The Championship (with a simplified points system and averaged over the respective three or four seasons played by each club) placed Featherstone top, followed by Leigh, then Halifax separated by one point, then Widnes and then Sheffield.

The question then JAG is if this scenario repeated itself, how do you deal with any expiring club when you comply the four seasons? And the replacement club, which like Widnes played one dismal season. 

I do like the "Era" prize. That and say a fair play era award. Hey why not for players too.

Good question. 

I believe that given a time frame of 4 year cycles there would be more evidence for which teams are not financially stable enough to sustain their place either in SL or any league for that matter.

Celtic Crusaders are a great example of a team that was fast tracked too soon into SL. Formed in 2005, played NL2 for 2 years, NL1 for a season then awarded SL status in 2009 only to go bust in 2011. That's all three RL divisions in just 4 years.

If a team were to go bust in SL during a 4 year cycle I would suggest the top placed team in the Championship Era league replace them the following season and reduce the number of teams promoted overall at the end of that cycle by one.

The team that is replacing the bust team in SL could be exempt from relegation if they're already 2 seasons or more into that particular cycle. For instance if we are one season away from the end of a 4 year cycle.

OR

An average points per season formula could be used if the replacement team is in Super League for 2 seasons or more? For instance if we are 3 seasons away from a the end of a 4 year cycle.

That's the kind of scrutiny I was looking for, thank you.

[idrewthehaggis]

No problem JAG, a bit of grown up discussion is what we all need these days.

So if your suggestion was enacted between 2009-13, then it would have been Celtic and London/Quins replaced by Fev and Leigh for 2014-18.

I will let you calculate for that "era" and the following one currently ongoing.